MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Greek Tragedy]

Re: CCIW teams and their SoS

I am really surprised to see how low the SoS's of some CCIW teams are. I mean, just looking at the Central Regional Rankings, a disadvantage for sure.

[Gregory Sager]

As for the New England teams including the NESAC it is what it is.  I lived in New England for several years.  The travel problems for New England teams are much more difficult than most conferences.

For the Maine teams, perhaps. But the rest of the region is very geographically compact -- Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and a small sprinkling of schools in southern Vermont and New Hampshire that're mostly close to the Mass border. By D3 standards, Northeast Region teams are cheek-by-jowl in terms of proximity to each other. Well over 90% of the entire Northeast Region's travel footprint fits within the CCIW's travel footprint, even if you leave out our newcomer Carroll.

And the proliferation of colleges and universities makes attracting talent a little harder.

While it's true that there's about a 40% greater ratio of D3 men's basketball schools to population in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island than there is in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Indiana, that's offset to a large degree by a much more concentrated population base in New England. Massachusetts, for example, has a population density of 871 people per square mile. Connecticut's density is 742 ppm², and Rhode Island's is 1,022 ppm². By contrast, Illinois has 232 people per square mile, Wisconsin's density is 107 ppm²,and Indiana's is 185 ppm². In other words, while there's more high-school players per D3 team out in our neck of the woods than there is in New England, it's comparatively harder to get to them all --especially if you're not a Chicagoland school. What's more, there's outside recruiting competition here that isn't found in the Northeast Region. New England is an NAIA-free zone. Here, D3 teams have to contend with the CCAC, and in Indiana there's the Crossroads League and the WHAC.

And, I would compare Anherst and Williams more along the lines of UAA schools, or in the CCIW - Wheaton as far as recruiting and attracting out of state talent.

... which means that they're not subject to stepping upon everybody else's toes in a crowded neighborhood of D3 schools. When you can recruit kids from Maryland and Ohio and California and Texas, you're not stuck with walking into a local gym and bumping into other D3 coaches who're there to bird-dog a game between the John Havlicek HS Cah-Pahkahs and the Bob Cousy HS Wicked Pissahs.

But I agree with you as far as griping about the NESCAC is concerned: It is what it is. Every league has internal autonomy over its scheduling, and that's the way it should be.

Re: CCIW teams and their SoS

I am really surprised to see how low the SoS's of some CCIW teams are. I mean, just looking at the Central Regional Rankings, a disadvantage for sure.

As I said earlier, this was an uncharacteristically poor season (by CCIW standards) for the league in non-con play.

[4samuy]

I'm certainly sympathetic, 4samuy, but the D3 championship committee operates within pretty rigid protocols concerning the criteria that are used to determine at-large berths in the tourney, so it's not as though CCIW teams will be granted any extra leeway because of the historical excellence of the league.

Greg,

As always I appreciate your insights, but my thoughts have nothing to do with historical excellence, but more about the number of teams I've seen this year. I understand the committee has certain metrics and protocols that they need to follow to determine who are the best teams come tournament time.  I was simply trying to say that there should be some emphasis on teams and games that the pollsters have watched within each region rather than preseason expectations, historical team records and conference records etc.  Everyone that posts on these boards probably has some bias towards their teams and conferences, but my point was that the eye test can give great perspective.  The question as always is who looks better from one persons eyes vs anothers😃

[Mr. Ypsi]

Re: the 'Globetrotters as a slur' discussion: I had a flashback to my childhood heroes and googled Bobby Joe Mason.  (I grew up in Peoria, Illinois, and Bradley at that time was a national power.)  Bobby and Chet (the Jet) Walker were both All-Americans in 1960; Chet went for a rather successful NBA career, Bobby went for the Globetrotters, leading me to think the careers were roughly equal at that time.  I don't think the NBA became a clear choice (financially) for top players until Magic and Bird jump-started the NBA two decades later.

[Titan Q]

Illinois Wesleyan (16-6, 8-5) at Wheaton (11-11, 7-6), 7:00pm...

Illinois Wesleyan (16-6, 8-5)
G - Brady Rose, 6-3 Jr.   15.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg
G - Colin Bonnett, 6-4 So.  10.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.0 apg
G - Andy Stempel, 6-4 Sr.   11.8 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.9 apg
F - Alec Bausch, 6-6 Sr.   9.0 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.1 apg
F - Trevor Seibring, 6-8 Sr.   12.1 ppg, 5.6 rpg

G - Nick Coleman, 6-1 So.  8.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.4 apg

Wheaton (11-11, 7-6)
G - Luke Peters, 6-3 So.   9.8 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.4 apg
G - Aston Francis, 6-1 So.   23.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg
G - Ricky Samuelson, 6-3 Jr.   12.9 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.5 apg
F - Kobe Eichelberger, 6-5 So.   7.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg
F - Trevor Gunter, 6-6 So.   5.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg

F - Jay Spencer, 6-8 Fr.   5.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg



Pantagraph - http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/iwu-heads-to-wheaton-in-tight-cciw/article_a27be8b6-2b5c-58d6-ab3f-7c9e35af5ea3.html

WJBC Radio - https://portal.stretchinternet.com/wjbc/

Video - https://livestream.com/WheatonThunder

Live stats - http://www.sidearmstats.com/wheaton/mbball/

Massey - #22-Illinois Wesleyan 75 #99-Wheaton 72  http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=cb2017&sub=11620

[lmitzel]

Just some fun with numbers (assuming 50% chance of winning each remaining game)

Hosting chances
Augie - 88.7%  (75% by winning at least 1 game, 12.3% by losing both but no one getting to 11 wins, plus some small tiebreakers)
North Park - 5.7%
IWU - 4.7%
Carthage - 1%

Average # of wins for each place in conference
1st - 12
2nd - 10.3
3rd - 9.8
4th - 8.9
5th - 8.4

Odds of 4th place having "x" amount of wins
Wins    % of time      chances there would be a tie for 4th?
  8          0.2%          100%  (4-way tie for 4th-7th place)
  9         72.7%         90.1%
10        26.9%          8.7%
11         0.2%           0%    (4-way tie for 1st-4th place)

I don't think anyone can clinch or be eliminated from the tournament tomorrow night but there are too many multiple team tiebreakers to consider at this point, we will see after Wednesday's results and things might be a bit more clear

I'd be interested to see how those numbers would change with Massey ratings, just out of curiosity. But the only clinching scenario tonight is that Augie (who has already clinched a CCIW Tournament berth despite the conference website not making note of this for some reason) can lock up the regular season title tonight if Carthage, Illinois Wesleyan, and North Park all lose, so they need to be rooting hard for North Central, Wheaton, and Carroll, respectively. If that were to happen, then North Central would leapfrog into second place and we'd have a five-way tie for third place.

...You know what? I'm rooting for that. Chaos is fun. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Sorry to intrude but the Globetrotter discussion brought back memories for this old man too.  One of them is Meadowlark's half court hook shot.  I saw them play four times and he made all four on the first attempt.  Finally, no discussion of the Globetrotters can be complete without mention of Curly Joe Neal.  Not only was he a pioneer of the shaved head look but the dude could dribble like nothing I'd ever seen.

[bbfan44]

It's going to be a fun night for scoreboard watching.

[Gregory Sager]

Current Massey:

  14. Augustana
  22. Illinois Wesleyan
  34. Carthage
  48. North Park
  56. North Central
  99. Wheaton
105. Carroll
206. Elmhurst
312. Millikin

Massey sez:

@ Elmhurst 73, Millikin 64 (EC 80%, MU 20%)
@ Carthage 75, North Central 72 (CC 59%, NCC 41%)
Illinois Wesleyan 75, @ Wheaton 72 (IWU 61%, WC 39%)
North Park 78, @ Carroll 76 (NPU 55%, CU 45%)

[AndOne]

Is Juwan Henry still out?

[lmitzel]

Current Massey:

  14. Augustana
  22. Illinois Wesleyan
  34. Carthage
  48. North Park
  56. North Central
  99. Wheaton
105. Carroll
206. Elmhurst
312. Millikin

Massey sez:

@ Elmhurst 73, Millikin 64 (EC 80%, MU 20%)
@ Carthage 75, North Central 72 (CC 59%, NCC 41%)
Illinois Wesleyan 75, @ Wheaton 72 (IWU 61%, WC 39%)
North Park 78, @ Carroll 76 (NPU 55%, CU 45%)

Quick math has my above Chaos Scenario with a 7% chance of coming to fruition according to Massey. I can live with this.

[Gregory Sager]

Is Juwan Henry still out?

Yes, I believe that he's in class right now. But I'm sure that one of his two roommates would be happy to leave him a message from you.

[Pat Coleman]

Regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-second

[Titan Q]

Regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-second

With North Park falling out of the rankings and Carthage entering, IWU dropped an 0-2 in RRO and picked up 2-0.  The difference between 3-4 and 5-2...not factored in until the next ranking, but potentially significant.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-second

With North Park falling out of the rankings and Carthage entering, IWU dropped an 0-2 in RRO and picked up 2-0.  The difference between 3-4 and 5-2...not factored in until the next ranking, but potentially significant.

Excellent point, Bob - I hadn't noticed that!  I'd only noted rising from 8 to 6, and jumping Benedictine (which is unlikely to matter if they need a C-bid).