MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

I think Augie will get in, and IWU will be on the table for the final 2-3 picks.

I fully understand how the numbers work, and Bosko's comment about a bad precedent doesn't really make much sense on the face of it, but I understand his sentiment. Something feels wrong about a 17-8 team that only went 9-7 in league play and finished in a tie for fourth place getting to the table without even qualifying for the league's tournament while two tri-champions are cleaning out their lockers for the year and the third is on pins and needles waiting for a possible Pool C berth with their team very much on the bubble.

You and the other IWU fans can protest this all that you like -- and, again, I understand how the numbers work -- but it feels very cockeyed.

That's kind of like saying the non-conference doesn't count though.  Every game counts and the criteria is very clear - and IWU and Augie are the top two Pool C candidates.

North Park would be in great shape with wins over Manchester and Illinois Tech.

[Gregory Sager]

One thing to keep in mind with regard to altering the CCIW tourney format, Larry, is that there are equity issues here. The basketball coaches can't unilaterally decide to expand the format from four teams to six, or from four teams to eight. The rest of the CCIW sports that have postseason tourneys have four teams apiece, so we're talking about alterations that would have to be made in multiple sports ... because an expanded tournament in just one sport means that more conference money goes into that sport's budget.

At the very least, women's basketball would have to be given the same opportunity to expand. And I'm not sure that the baseball and softball people would be satisfied if they then weren't given at least an option to expand their tourneys as well, whether they actually want to expand them or not. And so on, and so forth.

Greg - I did not propose an expanded tournament.  You proffered it as potentially something I might be thinking which I was not.

OK, sorry, Larry. I was just trying to piece together what you meant in that original post.

I think Augie will get in, and IWU will be on the table for the final 2-3 picks.

I fully understand how the numbers work, and Bosko's comment about a bad precedent doesn't really make much sense on the face of it, but I understand his sentiment. Something feels wrong about a 17-8 team that only went 9-7 in league play and finished in a tie for fourth place getting to the table without even qualifying for the league's tournament while two tri-champions are cleaning out their lockers for the year and the third is on pins and needles waiting for a possible Pool C berth with their team very much on the bubble.

You and the other IWU fans can protest this all that you like -- and, again, I understand how the numbers work -- but it feels very cockeyed.

That's kind of like saying the non-conference doesn't count though.  Every game counts and the criteria is very clear - and IWU and Augie are the top two Pool C candidates.

North Park would be in great shape with wins over Manchester and Illinois Tech.

As I've already said, Bob, I understand how the numbers work. And I'm as fully aware as anybody that NPU, Carthage, and Augie have non-conference losses for which they'd love to have mulligans right now.

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

[Mr. Ypsi]

One thing to keep in mind with regard to altering the CCIW tourney format, Larry, is that there are equity issues here. The basketball coaches can't unilaterally decide to expand the format from four teams to six, or from four teams to eight. The rest of the CCIW sports that have postseason tourneys have four teams apiece, so we're talking about alterations that would have to be made in multiple sports ... because an expanded tournament in just one sport means that more conference money goes into that sport's budget.

At the very least, women's basketball would have to be given the same opportunity to expand. And I'm not sure that the baseball and softball people would be satisfied if they then weren't given at least an option to expand their tourneys as well, whether they actually want to expand them or not. And so on, and so forth.

Greg - I did not propose an expanded tournament.  You proffered it as potentially something I might be thinking which I was not.

OK, sorry, Larry. I was just trying to piece together what you meant in that original post.

I think Augie will get in, and IWU will be on the table for the final 2-3 picks.

I fully understand how the numbers work, and Bosko's comment about a bad precedent doesn't really make much sense on the face of it, but I understand his sentiment. Something feels wrong about a 17-8 team that only went 9-7 in league play and finished in a tie for fourth place getting to the table without even qualifying for the league's tournament while two tri-champions are cleaning out their lockers for the year and the third is on pins and needles waiting for a possible Pool C berth with their team very much on the bubble.

You and the other IWU fans can protest this all that you like -- and, again, I understand how the numbers work -- but it feels very cockeyed.

That's kind of like saying the non-conference doesn't count though.  Every game counts and the criteria is very clear - and IWU and Augie are the top two Pool C candidates.

North Park would be in great shape with wins over Manchester and Illinois Tech.

As I've already said, Bob, I understand how the numbers work. And I'm as fully aware as anybody that NPU, Carthage, and Augie have non-conference losses for which they'd love to have mulligans right now.

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

Understood.  It's kinda like IWU not getting the AQ in '06, '12, '14, yet going to Salem!

We'd prefer to do it the 'right way', but we'll take it anyway it comes.

[Titan Q]

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

I guess I understand that a little, but the process is just so black & white -- there really isn't any room for feelings in WP/SOS/RRO.

[Gregory Sager]

Understood.  It's kinda like IWU not getting the AQ in '06, '12, '14, yet going to Salem!

It's not even one little bit like that, Chuck.

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

I guess I understand that a little, but the process is just so black & white -- there really isn't any room for feelings in WP/SOS/RRO.

I'm well aware of that. And I suspect that Bosko is as well. I don't know if he was simply venting or if he was politicking, as kiko surmised. I just know that on a gut level, as opposed to a head level, this feels off.

[kiko]

Understood.  It's kinda like IWU not getting the AQ in '06, '12, '14, yet going to Salem!

It's not even one little bit like that, Chuck.

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

I guess I understand that a little, but the process is just so black & white -- there really isn't any room for feelings in WP/SOS/RRO.

I'm well aware of that. And I suspect that Bosko is as well. I don't know if he was simply venting or if he was politicking, as kiko surmised. I just know that on a gut level, as opposed to a head level, this feels off.

FWIW, I think it was some of both.

[augiefan]

i think if we are being objective we have to admit the CCIW was weake than usual this year. The nonconference winning percentage was far below the norm. I think it is likely that only NC will be representing us this year.

This tourney certainly proved how hard it is to beat a team 3 times in the same season. NP proved that last night and Augie did it tonight. Good luck to NC in the tourney.

[Gregory Sager]

This tourney certainly proved how hard it is to beat a team 3 times in the same season. NP proved that last night and Augie did it tonight. Good luck to NC in the tourney.

Again, that has nothing to do with it. Do you really think that NPU would've had a tough time with Millikin or Elmhurst last night, or that Augie would've had to break a serious sweat to beat the Bluejays or the Big Blue tonight?

The top of the league was loaded with parity. That's why Augie beat NPU for the first time in three tries last night, and why NCC beat Augie for the first time tonight after falling short in their previous two meetings. Don't forget that the last time that NPU played Augie in the regular season the game went to overtime on NPU's floor. Same deal with NCC and Augie; the last time that they played it went to an extra session on Augie's floor. Those two facts right there were all you needed to know about how inconclusive those matchups were with regard to the sweeper having the leg up on the sweeped.

[iwu70]

And, isn't the Augie Coach on the Committee too?  So there's plenty of stuff to think about -- with feelings and numbers, with feeling cockeyed and following the very clear criteria.  We'll see how it plays out and what the final regional rankings look like, after the fact, right?  Maybe the Committee will surprise us all and put three CCIW teams in the tournament!  LOL.

Anyway, congrats to NCC on grabbing the AQ -- they did it on the floor, so nothing unclear or confused about that!  That's the way to do it and not worry then about Selection Sunday and all the vagaries one faces when waiting, watching to see how many upsets there are of expected Pool A teams.  Pool C surely will shrink a bit more, if previous trends come to pass.

IWU'70

[AndOne]

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

I guess I understand that a little, but the process is just so black & white -- there really isn't any room for feelings in WP/SOS/RRO.

There is also no rule that says the committee has to go in strict order of the regional rankings. Especially the rankings as we think we know them. What I mean by that is aren't the final rankings a secret? I thought the committee didn't release the final rankings. If such is the case what has appeared so far on this board is just an educated guess as to what the current order is.
And even if what we've been shown is currently correct, you would think the committee has some leeway in their selection process and that, as such, they would exhibit some common sense and not select a team that wasn't good enough to even make their own conference tournament. Is there anyone out there that doesn't wear green glasses that feels IWU is worthy of being selected to participate in the national tournament?

And it's not just other members of the CCIW that feel that it's beyond the realm of logical thinking to even consider selecting IWU. Based on a conversation I had this evening, coaches and administrators from teams/conferences outside the CCIW are aghast at the possibility that a team that couldn't qualify for its own conference tourney could be selected for the national tourney.

[USee]

If it means 2 CCIW teams in the tournament I have no problem with IWU getting in.  Other than your consistent bias against them why would you care AndOne?

[iwu70]

Come on AO, the numbers are the numbers for the entire season, not just for the last weekend.  It's been made pretty clear here why it may be the case that IWU is the top-ranked team, perhaps first to the table from the CCIW, not receiving the AQ.  You, of all people, should know how the system for regional rankings and selection in the national tournament works.  Yes, everyone has feelings . . even cockeyed ones, but that's not how this whole selection process works.  Get over it.

I'm pretty sure no other CCIW team will get in -- perhaps Augie or IWU will, but looks to me like a one-bid year.  Little chance for NPU or CC.  That's the meaning of all the internal carnage in the league this year with so much intra-CCIW fraticide.  That's the way it goes.  You are lucky that NCC peaked and played well at the key time, grabbing up the AQ.  Good for them and congrats to them.  We all wish them well for a good long run in the dance.

IWU'70

[AndOne]

Here's another little diddy that I wonder about with regard to how it might possibly affect the regional rankings and selection process.................

Has anyone considered the possibility that with it's wins over Carthage last night and Augie tonight, that NCC might end up being regionally ranked? Or does this possibility only exist outside the galaxy?
Because, if NCC does end up in the regional rankings, does that not add two wins to both Carthage and Augie and two losses to IWU?

Also, another poster mentioned that Grey Giovanine is a member of the Committee. Who do you think HE is going to place on a higher rung on the ladder?

[AndOne]

Come on AO, the numbers are the numbers for the entire season, not just for the last weekend.  It's been made pretty clear here why it may be the case that IWU is the top-ranked team, perhaps first to the table from the CCIW, not receiving the AQ.  You, of all people, should know how the system for regional rankings and selection in the national tournament works.  Yes, everyone has feelings . . even cockeyed ones, but that's not how this whole selection process works.  Get over it.

I'm pretty sure no other CCIW team will get in -- perhaps Augie or IWU will, but looks to me like a one-bid year.  Little chance for NPU or CC.  That's the meaning of all the internal carnage in the league this year with so much intra-CCIW fraticide.  That's the way it goes.  You are lucky that NCC peaked and played well at the key time, grabbing up the AQ.  Good for them and congrats to them.  We all wish them well for a good long run in the dance.

IWU'70

First of all, 70 please don't act like I am the only one who thinks it's ludicrous that there is any possibility whatsoever that a non qualifier for their conference tournament could be selected for the national tournament. Several other posters have expressed the exact same thoughts.
Tonight I even talked with members of two staffs outside the CCIW who feel it's insane that the possibility would even be considered. So it's certainly not just me or even just not staffs and/or fans of other CCIW teams. Nearly everyone is united in their thinking on the subject.

I'm still sensing Augie gets in.

NCC and their fans appreciate your well wishes.

Yes, NCC overcame a huge personnel loss and "peeked," as you said, at the right time. The little engine that wasn't supposed to even be able to leave the station chugged it's way to the top of the mountain. 🚂 🏔 

[AndOne]

RE THE AUGIE FANS AT TONIGHTS TOURNEY CHAMPIONSHIP GAME:

Those of us on the NCC side very much appreciate and thank those of you who crossed the aisle after the game to express your congratulations, and extend best wishes for success in the upcoming national tourney. Thanks again!