MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[iwu70]

AO, come on, I'm not that bad a speller.  I wrote "peaked." 

Well, the numbers are the numbers, whatever you, others and those outside the league may say.  It is an overall, entire season evaluation and number, based on a specific and clear criteria -- and conference tournament has very little to do with it overall  -- so who knows how it all comes out.  Regional rankings will be published after the fact. I agree that if NCC is ranked, that will help certain teams and surely not help the Titans.  That's a good point.  Not sure NCC gets ranked with 17-10, but you may well be right.  All I know is that Q's numbers over the years have been pretty spot on . . . and several others have shown here that IWU may well be the top-ranked team other than the AQ winner. 

Perhaps Augie gets in, but my view is that it's unlikely that the CCIW gets a second bid this season.  Wait a few hours and we'll all know.

Good luck to NCC going forward.

IWU'70

[Gregory Sager]

AO, come on, I'm not that bad a speller.  I wrote "peaked." 

Yes, you did spell it correctly. He should've knocked you instead for misspelling "fratricide". Then again, he misspelled "ditty", so you're even.

Now that the spelling lesson is over, I return you all to this weekend's countdown of the Top 64 hits in the nation. Up next, and advancing up the charts this week, a little ditty from downstate called, "I Never Learned How to Dance in Kenosha".

[Titan Q]

My Sunday morning look at Pool C - http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1793718#msg1793718.

[Gregory Sager]

That's the way to do it and not worry then about Selection Sunday

Wait a few hours and we'll all know.

The selection process takes place tomorrow morning, Mark, not today. There are still conference tourney championship games to be played in a half-dozen D3 leagues today.

[Titan Q]

Here's another little diddy that I wonder about with regard to how it might possibly affect the regional rankings and selection process.................

Has anyone considered the possibility that with it's wins over Carthage last night and Augie tonight, that NCC might end up being regionally ranked? Or does this possibility only exist outside the galaxy?
Because, if NCC does end up in the regional rankings, does that not add two wins to both Carthage and Augie and two losses to IWU?

Also, another poster mentioned that Grey Giovanine is a member of the Committee. Who do you think HE is going to place on a higher rung on the ladder?

I think North Central probably will enter the rankings.  But I don't think it significantly changes the CCIW order.  The data would be...
   * Augustana: .704/.542/4-3
   * Illinois Wesleyan: .680/.556/6-4
   * Carthage: .680/.553/4-2

It probably solidifies Augie as the CCIW's top Pool C...which was already the assumption.  But it does not give Carthage a better resume than IWU.  IWU still has better overall numbers...plus a sweep of Carthage. 

In my Pool C projection, I have the order as Augie, IWU, Carthage...which I think is the only possible order based on the criteria.

I believe the final Central Region final ranking will be...

(RRO totals through the last ranking only)

1. UW-River Falls: .880/.591/8-3
2. Washington U: .800/.575/7-2
3. UW-Whitewater: .769/.567/3-5
4. UW-Eau Claire: .680/.570/3-4
5. Augustana: .704/.542/2-2
6. North Central: .654/.556/3-4
7. Illinois Wesleyan: .680/.556/6-2
8. Carthage: .680/.553/2-2

[Titan Q]

Is there anyone out there that doesn't wear green glasses that feels IWU is worthy of being selected to participate in the national tournament?

Yes.  Here is analysis from guys who understand the process well and do a lot of work to analyze Pool C...

  * Matt Snyder - http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/.
  * Drew Pastuer - http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1793609#msg1793609.

Both - one a Calvin guy, the other Wooster - have IWU in the same place, literally right on the cut line at #22. I basically have IWU in the same spot - somewhere down at the end of the bubble with a very legitimate chance to get in.

The suggestion that this is driven by IWU fans is really not fair.  The people who are working this through the actual process, and avoiding subjective feelings - like "how can they get in without making the conference tournament" - have IWU very much in the bubble mix.

[Titan Q]

First of all, 70 please don't act like I am the only one who thinks it's ludicrous that there is any possibility whatsoever that a non qualifier for their conference tournament could be selected for the national tournament. Several other posters have expressed the exact same thoughts.
Tonight I even talked with members of two staffs outside the CCIW who feel it's insane that the possibility would even be considered. So it's certainly not just me or even just not staffs and/or fans of other CCIW teams. Nearly everyone is united in their thinking on the subject.

At least consider the other side too.  How should IWU coaches and players feel if the Central Region committee brings in factors that are not part of the established and communicated criteria in making the final ranking? The way the process works is extremely clear to everyone - http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf - which is probably the best thing about the way things work nowadays.  It eliminates bias and favoritism like the old days -- and let's be clear, there is bias in play in some of these conversations surrounding why IWU should not be considered (for reasons outside the criteria).

The criteria is the criteria and the numbers are the numbers.

[augiefan]

i think if we are being objective we have to admit the CCIW was weaker than usual this year. The nonconference winning percentage was far below the norm. I think it is likely that only NC will be representing us this year.

This tourney certainly proved how hard it is to beat a team 3 times in the same season. NP proved that last night and Augie did it tonight. Good luck to NC in the tourney.

[augiefan]

Dear Sager I think it goes without saying that you do not play a third game against a fellow CCIW opponent, unless you are playing in the conference tourney.

[kiko]

Here's another little diddy that I wonder about with regard to how it might possibly affect the regional rankings and selection process.................

Has anyone considered the possibility that with it's wins over Carthage last night and Augie tonight, that NCC might end up being regionally ranked? Or does this possibility only exist outside the galaxy?
Because, if NCC does end up in the regional rankings, does that not add two wins to both Carthage and Augie and two losses to IWU?

Also, another poster mentioned that Grey Giovanine is a member of the Committee. Who do you think HE is going to place on a higher rung on the ladder?

I think North Central probably will enter the rankings.  But I don't think it significantly changes the CCIW order.  The data would be...
   * Augustana: .704/.542/4-3
   * Illinois Wesleyan: .680/.556/6-4
   * Carthage: .680/.553/4-2

It probably solidifies Augie as the CCIW's top Pool C...which was already the assumption.  But it does not give Carthage a better resume than IWU.  IWU still has better overall numbers...plus a sweep of Carthage. 

In my Pool C projection, I have the order as Augie, IWU, Carthage...which I think is the only possible order based on the criteria.

I believe the final Central Region final ranking will be...

(RRO totals through the last ranking only)

1. UW-River Falls: .880/.591/8-3
2. Washington U: .800/.575/7-2
3. UW-Eau Claire: .680/.570/3-4
4. Augustana: .704/.542/2-2
5. North Central: .654/.556/3-4
6. Illinois Wesleyan: .680/.556/6-2
7. Carthage: .680/.553/2-2
8. UW-Oshkosh: .630/.601/5-6  or  Benedictine: .880/.496/1-0 

I don't think the Oshkosh vs Benedictine order matters for Pool C because I don't think either can get to the table.  But it matters for RRO purposes for other teams.  I think UWO will be 8 even though they lost to BU.

Carthage would go to 4-3 vRRO in this scenario, and not 4-2.

North Central entering the rankings would, on the margins, probably help Augustana and Carthage as it adds two wins and one loss vRRO, and negatively impact IWU.

It will give the Bennies a loss vRRO, but honestly, just having more games in that column is probably good for them, and it was not a bad result as this game was a three point loss.  (I don't expect an additional vRRO in their creds will do anything more than, at most, get Benedictine into the bottom of the Central rankings.  They will not get to the table for Pool C consideration.)

I'm simply saying that I can grasp what was bothering Bosko in his postgame comments last night. There's just something that feels off about a team not qualifying for the conference tournament and then getting to the table on Selection Monday.

I guess I understand that a little, but the process is just so black & white -- there really isn't any room for feelings in WP/SOS/RRO.

There is also no rule that says the committee has to go in strict order of the regional rankings. Especially the rankings as we think we know them. What I mean by that is aren't the final rankings a secret? I thought the committee didn't release the final rankings. If such is the case what has appeared so far on this board is just an educated guess as to what the current order is.
And even if what we've been shown is currently correct, you would think the committee has some leeway in their selection process and that, as such, they would exhibit some common sense and not select a team that wasn't good enough to even make their own conference tournament. Is there anyone out there that doesn't wear green glasses that feels IWU is worthy of being selected to participate in the national tournament?

And it's not just other members of the CCIW that feel that it's beyond the realm of logical thinking to even consider selecting IWU. Based on a conversation I had this evening, coaches and administrators from teams/conferences outside the CCIW are aghast at the possibility that a team that couldn't qualify for its own conference tourney could be selected for the national tourney.

I am certainly no Green Weenie apologist, but I think this language is disingeneous.  The Titans were a two-point overtime loss away from making the conference tournament.  They didn't make the conference tournament, and at the end of the day that is what it is.  But I'm not sure I would go so far as to say they were not good enough to do so.

[kiko]

Come on AO, the numbers are the numbers for the entire season, not just for the last weekend.  It's been made pretty clear here why it may be the case that IWU is the top-ranked team, perhaps first to the table from the CCIW, not receiving the AQ.  You, of all people, should know how the system for regional rankings and selection in the national tournament works.  Yes, everyone has feelings . . even cockeyed ones, but that's not how this whole selection process works.  Get over it.

I'm pretty sure no other CCIW team will get in -- perhaps Augie or IWU will, but looks to me like a one-bid year.  Little chance for NPU or CC.  That's the meaning of all the internal carnage in the league this year with so much intra-CCIW fraticide.  That's the way it goes.  You are lucky that NCC peaked and played well at the key time, grabbing up the AQ.  Good for them and congrats to them.  We all wish them well for a good long run in the dance.

IWU'70

70, you spent the better part of the season dismissing North Central.  They didn't impress you when they beat the Titans in December.  Then when Connor Raridon got injured, you basically wrote them off:

Gentlemen:

At this stage in the season, what say you about the top four teams likely to be in the CCIW tournament. 

I'd say NPU, IWU, NCC and Augie, pretty much in that order.  Anybody else have a good shot?  CC or Carroll?  I think others unlikely, though WC has played well at points. I think EC and MU unlikely. 

Any views?

IWU'70

And back in January, you gave us:

Come on, AO, you just have to admit it, NCC is in trouble.

The thing is, if you think North Central peaked at the right time, you haven't been paying attention. (I know... the red stuff doesn't show up very well when wearing green shades.)

Since mid-January, North Central has overtime losses to Augustana and Carthage.  That's it.  They hit a bumpy stretch around the beginning of the New Year, including a mystifying loss to Elmhurst.  But the Cardinals been playing as well as anyone in the conference for the better part of five weeks now.  The Pool 'A' bid is anything but luck.

[Titan Q]

My revised projection which has IWU out due to some rumblings I'm hearing about final Central Region rankings.  I'm hearing the Pool C order is UW-Whitewater, Augustana, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Oshkosh, Carthage.

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.msg1793761#msg1793761

[USee]

I think Bosko is an idiot and the politics that got IWU moved down the regional rankings is a farce. If Carthage wanted to have a better Pool C chance they should have won more non conference games. IWU didn't do well enough in the conference to make it to the conference tourney. But the notion that "They aren't good enough to be in their own tourney" presumes that the teams in the CCIW tourney is worse than the NCAA tournament in some way. IWU should absolutely be considered based on the numbers and not because Bosko barked to coaches around the region after he laid an egg in the conference tourney. IWU  played well enough to be considered alongside the other Pool C teams and the criteria should dictate the selections, not the politics of "bad feelings".

Bad day for the CCIW coaches and whomever else was part of this crying.

[sac]

I really don't think there is politics here.  IWU's fate was sealed with the last rankings, they just refused to be acknowledged on these boards.

[Titan Q]

I really don't think there is politics here.  IWU's fate was sealed with the last rankings, they just refused to be acknowledged on these boards.

Why would the last rankings be a make or break in terms of the final rankings, Scott?  The rankings are a very fluid thing, week to week.  Why couldn't IWU have been unranked in Week 3 and then pop back in Week 4 (final) after the data changed?