MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[badgerwarhawk]

It isn't that unusual for a technical foul to be called over a seemingly inoffensive comment.  Officials are human beings and you can bitch, disrespect and call them out for only so long before they reach their limit.  When they do it doesn't take a whole lot for them to decide enough is enough.  Also the rule of thumb is that officials will listen to head coaches but assistants and players are to be seen and not heard.  I don't know the circumstances in this particular game and it's always possible the official did overreact but I've been around long enough to know that it isn't always the specific comment that causes the reaction.   

[John Gleich]

Markerickson,

Speaking of technicals, and Greg you may be able to add to this, last Saturday at the NPU vs Illinois Tech game the refs had three people thrown out of the the gym for what it seemed like foul language. Not sure of the exact reason but they were removed.  Any insight on that?

I spoke last night at the game to one of the North Park women who got tossed out of Keating on Saturday. She laughed and told me that one of them, a member of the NPU women's team, had yelled out something to the effect of, "You missed that foul on #32!" as the ref ran past. No foul language, no questioning of the ref's eyesight or knowledge of the game or family heritage, or anything like that. Just a remark that he had missed the call.

Some refs have thinner skins than others. I guess that this guy's skin can be described as "microscopic".

I got a technical for a single hand clap one time (granted, while I was coaching, not while I was sitting in the stands).

Coaching my junior high team, one of my players boxed out a three point shooter (after allowing the shooter to land... it wasn't blatant, malicious or a foul in any sense) and he was called for a foul. I voiced my disapproval.

After the three free throws on the other end, we came down and that same player took a 3 of his own and was crosschecked into our bench. I stood up, shrugged at the official (with an incredulous look on my face) but said nothing. As I sat down, I clapped my hands. And he slapped me with the T.

The next year, I got tossed from a game when, in the second half, the foul count was 17 against us, and 1 against the other team (and that one foul was when one of my kids got clothes-lined on a breakaway). After the fourth straight trip that they called a touch foul on us AND the player made the basket, I questioned the legitimacy of four straight fouls on four straight trips when he clearly wasn't impeded enough to make the shot. The ref made a snide remark out of the side of his mouth as he went back down the court, to which I replied "If you have something to say, say it to my face!"

I might have earned that one.

I got the second one when, mere seconds later, after he had walked over to the scorers table, I simply asked "Can we discuss this now?"

I didn't earn the second one. With the second one, he proved that my initial assertion of the game being called unfairly was correct.

The final foul count in that game was greater than 20 fouls against us and 2 fouls against them.  They had 6 players. Three of them were fourth graders.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

My brother has a great story in college... he was one of the college's biggest fans and went apparently to nearly all home events - even plenty of away games. He had played a lot of sports and was pretty good though high school, but instead of playing... he became a diehard fan.

I say that because during a soccer game he was apparently being very boisterous and he and his friends were riding the official(s) hard. Suddenly the ref blows the game dead... walks to the sideline and shows a red card. My brother and friends have no idea what player just got carded... but a short time later some event staff walked over and told them they had to leave. The ref had carded THEM!

I still laugh at the thought.

[joehakes]

Because of the NCAA Convention, I watched the entire Illinois Tech/North Park game on my phone in the Nashville airport.  I saw the official point to the stands and stop the game. Our event manager came over to tell the young lady that she had to leave, per the official's instruction. Her friends went with her and it looked like they were watching through the glass entry doors.  The event manager told me that they were nothing but polite and didn't seem to be causing any problem.  If Greg's narrative is accurate (and it usually is), it sounds like the official over-reacted. Our bleachers are not right up on the court so it's not like there is too intense a situation most of the time. I feel badly that she made the effort to be there to support NPU but couldn't enjoy the game comfortably.

It really was a great game for the Illinois Tech program.  We appreciate being able to schedule great DIII competition and compete.  We hope that everyone has a great time when they come to the game.  We have made quite a few improvements to Keating Sports Center to make it a better place to play and watch. 

And now, back to the arguments about whether Seibring really travels or not....

[petemcb]

He does.

[petemcb]

But he's not alone these days.

[petemcb]

Here's my contribution to the strangest/funniest coach receiving a T inventory of stories:  Fifteen or twenty years ago, the Maine East varsity coach, Ken Sartini, was a fiery, opinionated, contentious coach who never had an opinion that went unstated.  In the course of a game where we were getting pummeled on the scoreboard and, to a lesser extent, on the court, and after a particularly strange call against us by the worst of the officials, Ken walked right over to where the offending ref was standing by our bench and asked him, "hey, can I get a T for what I'm thinking?"  The ref looks at him and says, "of course not", at which point Ken says "OK, I"m thinking you suck".  Whistle blows, T formation with the hands in Sartini's face.  Free throws and ball out of bounds.  That was Ken's favorite T of many well-earned technicals over the years.

[AndOne]

And of course we have the CCIW coach who, a few years ago, was hit with a T for vigorously protesting a call.
What was hilarious was during the coach's rant about the personal foul, for which he earned the T, he bellowed that his players "don't know how to foul." For proof he added "because I don't teach fouling in practice."      

[Gregory Sager]

It isn't that unusual for a technical foul to be called over a seemingly inoffensive comment.  Officials are human beings and you can bitch, disrespect and call them out for only so long before they reach their limit.  When they do it doesn't take a whole lot for them to decide enough is enough.  Also the rule of thumb is that officials will listen to head coaches but assistants and players are to be seen and not heard.  I don't know the circumstances in this particular game and it's always possible the official did overreact but I've been around long enough to know that it isn't always the specific comment that causes the reaction.   

Agreed, but in this case it wasn't a head coach or an assistant coach or a player or players who were ejected. It was a female fan who was sitting courtside who was tossed out because she objected, in thoroughly mild language, to a call made by the ref. The female fan in question is a veteran player for the North Park women's basketball team, and she therefore is well aware of how to register a complaint with an official without getting T-boned or tossed out for it. But, still, she wasn't even a player in that game. She was a fan, for crying out loud.

I have no reason to doubt the NPU student who told me this story. The four women sat there for a long time after the ref had pointed at the supposedly offending NPU fan because, as I said, they couldn't believe that someone could get thrown out of a gym for saying something so innocuous. As Joe said, when the IIT event manager finally came over to ask them to leave, the four of them got up without a word and walked out peacefully. Pete and I were sitting on the other side of the gym and saw the whole thing take place, and we were utterly confused by it, too.

Unfortunately, the IIT live-stats operator neglected to put the names of the officials in the box score, so I couldn't identify our thin-skinned friend in stripes. I didn't recognize him from any CCIW games, but that doesn't mean that he's not in the CCIW officiating pool. I know a great many CCIW refs by name, but not all of them, and occasionally I see one that I don't remember seeing before. (I don't know if IIT uses the CCIW's officiating pool, as Chicago does, but since there's a great deal of overlap between the CCIW, the NACC, and the MWC in terms of their officiating pools, it's always possible that Mr. Touchy is a CCIW ref as well.)

My brother has a great story in college... he was one of the college's biggest fans and went apparently to nearly all home events - even plenty of away games. He had played a lot of sports and was pretty good though high school, but instead of playing... he became a diehard fan.

I say that because during a soccer game he was apparently being very boisterous and he and his friends were riding the official(s) hard. Suddenly the ref blows the game dead... walks to the sideline and shows a red card. My brother and friends have no idea what player just got carded... but a short time later some event staff walked over and told them they had to leave. The ref had carded THEM!

I still laugh at the thought.

I've never heard of soccer fans being red-carded. Can you imagine if this happened in Europe or South America? A ref would have to red-card entire sections of the stadium.

And now, back to the arguments about whether Seibring really travels or not....

He does.

But he's not alone these days.

Where is Berki when we need him? We require an expert opinion on the matter.

[robberki]

the art of out-slowing someone occasionally looks like a travel.

[markerickson]

Berki knew how to use a pivot foot in conjunction with a pump fake or go low shoulder - none of which I saw from the player in question.

[iwumichigander]

Berki knew how to use a pivot foot in conjunction with a pump fake or go low shoulder - none of which I saw from the player in question.

Yeah, but watching Berki was like seeing an entire game replay in ultra slow motion

[4samuy]

If anyone wants to watch an awfully played and refereed basketball game that could have implications in the Central Region, tune into the UAA.

Halftime

WashU                26
Carnegie Mellon.  23

[Gregory Sager]

Berki knew how to use a pivot foot in conjunction with a pump fake or go low shoulder - none of which I saw from the player in question.

Yeah, but watching Berki was like seeing an entire game replay in ultra slow motion

Well, like Rob said, in the right hands (or feet) slowness is an art form.

[Gregory Sager]

Ryan's column this week deals with schools that are switching leagues, and Carroll is one of the schools upon which he focuses. Granted, Ryan doesn't make too huge of a fuss over the fact that Carroll is currently in the middle of the CCIW pack in men's basketball, and he does cite how woeful the women's version of Pioneers basketball is on the hardwood. But I think that there ought to be a strong wait-and-see sense to any story written about Carroll's move back to the CCIW. The fact of the matter is that the early returns haven't been good at all for Carroll in the school's inaugural fall and winter as a re-minted CCIW member, aside from the current 5-4, tied-for-third men's basketball team.

Yes, I know that the school has pumped money into refurbishing Van Male (I took an extended walk-through of the building this fall), and that Carroll is also getting ambitious in terms of size and academic programming. But it still remains to be seen whether Carroll's plan to hit Chicagoland heavily in recruiting is going to work. It's clearly an uphill battle to recruit on Carroll's side of the Cheddar Curtain, because more often than not a CCIW-quality Wisconsin high-school athlete is going to choose a WIAC school over the massive student-loan debt of Carroll or Carthage. Carthage has made it work over the years by enticing north suburban and northwest suburban Chicagolanders over the border through their policy of matching Illinois student aid, but even so I suspect that one of the big reasons why that's worked for Carthage is because the school is barely across the state line. If you live in Mount Prospect or Skokie, for example, Carthage is just as close to you as North Central is. Carroll, which is not only in a Milwaukee suburb but is in a western Milwaukee suburb that is not directly accessible to Chicagoland by interstate highway, isn't quite as convenient -- it's an hour and a half from Mount Prospect and Skokie. It's just far enough away to make the concept of using Chicago suburbs as a focal point for recruiting student-athletes a bit of a gamble for Carroll.

Carroll's track record the first time around in this league (1955 to 1992) was not good. The Pioneers tended to do pretty poorly across the board, and the school wasn't able to keep up with the CCIW's athletics facilities arms race. Rather than just trying to muddle through with what it had, in the manner of likewise under-resourced North Park and Elmhurst, the Carroll administration elected to bail out of the arms race entirely in the early '90s and opt for the less-competitive Midwest Conference. The Carroll president at the time disguised what was really a white-flag move by couching it as an academic step up, making comments to the press about how the academically superior MWC was a better fit for Carroll with regard to scholarly pursuits. You can imagine how CCIW administrators felt about that, so there was a lot of bad blood between Carroll and its former sister schools for a long time. Of course, with the turnover in administrations at every school involved (including Carroll), that eventually became water under the bridge. Now we're hearing, via Ryan's column, that Carroll feels that the CCIW's academic prestige is a selling point (at least from the point of view of Paul Combs).

It's an interesting situation. But the jury is definitely still out on whether or not Carroll can compete in the CCIW across the board -- or, long-term, in men's basketball.