MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

WOW!   Shauers post game comments specifically called out the Augustana football players for some of the comments made during the game. He did congratulate Giovanine and the players, but I didn't know he had such a good grasp of the Augie football roster.  Very strange.

Well you have to hand it to the Augustana football players for getting after the Wheaton basketball team.    They sure haven't done anything against the Wheaton football team in the last 10 years.  Maybe next they will go after the North Central softball team.

Nicely played.  +k

[Hightops]

WOW!   Shauers post game comments specifically called out the Augustana football players for some of the comments made during the game. He did congratulate Giovanine and the players, but I didn't know he had such a good grasp of the Augie football roster.  Very strange.

Well, to be fair to Mike Schauer, it's usually not hard to determine whether or not a group of college-aged males are football players, even if you don't know who they are.

He really did lay into those Augie football players, though. He said that he complained to Grey about them, and that he's going to give Chris Martin a phone call about them, too. I didn't have the sound up on that game the whole way through (I got tired of the Wheaton broadcasters referring to Dylan "Sore-tee-ya"), but I did hear a popular barnyard epithet chanted a few times from what sounded like a group of males not too far from the camera mic after calls went against Augie.

My question would be this - The game was played on their home court.  If things were that bad why wasn't game management more proactive in dealing with it OR the coach quietly asking at halftime to have the situation addressed?  Making statements about if after the game only makes a coach look like a sore loser.

[KaiSwanson]

Augustana 59
Wheaton 57

Too much Orange in blue for the Orange and Blue.

I've been following you folks for years, and this is one of the best one-liners I've seen. The Senior Vikings salute you, Greg!

[AndOne]

Didn't the Wheaton authorities call the local police to have some "unruly" North Park students removed from King Arena a few years ago?
What prevented them from a repeat performance if the Augie fans were acting so badly?

[Gregory Sager]

WOW!   Shauers post game comments specifically called out the Augustana football players for some of the comments made during the game. He did congratulate Giovanine and the players, but I didn't know he had such a good grasp of the Augie football roster.  Very strange.

Well, to be fair to Mike Schauer, it's usually not hard to determine whether or not a group of college-aged males are football players, even if you don't know who they are.

He really did lay into those Augie football players, though. He said that he complained to Grey about them, and that he's going to give Chris Martin a phone call about them, too. I didn't have the sound up on that game the whole way through (I got tired of the Wheaton broadcasters referring to Dylan "Sore-tee-ya"), but I did hear a popular barnyard epithet chanted a few times from what sounded like a group of males not too far from the camera mic after calls went against Augie.

My question would be this - The game was played on their home court.  If things were that bad why wasn't game management more proactive in dealing with it OR the coach quietly asking at halftime to have the situation addressed?  Making statements about if after the game only makes a coach look like a sore loser.

This is a fair point. I confess that I'm a little nonplussed at how Wheaton handles these situations in King. In years past, WC's game management staff has pretty carefully monitored North Park students in King who were, although loud and vocal, completely non-vulgar. I still shake my head at the memory of the occasion about a decade or so ago in which a group of NPU students formed a pyramid on the floor out of bounds, off to the side of the Vikings bench, during a full timeout -- and Wheaton reacted not only by making a crowd-control announcement over the P.A. but by calling in the Wheaton Police Department, which sent four officers in full uniform over to King in the second half to stand at attention in front of the NPU students in the west-end stands for the rest of the game. It was the ultimate example of overkill. Heck, all they did was make a pyramid, for crying out loud.

If I was the paranoid type, I'd say that Wheaton has a double standard here. But I think it's just a matter of Wheaton's game management being a little more relaxed nowadays. Perhaps it shouldn't be as relaxed as it's gotten, which goes back to your point that perhaps Mike Schauer's complaint should be more directed at his own school's game management staff than at anybody from Augustana.

[Gregory Sager]

Didn't the Wheaton authorities call the local police to have some "unruly" North Park students removed from King Arena a few years ago?
What prevented them from a repeat performance if the Augie fans were acting so badly?

Holy cow. Nice memory, Mark ... and you beat me to the trigger by about a half-minute, too.

[Gregory Sager]

Highlight of the night so far: Bosko Djurickovic and John Baines yelling at each other nose-to-nose at the scorer's table.

I'm going to have to pull that video up. Here I thought the Paul Combs-Todd Raridon exchange last night was the highlight. Raridon was unhappy about a call at the same time as the officials found a wet spot on the floor and wanted a towel to wipe it up. Carroll's manager went out to wipe it, as did Raridon, at which point Combs took a shot at Raridon along the lines of "3000 students at your school and you don't even have a manager!" Raridon fired back something about his manager filming the game upstairs. After the floor was wiped, Combs thanked his manager, and Raridon chirped at him, "I was out here too, are you going to thank me?" Combs answered in the negative, and there a brief moment where I thought I'd have our first coach fight. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, but it was pretty chippy last night.

That makes three angry encounters between CCIW head coaches over the past year. Ironically, for as often as we censure Grey Giovanine about his temper, he wasn't involved in any of them.

[WUPHF]

I still shake my head at the memory of the occasion about a decade or so ago in which a group of NPU students formed a pyramid on the floor out of bounds, off to the side of the Vikings bench, during a full timeout -- and Wheaton reacted not only by making a crowd-control announcement over the P.A. but by calling in the Wheaton Police Department, which sent four officers in full uniform over to King in the second half to stand at attention in front of the NPU students in the west-end stands for the rest of the game. It was the ultimate example of overkill. Heck, all they did was make a pyramid, for crying out loud.

I so wish I could have seen that...

I bet those guys still laugh about that incident when they get together.  The overreaction by Wheaton and the Wheaton Police Department likely just added to the quality of the memories even if it detracted from the experience.

[hopefan]

Highlight of the night so far: Bosko Djurickovic and John Baines yelling at each other nose-to-nose at the scorer's table.

I'm going to have to pull that video up. Here I thought the Paul Combs-Todd Raridon exchange last night was the highlight. Raridon was unhappy about a call at the same time as the officials found a wet spot on the floor and wanted a towel to wipe it up. Carroll's manager went out to wipe it, as did Raridon, at which point Combs took a shot at Raridon along the lines of "3000 students at your school and you don't even have a manager!" Raridon fired back something about his manager filming the game upstairs. After the floor was wiped, Combs thanked his manager, and Raridon chirped at him, "I was out here too, are you going to thank me?" Combs answered in the negative, and there a brief moment where I thought I'd have our first coach fight. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, but it was pretty chippy last night.

That makes three angry encounters between CCIW head coaches over the past year. Ironically, for as often as we censure Grey Giovanine about his temper, he wasn't involved in any of them.

aaah, but Coach G still nearly broke the scorer's table in half (or his wrist), when I saw him in action vs Wash U....

[WUPHF]

I wish that particular incident by Giovanine had been better recorded on the video.  I listened to the archive and you could barely hear it, but it sure was loud in the gym...

That road trip was so worth it...

[Gregory Sager]

I still shake my head at the memory of the occasion about a decade or so ago in which a group of NPU students formed a pyramid on the floor out of bounds, off to the side of the Vikings bench, during a full timeout -- and Wheaton reacted not only by making a crowd-control announcement over the P.A. but by calling in the Wheaton Police Department, which sent four officers in full uniform over to King in the second half to stand at attention in front of the NPU students in the west-end stands for the rest of the game. It was the ultimate example of overkill. Heck, all they did was make a pyramid, for crying out loud.

I so wish I could have seen that...

I bet those guys still laugh about that incident when they get together.  The overreaction by Wheaton and the Wheaton Police Department likely just added to the quality of the memories even if it detracted from the experience.

Trust me, it's just one of the many amusing chapters in that lengthy tome in NPU's Brandel Library called Things That Make Us Poke Fun at Wheaton.

(In fairness, if Wheaton had a similar book about North Park, it'd be mostly centered around scoreboard results. But, then again, there would never be such a book, because nobody at Wheaton would care enough to either compile it or to read it.)

aaah, but Coach G still nearly broke the scorer's table in half (or his wrist), when I saw him in action vs Wash U....

I sure hope that he isn't taking up martial arts. He already has the energy level of Jackie Chan. The idea of Grey Giovanine morphing into Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon is pretty disquieting.

[augiefan]

I was at the Augie Wheaton game last night but was not sitting that close to the "rowdy" Augie fans. However, I  do not feel their behavior was that over the top. Certainly some high school level immaturity demonstrated, but I do not believe it had any impact on the players or the result of the game. Perhaps Coach Schauer was a little thin skinned after a narrow loss and over reacted.

I do agree that if these were Augie FB players, they would have been better served staying home in Rock Island and working on improving their FB skills. Right now the Augie FB program is an embarrassment given the school's rich history as a FB power.

As to the basketball game Wheaton even in down years always seems to give Augie a tough game. Augie barely beat them in Rock Island. Based on last night's performance, it is clear the loss of Wofford is pretty major. Wofford's stats for the year are a little deceiving, as his performance in his last few conference games exceeded his numbers in the nonconference games. If some one else does not step up besides Orange and Sortillo, Augie is not likely to win any of their 3 remaining road games.

The code of silence on Wofford's dismissal or personal decision to quit the team is holding? Does anyone have any new info on the reason he is gone?  He reportedly is still attending classes and remains a student at Augie. Given the time of year it would not appear to be an academic issue. I hope it is something that can be worked out, so he can return to the team next year, but the secrecy surrounding the way this has played out does not indicate that is likely to happen.

[Gregory Sager]

I was at the Augie Wheaton game last night but was not sitting that close to the "rowdy" Augie fans. However, I  do not feel their behavior was that over the top. Certainly some high school level immaturity demonstrated, but I do not believe it had any impact on the players or the result of the game. Perhaps Coach Schauer was a little thin skinned after a narrow loss and over reacted.

That's certainly a plausible explanation. All I could hear from them on the webcast were "Bullsh*t!" and "Airball!" chants, the latter of which were directed at Aston Francis. That doesn't mean that they didn't say anything worse, of course, since as I said I had to turn down the sound on the Wheaton student broadcasters. (Where are Bryan Holmgren and Paul Carr when you need them?!) 

I do agree that if these were Augie FB players, they would have been better served staying home in Rock Island and working on improving their FB skills. Right now the Augie FB program is an embarrassment given the school's rich history as a FB power.

Given my past experiences with Augie football players, there's a good chance that they would have been better served not being overserved last night, if you take my meaning.

Still, I give them credit for making that five-hour round-trip trek in the middle of the week. Like I said, Augie students don't seem to do that very often these days.

As to the basketball game Wheaton even in down years always seems to give Augie a tough game. Augie barely beat them in Rock Island. Based on last night's performance, it is clear the loss of Wofford is pretty major. Wofford's stats for the year are a little deceiving, as his performance in his last few conference games exceeded his numbers in the nonconference games. If some one else does not step up besides Orange and Sortillo, Augie is not likely to win any of their 3 remaining road games.

It seems to me that Giovanine is trying to fill the hole in the rotation left by Wofford by plugging in a new player, rather than redistributing those minutes among his other rotation players. Against Carthage he went bigger and used senior Michael Hoekstra, whose playing time had been negligible up to that point; Hoekstra got 15 minutes and didn't contribute much for Augie in the loss. Last night Giovanine went smaller and used sophomore Joe Kellen, who likewise hadn't been used much in prior games. He didn't have much of an impact, either.

The code of silence on Wofford's dismissal or personal decision to quit the team is holding? Does anyone have any new info on the reason he is gone?  He reportedly is still attending classes and remains a student at Augie. Given the time of year it would not appear to be an academic issue. I hope it is something that can be worked out, so he can return to the team next year, but the secrecy surrounding the way this has played out does not indicate that is likely to happen.

As I said, the fact that Augustana's director of communications issued that statement that Giovanine read and the Quad Cities online newspaper printed seemed to indicate that this was not a voluntary departure from the roster on Wofford's part. That is further supported by the AC @ WC game story in today's qconline.com, which says that Wofford "was removed from the team last Friday for unspecified school violations." That leaves us with something serious enough to force his dismissal from the team but not serious enough to get him expelled.

It's all 100% speculation, but I keep wondering if there was some sort of second chapter to the George Edlund incident from last summer.

Giovanine certainly agrees with you that the loss of Wofford is drastic, as he described Wofford as "our key guy" in the qconline.com game story. He also called Chrishawn Orange "the best player in our conference"; one thing I've noticed about Giovanine is that he's never shy about talking up his players to the point of hyperbole. That may be one of the big reasons why his players love him so much.

[Gregory Sager]

I've been giving some thought as to what sort of record it usually takes to finish in the top four in a nine-team league that plays a double round-robin, so I've looked at the previous 25-year span (1967-68 through 1991-92) in which the CCIW consisted of nine teams. This is what I found:

* In 22 of those 25 seasons, a double-digit win total (i.e., 10-6 or better) was good enough to get a team into the CCIW tournament, if it had been held back then. The exceptions were 1967-68 (two teams tied for fourth at 10-6 apiece), 1977-78 (again, two teams tied for fourth at 10-6), and the wonderfully anomalous 1982-83 season, aka The Most Competitive Season Ever (four teams tied for second at 11-5 apiece, one game behind 12-4 champion Millikin). In each of those three cases there would've been a double-digit-win team left out in the cold.

* In five of those 25 seasons, a 9-7 record was good enough to do the trick. In fact, in 1984-85 two 9-7 teams tied for third, so both would've made it in. Interestingly, there was never a 9-7 tie for fourth place.

* In five of those 25 seasons, an 8-8 record would've gotten a team into the mythical CCIW tourney. However, in three of those five instances, there was a two-way tie for fourth at 8-8, so whichever .500 team didn't own the tiebreaker would've seen its season come to an end then and there.

* In one weird season, 1988-89, the two teams that tied for fourth finished with 7-9 records. (The bottom six was very bunched up in that campaign, with two 6-10 teams tied for sixth, a 5-11 team in eighth, and the last-place team sitting at a relatively competent 4-12.) That is the only instance in which a team with a losing CCIW record would've made the league tourney, had it been held back then.

* Therefore, there were 11 seasons out of 25 in which a single-digit-winning team would've made the tournament.

Twenty-five seasons is quite a big data pool, so this gives us at least a little bit of a read on what it'll take to get into the tourney this season.

[Mugsy]

I still shake my head at the memory of the occasion about a decade or so ago in which a group of NPU students formed a pyramid on the floor out of bounds, off to the side of the Vikings bench, during a full timeout -- and Wheaton reacted not only by making a crowd-control announcement over the P.A. but by calling in the Wheaton Police Department, which sent four officers in full uniform over to King in the second half to stand at attention in front of the NPU students in the west-end stands for the rest of the game. It was the ultimate example of overkill. Heck, all they did was make a pyramid, for crying out loud.

I so wish I could have seen that...

I bet those guys still laugh about that incident when they get together.  The overreaction by Wheaton and the Wheaton Police Department likely just added to the quality of the memories even if it detracted from the experience.

I probably wouldn't lump the Wheaton Police Department into the overreaction category.  They were likely just responding to a "disturbance at a public event" phone call.

When I was a junior at Wheaton there was a 2 hour scrum in a vacant lot on campus between 75-125 male students fighting over the "senior bench."  It will take too long to describe the history of the senior bench while at work (and most of you would care less), but suffice to say it was a long standing tradition and status issue based on which class possessed the bench. 

I'm sure to anyone passing by it might have been perceived as a riot with a hoard of male students, cars and trucks backed onto the lawn jockeying for position, shirts torn off some guys, bloody noses from inadvertent elbows, etc...  Someone called the Wheaton Police and they showed up with riot trucks.  An officer walked up and asked what was going on.  When we told him, he shook his head, mumbled something under his breathe, and promptly left. The melay went on for another 30 minutes...