MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[izzy stradlin]

Who? 

Connor Raridon? You remember him -- that's the guy whose absence North Central was constantly forced to adjust to all season.

No, not all season. Only from the 8th game on.
That is unless you feel that the Cardinals didn't need to make any adjustments despite the loss of a pre-season All-American? 

That is unless you feel that the Cardinals didn't need to make any adjustments despite the loss of a pre-season All-American? 

On the off chance that you actually don't get my point, it was the fact that you drumbeat this all season even after they had two-thirds of a season to actually, you know, adjust.

With all due respect, my "drumbeating," as you term it, is due to the fact that some people, for whatever reason, refuse to believe many, if any, adjustments needed to be made by the Cardinals after Connor's loss. The truth is that over the remainder of the season many adjustments were made, often from game to game depending on both the makeup of the opposition, and the game situation at the time. Connor's absence necessitated many adjustments on both ends of the floor for the last two thirds of the season. Adjustments that wouldn't likely have been necessary had he been available. The remarkable thing about the situation is that those who most stridently resist(ed) the idea are not those who watch many team practices, attend almost every game, or spend a substantial amount of time with the coaching staff discussing the various game situations. In other words, they are not anyone who has any contact with the team or really knows anything at all about them.

This is an honest question, AndOne:   You watch practices and discuss game situations with the NCC coaching staff and even attend the team banquet--- Can I ask why?   Do you work for NCC is some capacity?  Do you have a kid who is on the NCC basketball team?

You obviously have a strong emotional tie to NCC and that is fine but it leads to a large amount of bias in all of your posts--the exact opposite of what you are trying to imply.   

[AndOne]

Izzy,

In answer to your question....

I became a casual fan of NCC several years ago. Just attended mainly basketball and some football games because I like the D3 structure as opposed to the big business based model of college sports that D1 operates under. I also live only 5 minutes away so it was natural to take an interest in the local team, especially considering the campus is practically in my back yard. I played basketball and football in HS, and basketball in college, and am pretty much of a sports nut. My interest and attachment increased when Todd Raridon was hired because he came to NCC from the school I attended--so no, I'm not a NCC alum. Neither is my wife, nor my son.
I'm merely a good fan who is both devoted and loyal. I am not a NCC employee and never have been.
In addition to being a good fan, I have, over the years, become friendly with the basketball staff. I've known Todd Raridon for 12 1/2 years now. Being retired and being so close to campus I have the opportunity to spend a good amount of time at the gym, often several days a week. So, even though I'm not an employee, I'm pretty ingrained in the team fabric. I often watch open gym in the fall and spring, and go to many summer league games. Over the years, to the extent a guy my age can be with kids of college age, I've become friends with many of the NCC players, including Mitch, Derek, and Connor Raridon. I still see several graduates fairly regularly, continuing friendships first developed while they were members of the team as far back as 2006. I've been honored to have been invited and have attended several of the former players weddings. I have also become friends with some of the players parents over the years. I'm fortunate to have been accepted by the NCC family to the extent I have been over the course of several years now, and I'm thankful, especially to the coaches, for both accepting me, and putting up with me to the extent they have and do. Hope that answers it for you.

As far as your accusation of being biased, sure I am to some degree. But so are almost all of our posters toward their teams. Tell me you're not with regard to your team. Also, many people confuse bias with fact. I might say something that appears biased to some degree. But because I'm actually there, as close to the situation as I often am, its factual despite how it might sound. Something you need to consider when filing a charge of bias.

And now, an honest question for you. Why do you often take a confrontational position with regard to NCC? For instance on Feb 18, you fired a sarcastic remark regarding Connor's absence when I said IWU, in attempting to qualify for the conference tournament, was lucky they got to play NCC minus C. Raridon. This just seems to be a situation that is particularly grating to you. If you know anything about basketball, which I believe you certainly do, why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that IWU had a much better chance against NCC without CR than with him? Thank you, Izzy.

[iwu70]

Hey guys, I even got the CR7 reference and knew about the stellar soccer player . . . and I'm an opera fan after all!    Geez.

IWU'70

[iwu70]

Yes, it's off-season and I'm just "yammering" away over here in Hong Kong.

Plus, don't be so cruel to Ypsi, he's not only family, he's a classmate.  And, let's face it, Q is almost always right, but not always.   He can be significantly wrong at times. . . 

'70

[USee]

I am a sports fanaholic and, while I know who Cristiano Rinaldo is, I had no idea what CR7 meant until Sager wrote the name. It' clearly a branding effort but one that had not reached me until now.

Separately, did Connor Raridon miss some of the basketball season this year?

[badgerwarhawk]

I consider myself a gym rat sports junkie but I have to confess I had no clue who Cristiano Rinaldo is let alone what CR7 meant.  Guess I'm just not into soccer though that may be changing as my 11 y/o grandson has advised me that it is his "favorite" sport.  However I cringe at the idea that I will be watching soccer for several years to come. 

[WUPHF]

And two, I think you are badly underestimating his q-rating.  His celebrity appeal spans well beyond the futbol world, and I have to believe that familiarity with his nickname does so to some extent as well.

The Cristiano Ronaldo brand is huge in the United States thanks to his appeal among the various young, female demographics.

I love soccer and have seen the man play live, but I have never consciously heard the phrase CR7.

[Gregory Sager]

Sometimes I feel like I read the alumni magazine for two CCIW institutions rather than just one...

One of them badly needs an editor.

Ypsi is family here, or something like that, but how many times has Titan Q had to correct him on things related to IWU basketball?  I wouldn't necessarily choose to use him as a barometer for awareness of broader cultural trends.

I know that I tease Chuck a lot, and that he has shown some baffling gaps in his knowledge from time to time, but he is a genuine soccer fan. He's even coached the sport. He and Tom (Greek Tragedy) are, in fact, two of the biggest soccer fans who post in these rooms. (Although, oddly enough, Chuck seldom posts in the D3 soccer rooms, and I've never seen Tom post in there.) I know that Chuck is much more likely to be up on Ronaldo than I am.

Who? 

Connor Raridon? You remember him -- that's the guy whose absence North Central was constantly forced to adjust to all season.

No, not all season. Only from the 8th game on.
That is unless you feel that the Cardinals didn't need to make any adjustments despite the loss of a pre-season All-American? 

That is unless you feel that the Cardinals didn't need to make any adjustments despite the loss of a pre-season All-American? 

On the off chance that you actually don't get my point, it was the fact that you drumbeat this all season even after they had two-thirds of a season to actually, you know, adjust.

With all due respect, my "drumbeating," as you term it, is due to the fact that some people, for whatever reason, refuse to believe many, if any, adjustments needed to be made by the Cardinals after Connor's loss. The truth is that over the remainder of the season many adjustments were made, often from game to game depending on both the makeup of the opposition, and the game situation at the time. Connor's absence necessitated many adjustments on both ends of the floor for the last two thirds of the season. Adjustments that wouldn't likely have been necessary had he been available. The remarkable thing about the situation is that those who most stridently resist(ed) the idea are not those who watch many team practices, attend almost every game, or spend a substantial amount of time with the coaching staff discussing the various game situations. In other words, they are not anyone who has any contact with the team or really knows anything at all about them.

As my gif indicated, I was planning to just sit this one out and eat popcorn while you and Pat went at it, Mark, but I have to step in at this point and disagree with you. This statement:

the fact that some people, for whatever reason, refuse to believe many, if any, adjustments needed to be made by the Cardinals after Connor's loss.

... is just plain wrong. If you wish to dispute me on this, please enclose a quote that proves your point. Nobody in his right mind would've ever said that a team doesn't need to adjust after losing one of the top three or four players in the league to injury seven games deep into the season. That simply wouldn't make any sense. Of course a team would need to adjust to that loss, especially given Raridon's versatility. And that's why nobody said such a thing. If I may speak for Izzy, I think that this might be what he was getting at with regard to your NCC bias; you may have been reading something into somebody else's post with regard to Raridon that really wasn't there.

What I think that you might be missing here is that there's been a pretty widespread reaction to your constant drumbeating -- and, yes, that's the right word -- about Raridon's injury all season long. It's not just Pat and Izzy. A lot of us have noticed it, and some of us have reacted to it. Nobody's gonna buy this:

Connor's absence necessitated many adjustments on both ends of the floor for the last two thirds of the season.

Why? Because you don't adjust to the lack of something that you already don't have. Raridon went down in the seventh game of the season. By January, the NCC coaching staff had already figured out what it was going to do without him, and his teammates had grown used to his absence. Yes, NCC had to constantly make adjustments as the season went along, but that's a basketball truism. Everybody makes adjustments. It's not an injury thing; it's a general basketball thing.

Your insistence upon going to the well time and time again all season with the whole, "the Connor Raridon-less Cardinals" or "keep in mind that NCC was missing Connor Raridon" by turns seemed to amuse and weary CCIW Chat readers. You're focusing upon Pat and Izzy here (and Izzy's not more prone to take a confrontational position with regard to NCC than are any of the rest of us non-Cards fans; Izzy's a pretty even-handed poster), but I don't think you realize how you were coming off here. I mean, it's not like you were getting on my last nerve by incessantly harping upon Raridon's absence all season, but it did seem to me to be an ongoing exercise in excuse-making on your part. Injuries happen, to players both significant and insignificant. You deal with them and move on. Or, to use Augie6's words in replying to you when discussing the absences of Raridon and Pierson Wofford from an Augie vs. NCC game:

They are both done for the year, so you move on and play with the players you have.

In a way, you inspired me. When Juwan Henry went down with an injury in late January, I made a vow not to keep mentioning it here -- not just because of the "deal with it and move on" thing, but because I didn't want to follow your path. And so, not once during Juwan's extended absence did I bring him up on CCIW Chat, let alone use his absence to make excuses for NPU's slump. The following quote is the only time that I mentioned his name here during his convalescence:

With both NCC's Connor Raridon and NPU's Juwan Henry out, I wouldn't classify the NCC win as an upset despite NPU's superior record and #20 ranking.

On Friday it will be two months to the day since Connor Raridon broke his hand. That means that NCC's had two-thirds of the season now to get used to being without him. The Cardinals have long since forged a new non-Raridon identity; players are used to having different roles than they had when Raridon was playing, and the newer players who've been given playing time in his absence are now much more seasoned. Meanwhile, on the other side of Chicagoland, the Vikings are still in the process of trying to figure out how to make up for the loss of Juwan's 20 ppg if they're forced to keep playing without him.

But you're not going to catch me hiding behind Juwan's absence as an excuse. I won't be using "the Juwan Henryless Vikings," or any phrase of that sort. North Park should've won Saturday night's game, plain and simple, and I certainly hope that the Vikings aren't trying to explain away the loss by citing Juwan's injury. They owe it to themselves to not only own up to their failures on Saturday but to work at coming up with a way to win in Tarble on Wednesday if their senior All-American is once again forced to sit on the bench in street clothes.

As Casey Stengel used to say, you can look it up.

Izzy,

In answer to your question....

I became a casual fan of NCC several years ago. Just attended mainly basketball and some football games because I like the D3 structure as opposed to the big business based model of college sports that D1 operates under. I also live only 5 minutes away so it was natural to take an interest in the local team, especially considering the campus is practically in my back yard. I played basketball and football in HS, and basketball in college, and am pretty much of a sports nut. My interest and attachment increased when Todd Raridon was hired because he came to NCC from the school I attended--so no, I'm not a NCC alum. Neither is my wife, nor my son.
I'm merely a good fan who is both devoted and loyal. I am not a NCC employee and never have been.
In addition to being a good fan, I have, over the years, become friendly with the basketball staff. I've known Todd Raridon for 12 1/2 years now. Being retired and being so close to campus I have the opportunity to spend a good amount of time at the gym, often several days a week. So, even though I'm not an employee, I'm pretty ingrained in the team fabric. I often watch open gym in the fall and spring, and go to many summer league games. Over the years, to the extent a guy my age can be with kids of college age, I've become friends with many of the NCC players, including Mitch, Derek, and Connor Raridon. I still see several graduates fairly regularly, continuing friendships first developed while they were members of the team as far back as 2006. I've been honored to have been invited and have attended several of the former players weddings. I have also become friends with some of the players parents over the years. I'm fortunate to have been accepted by the NCC family to the extent I have been over the course of several years now, and I'm thankful, especially to the coaches, for both accepting me, and putting up with me to the extent they have and do. Hope that answers it for you.

... and there ain't nothing wrong with that. Mark's story is an example of the beauty of D3. A local fan, even a non-alumnus, can adopt a team on this level and, if he cares enough, become pretty close to that team and establish himself as something of an insider just through constant support. (Heck, my hero Hopefan does this with an entire league. ) If this was D1, we'd be talking about a fat cat crossing somebody's palm with some illicit cash, or providing student-athletes with low-work or no-work jobs on the side. Mark's story is actually not that unusual for D3, although he's become a little closer to the NCC men's basketball program than is the norm for this sort of thing.

This is something to be celebrated and applauded. It's another take on the "every seat in the house is a good seat" intimacy of D3 hoops that is a selling point for this level of college basketball.

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of Juwan Henry, congrats to him upon being named North Park Male Athlete of the Year at the annual senior awards ceremony.

I have to laugh at myself for overlooking him at first during the preseason of his freshman year. This was my first post about NPU's class of '17:

It's way too early to make any sort of evaluation of the Vikings -- waay too early -- but a couple of the freshmen who've looked promising so far are 6'0 guard JayQuan Lee from West Aurora and 6'6 wing Byron Burt from Mather.

This was in spite of Tom Slyder's insisting to me that he'd unearthed a hidden gem of a ballplayer from Bogan, and the fact that I'd watched a number of open gyms prior to October 15. But notice that I overlooked not one, but two future All-CCIW players from that freshman crop of Vikings.

It's good to look back on stuff like that in order to keep myself on my toes.

[kiko]

I know that I tease Chuck a lot, and that he has shown some baffling gaps in his knowledge from time to time, but he is a genuine soccer fan. He's even coached the sport. He and Tom (Greek Tragedy) are, in fact, two of the biggest soccer fans who post in these rooms. (Although, oddly enough, Chuck seldom posts in the D3 soccer rooms, and I've never seen Tom post in there.) I know that Chuck is much more likely to be up on Ronaldo than I am.

Fair, but you're both on the plus-side of 40.  If you are aware of CR7, that means either (a) some agency grunt has done a poor job of targeting for whatever media they're buying, or (b) you're skewing the demographics on some of the media you consume.  CR7 as a brand extends pretty broadly in the entertainment/celebrity realm in a way that transcends soccer, but isn't really geared for the olds.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish the last 20 pages in my copy of "Titans at Large".  There's a really good article about the walk-on mezzo-soprano who worked their way from understudy to starting cast member last year. 

[izzy stradlin]

Izzy,

In answer to your question....

I became a casual fan of NCC several years ago. Just attended mainly basketball and some football games because I like the D3 structure as opposed to the big business based model of college sports that D1 operates under. I also live only 5 minutes away so it was natural to take an interest in the local team, especially considering the campus is practically in my back yard. I played basketball and football in HS, and basketball in college, and am pretty much of a sports nut. My interest and attachment increased when Todd Raridon was hired because he came to NCC from the school I attended--so no, I'm not a NCC alum. Neither is my wife, nor my son.
I'm merely a good fan who is both devoted and loyal. I am not a NCC employee and never have been.
In addition to being a good fan, I have, over the years, become friendly with the basketball staff. I've known Todd Raridon for 12 1/2 years now. Being retired and being so close to campus I have the opportunity to spend a good amount of time at the gym, often several days a week. So, even though I'm not an employee, I'm pretty ingrained in the team fabric. I often watch open gym in the fall and spring, and go to many summer league games. Over the years, to the extent a guy my age can be with kids of college age, I've become friends with many of the NCC players, including Mitch, Derek, and Connor Raridon. I still see several graduates fairly regularly, continuing friendships first developed while they were members of the team as far back as 2006. I've been honored to have been invited and have attended several of the former players weddings. I have also become friends with some of the players parents over the years. I'm fortunate to have been accepted by the NCC family to the extent I have been over the course of several years now, and I'm thankful, especially to the coaches, for both accepting me, and putting up with me to the extent they have and do. Hope that answers it for you.

As far as your accusation of being biased, sure I am to some degree. But so are almost all of our posters toward their teams. Tell me you're not with regard to your team. Also, many people confuse bias with fact. I might say something that appears biased to some degree. But because I'm actually there, as close to the situation as I often am, its factual despite how it might sound. Something you need to consider when filing a charge of bias.

And now, an honest question for you. Why do you often take a confrontational position with regard to NCC? For instance on Feb 18, you fired a sarcastic remark regarding Connor's absence when I said IWU, in attempting to qualify for the conference tournament, was lucky they got to play NCC minus C. Raridon. This just seems to be a situation that is particularly grating to you. If you know anything about basketball, which I believe you certainly do, why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that IWU had a much better chance against NCC without CR than with him? Thank you, Izzy.

I have nothing at all against NCC.   John Thorne and Todd Raridon were two of the best CCIW coaches I have seen hired since I started following the conference.  It's people playing the victim/what if card over and over again that I and others don't like.    If only,  If only..... etc.    I will even grant you that what you are saying is true and go a step further--    If Connor Raridon hadn't gotten injured, NCC would have won the national title.    So what?  That didn't happen.   If Michael Jordan hadn't played minor league baseball (basically a mental injury), the Bulls would've won 8 straight titles.  Maybe.   Do you think the Rockets fans care or want to hear that over and over???

[Pat Coleman]

And for me to notice the drumbeating, considering I really didn't do much more than skim the basketball boards this year, should state to the nature of it.

[Greek Tragedy]

I know that I tease Chuck a lot, and that he has shown some baffling gaps in his knowledge from time to time, but he is a genuine soccer fan. He's even coached the sport. He and Tom (Greek Tragedy) are, in fact, two of the biggest soccer fans who post in these rooms. (Although, oddly enough, Chuck seldom posts in the D3 soccer rooms, and I've never seen Tom post in there.) I know that Chuck is much more likely to be up on Ronaldo than I am.

Fair, but you're both on the plus-side of 40.  If you are aware of CR7, that means either (a) some agency grunt has done a poor job of targeting for whatever media they're buying, or (b) you're skewing the demographics on some of the media you consume.  CR7 as a brand extends pretty broadly in the entertainment/celebrity realm in a way that transcends soccer, but isn't really geared for the olds.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish the last 20 pages in my copy of "Titans at Large".  There's a really good article about the walk-on mezzo-soprano who worked their way from understudy to starting cast member last year. 

I'm actually on the plus side of 40 too, but don't tell anyone. Yeah, I rarely post on the d3 soccer board. And, I'm not a HUGE soccer fan either. I mean, compared to 99% of the posters here, yeah. I really only follow one team and one league, but do keep up with the other big European leagues, Champions League and of course the national teams and World Cup, which looks like it's coming back to the U.S. I don't follow MLS as much as I should though and I'm guessing less than 10% of Cubs fans had no idea who Bastian Schweinsteiger was when he threw out the first pitch at the Cubs game earlier this season.

Anyway, enough soccer talk. I'm guessing CR32 is already back to full health? If so, NCC should be a preseason top 10 and Augie a top 5 team going into next season.

[Veinteuno]

Augustana announces their recruiting class. Looks to be a solid group that should mesh well with last year's freshman class. http://athletics.augustana.edu/news/2017/5/10/augustana-announces-mens-basketball-recruiting-class.aspx

[Augie6]

Augustana announces their recruiting class. Looks to be a solid group that should mesh well with last year's freshman class. http://athletics.augustana.edu/news/2017/5/10/augustana-announces-mens-basketball-recruiting-class.aspx

Really interesting class.  Glad Dillon chose Augie.  If he continues to progress like he did from his Junior to Senior year at WWS, he could have a really good career at Augie.  The kid from Montenegro is a really intriguing recruit.  Sounds like a really good get for a DIII school.  Also interesting that they are pulling kids from Washington state, California and Ohio.  Some really good pieces here for Augie.