MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

...but if I'm in that room and they are on the table for discussion, that's the first thing I'm bringing up.  IWU or any other team that didn't finish in the top 4 in their conference.

But conference tournament status and conference placement is not part of the criteria at all - http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf.  It is WP, SOS, RRO, and a few other things (like head-to-head, common opponents, etc).  It is important to reference the actual criteria in these discussions.

And to be technical, IWU did finish in the top 4, in a 9-7 4th place tie with North Central...but lost a tie-breaker. 

Also keep in mind, UW-Oshkosh is ranked right now with a .640 WP - IWU is at .680 after last night.  It's clear SOS and RRO are very important.

Again, to be clear, I think IWU is an extreme longshot...but that door is not closed.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg - no offense you know Carthage better than I do.  Regarding coach of the year, for a single pick I still go with Bosko.  However, the recent tradition has been to go with first place ties.  Why not, it does mitigate other decisions that are not unanimous .

No offense taken. As I said, if it came down to one coach I wouldn't have griped about it being Bosko Djurickovic. I just want to make sure that Tom Slyder gets his due, that's all -- not simply out of loyalty to Tom but because he genuinely deserves the respect of everybody who follows this league. As for the award itself, I had hoped that perhaps they were dispensing with that champion-coaches-are-automatically-COY-winners policy, but it didn't happen.

[Gregory Sager]

Good season overall, but no CCIW tourney and likely no dancing this year.

Fixed that for you.

I think '70s wording was OK.  IWU is an extreme longshot to get a Pool C big, but the door is not completely closed yet.  If things fall in a certain way, IWU could actually be on the board for the final pick or two of the process (#20 and #21).  And if on the board, the SOS and RRO numbers will at least be enough for conversation despite the .680 WP.

Again, extreme longshot because too much would have to fall into place perfectly for IWU to be considered...but too strong to suggest there is zero chance.  The fact IWU is not in the CCIW conference tournament is not a factor in the process at all.

Hope springs eternal I guess...

Name the last time a CCIW team finished 5th in the conference, didn't make the CCIW tournament AND made the Big dance.

I don't think that IWU is more than a thousand-to-one shot at this point (or something like that ... if I really want to go all Vegas on this, I'll send Matt Snyder a PM ), but traditions are made to be broken and precedents are made to be set. There's never been a CCIW champion with a conference winning percentage as low as .688 before -- but that happened this season. There's never been a CCIW campaign in which seven teams ended up within three games of first place -- but that happened this season, too. The past is not always prologue.

I don't believe there are numbers out there to justify that, no matter what percentages you throw out.  I'm sure you know the process better than I, but if I'm in that room and they are on the table for discussion, that's the first thing I'm bringing up.  IWU or any other team that didn't finish in the top 4 in their conference.

Bob's explanation is correct. Appearing or not appearing in a league's postseason tournament is neither a primary nor a secondary criterion as far as either the regional committee or the national committee is concerned, and it thus won't come up in any of their deliberations.

[WUPHF]

One thing that did pan out pretty much as theorized in the preseason was Carroll finding the sledding to be much tougher in the CCIW than in the MWC. After finishing 15-3 (2nd) in the Midwest, and 20-5 overall last year, and returning the majority of it's team, CU ended it's first season in the CCIW at 13-12 overall, and 8-8 in the conference. This mark was good for only a sixth place tie in the 9 team conference.

Quick question regarding Carroll with regular season in the books.  Is everyone in agreement more or less that Carroll was a neutral to good addition as far as basketball is concerned?  That is, no downside?

[Gregory Sager]

I certainly agree. But the test will be whether or not Paul Combs can keep Carroll at this level over the next few seasons.

[AndOne]

One thing that did pan out pretty much as theorized in the preseason was Carroll finding the sledding to be much tougher in the CCIW than in the MWC. After finishing 15-3 (2nd) in the Midwest, and 20-5 overall last year, and returning the majority of it's team, CU ended it's first season in the CCIW at 13-12 overall, and 8-8 in the conference. This mark was good for only a sixth place tie in the 9 team conference.

Quick question regarding Carroll with regular season in the books.  Is everyone in agreement more or less that Carroll was a neutral to good addition as far as basketball is concerned?  That is, no downside?

Are you talking men's basketball or overall?
IDK about all their sports, but women's basketball was 1-23, and their football team was 1-9.

[Gregory Sager]

Since this is the CCIW men's basketball room, I don't think that WUH was talking about women's basketball.

[petemcb]

A question for anyone who knows more about regional rankings than I do (which throws this one pretty wide open😊):  who is on these committees?  My question is prompted by the fact that Augie is ranked and North Park is not.  When I look at the numbers provided, I see Augie's overall record is one game better.  I also see them with a lower RRO % and a slightly lower SOS.  Are there other stats considered?  And even though I understand it's not a factor in the regional rankings, this doesn't get any easier when I recall Augie being swept by North Park this year. 

[USee]

A question for anyone who knows more about regional rankings than I do (which throws this one pretty wide open😊):  who is on these committees?  My question is prompted by the fact that Augie is ranked and North Park is not.  When I look at the numbers provided, I see Augie's overall record is one game better.  I also see them with a lower RRO % and a slightly lower SOS.  Are there other stats considered?  And even though I understand it's not a factor in the regional rankings, this doesn't get any easier when I recall Augie being swept by North Park this year.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf

CENTRAL REGION
George Barber, chair Greenville SLIAC
Todd Creal MacMurray SLIAC
Mark Edwards Washington UAA
Grey Giovanine Augustana (Illinois) CCIW
Chad Murray Cornell Midwest
Aaron Aanonsen Lakeland Northern Athletics
Jeff Gard Wisconsin-Platteville WIAC

[AppletonRocks]

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-third

No IWU or NPU

Oshkosh in at #8

It is what it is. As I said last night, there's still unfinished business ahead for the Vikings.

Remember, that is based on play through Sunday.

Obviously. It will be interesting if IWU sneaks back in considering they will be the only (or one of few) Pool C candidate to go undefeated this week! If they can sneak back in this weekend, that obviously helps Augie and Carthage in the vRRO category.

It helps NPU even more, because if NPU can beat Augie on Friday I'm pretty sure that the Vikes will get into the final ranking even if they lose on Saturday -- if UWW takes care of business and defeats the B'Goshers tomorrow night in Oshkosh, that is.

Shinetime already left for Salem.  He is going to write posts from there until the Final 4 where Whitewater will show they've been toying with us all year.  At least that is inferred.  

[petemcb]

Thanks, Usee. That'll be good to pour over.  When I look at the selection criteria, it's still not helping me see Augie where it is as compared to North Park.  Anyone else with input?

[sac]

Thanks, Usee. That'll be good to pour over.  When I look at the selection criteria, it's still not helping me see Augie where it is as compared to North Park.  Anyone else with input?

For this poll, Augie had a .042 advantage in Win %, everything else looks equal or nearly equal.  Augie doesn't really have any "bad" losses, NP has that loss at Manchester (9-16) that can't be helping.

[petemcb]

Thanks, Usee. That'll be good to pour over.  When I look at the selection criteria, it's still not helping me see Augie where it is as compared to North Park.  Anyone else with input?

For this poll, Augie had a .042 advantage in Win %, everything else looks equal or nearly equal.  Augie doesn't really have any "bad" losses, NP has that loss at Manchester (9-16) that can't be helping.

So is overall record weighted more heavily, because I see overall record being a one game advantage in Augie's favor and RRO being a two game advantage in NPU's favor, along with a sliiiight SOS advantage in North Park's favor.

No doubt that Manchester loss is a bad one.

[robberki]

No happy about the NPU matchup this friday. It's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season....it's the one team I didn't want to face.

[Mr. Ypsi]

No happy about the NPU matchup this friday. It's hard to beat a team 3 times in one season....it's the one team I didn't want to face.

I'll leave that slow, hanging pitch for Greg to knock out of the park!

Now FOUR times ... in 2014 Amherst had already beaten Williams 3 times, all by double-digits.  In Salem, Williams CRUSHED the then Lord Jeffs (now the unnamed teams from the same town as UConn).