MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[voxelmhurst]

Speaking simply as a fan, I've taken great entertainment from the likes of Grey, Bosko, Raridon, Trost, et al, over the years. I also think a distinction should be made between "jerk" (or worse) and simply "intense/crazy", though depending on the scenario these can all be compliments. 

I've also long believed that since cciw games are often played before crowds of just a few hundred, the actions and words of the coaches are far more pronounced than they would be in front of crowds of 10-15k.

[AndOne]

Speaking simply as a fan, I've taken great entertainment from the likes of Grey, Bosko, Raridon, Trost, et al, over the years. I also think a distinction should be made between "jerk" (or worse) and simply "intense/crazy", though depending on the scenario these can all be compliments. 

Exactly. 

[AndOne]

Greg,

Thanks for your list. Very interesting. The gap between #1 and #2 says a lot.
My list would be:
1. Giovanine (I think I've lost my 🧠)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Schauer (Am I happy or in misery 🤔)
3. Slyder (but he is slipping due to what Greg indicated)
4. Combs (due to seeing him only once I had forgotten about last year's exhibition as well)
5. Raridon (PhD in acupuncture)
6. Bosko (like wine he has mellowed a bit)
7. 🌹 (not boisterous but constant 🍷ing—my players don't know how to foul!  )
8. Baines
9. Scherer (can I get a 🍺?)

Buy the end of the season Slyder and Combs may switch positions.

Lastly, if your inclination is to defend Giovanine, keep in mind that not just a couple, but about every poster from across all the conference teams would rank him first by a wide margin.

[voxelmhurst]

8. Baines
9. Scherer

I agree that both Coach Baines and Scherer, evaluated by college basketball coaching standards, are on the subdued end of the spectrum. This does mean that sporadic moments of demonstrative behavior are all the more hilarious. One of my favorite Coach Scherer moments during this EC tenure was at a game at Carthage during the second half of a close game in a season where Elmhurst was just on the outside of a Pool C berth. A Carthage player had wrapped both arms around the torso of an Elmhurst player receiving a pass and was somehow not whistled for a foul. Scherer stormed out on the court during the next whistle and, using the same poor EC player as a prop, demonstrated exactly what the Carthage player had done while screaming to the ref 'HE HAD HIM LIKE THIS! HE HAD HIM LIKE THIS!"

Another big favorite of mine was at when Scherer would leverage Brent Ruch's All-American status when working the refs. Once at North Park, Ruch tried a fadeaway that, in a very dubious manner, missed everything and sailed out of bounds. The refs called it out of bounds and possession to North Park. Scherer deadpans, "He's an All-American, do you meant to tell me he just shot that ball out of bounds? No foul? No tip?"

All part of the show. 

[all blues]

8. Baines
9. Scherer

I would just like to stick up for Coach Baines-his conduct caused the officials to request that he leave last season's contest at Millikin early, and, bereft of his guidance, Elmhurst went on to give the Big Blue their only conference win, 66-41   

[Gregory Sager]

I've only seen Combs the once, and I'd completely forgotten about the towel thing.

Highlight of the night so far: Bosko Djurickovic and John Baines yelling at each other nose-to-nose at the scorer's table.

I'm going to have to pull that video up. Here I thought the Paul Combs-Todd Raridon exchange last night was the highlight. Raridon was unhappy about a call at the same time as the officials found a wet spot on the floor and wanted a towel to wipe it up. Carroll's manager went out to wipe it, as did Raridon, at which point Combs took a shot at Raridon along the lines of "3000 students at your school and you don't even have a manager!" Raridon fired back something about his manager filming the game upstairs. After the floor was wiped, Combs thanked his manager, and Raridon chirped at him, "I was out here too, are you going to thank me?" Combs answered in the negative, and there a brief moment where I thought I'd have our first coach fight. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, but it was pretty chippy last night.

I'll have to go back and rewatch that in between rewatching Alex Sorenson completely destroying Robert Morris yesterday.

It was actually your postgame account of the towel incident that led me to watch the archived CU @ NCC game last season. The Battle of the Towel was hugely entertaining, and if I forgot to thank you then for the viewing tip, please accept it now. The Djurickovic vs. Baines smackdown was a surprise because it was so completely unexpected, but for sheer theatricality they had nothing on what went on in the airplane hangar that night between Combs and Raridon (who uncharacteristically found himself on the defensive in that chirping contest).

Other underrated one that could make a case for pushing Schauer up a notch: his demand for (and receipt of) an out of the box warning when Wheaton came to North Central last year because he just wanted to get the refs to listen to him.

I'd forgotten about that incident. It was clearly one of the most hilarious (and clever, from Schauer's perspective, albeit strangely poignant as well) coach vs. officials contretemps in recent CCIW history.

I feel like most good college basketball coaches have to have a screw or two loose, as evidenced by most of the names on this list. Or in Grey's case, maybe 10-12 screws loose.

I think that the enclosed space of a gym, especially in the relatively close confines endemic to D3, can kind of play up these incidents in ways that exaggerate them. Yeah, there's a certain amount of thwarted thespian that comes out in coaches when they don't get a call -- and sometimes a bit of heat-of-the-moment juvenile behavior as well that I'd like to think most of them retrospectively regret when they're home with their families later on that evening -- but, if you closely observe their football, soccer, and baseball peers, you'll see pretty much the same level of intensity, and the same occasional straying over the line of adult decorum. It's especially true in baseball; as Mr. B will attest, those of you who don't follow CCIW baseball are missing a real treat in terms of occasional loose-screw behavior, in the grand tradition of that sport, especially in the subset category of head coach vs. head coach hostility. But, as I said, I think it's the confined indoor space that makes it all so noticeable in the case of basketball coaches.

(Coaches in the women's sports, by contrast, tend to be far, far less demonstrative and/or agitated to the point of misbehavior than are their men's sports peers, or at least that's true in the CCIW. Make of that what you will.)

Speaking simply as a fan, I've taken great entertainment from the likes of Grey, Bosko, Raridon, Trost, et al, over the years. I also think a distinction should be made between "jerk" (or worse) and simply "intense/crazy", though depending on the scenario these can all be compliments. 

I've also long believed that since cciw games are often played before crowds of just a few hundred, the actions and words of the coaches are far more pronounced than they would be in front of crowds of 10-15k.

Both very good points.

Lastly, if your inclination is to defend Giovanine, keep in mind that not just a couple, but about every poster from across all the conference teams would rank him first by a wide margin.

Defending Giovanine? Hardly. As you said yourself, the gap I put between #1 and #2 says a lot. Grey's in a class all by himself; in fact, I can't think of another coach that I've ever seen at the D3 level who is quite like him ... and, boy, have I seen a lot of D3 coaches in action over the past almost-forty years. Pat Miller at UW-Whitewater can be quite vituperative on the sideline, f'rinstance, and I used to worry that the old Carroll coach, Dave Fink, would have a cerebrovascular accident whenever he'd start screaming and get all red-faced during a game. And Grey Giovanine's distant Augustana predecessor Jim Borcherding, who, like Grey and Pat Miller, was an incredibly successful head coach in terms of W-L and championships, used to leap straight up out of his chair with such verve at a bad call that we used to call him "the Jack-In-The-Box". But nobody I've ever seen in D3 has really combined the whole panoply of crazy and by turns amusing and disturbing behavior the way that Grey does.

8. Baines
9. Scherer

I agree that both Coach Baines and Scherer, evaluated by college basketball coaching standards, are on the subdued end of the spectrum. This does mean that sporadic moments of demonstrative behavior are all the more hilarious. One of my favorite Coach Scherer moments during this EC tenure was at a game at Carthage during the second half of a close game in a season where Elmhurst was just on the outside of a Pool C berth. A Carthage player had wrapped both arms around the torso of an Elmhurst player receiving a pass and was somehow not whistled for a foul. Scherer stormed out on the court during the next whistle and, using the same poor EC player as a prop, demonstrated exactly what the Carthage player had done while screaming to the ref 'HE HAD HIM LIKE THIS! HE HAD HIM LIKE THIS!"

Another big favorite of mine was at when Scherer would leverage Brent Ruch's All-American status when working the refs. Once at North Park, Ruch tried a fadeaway that, in a very dubious manner, missed everything and sailed out of bounds. The refs called it out of bounds and possession to North Park. Scherer deadpans, "He's an All-American, do you meant to tell me he just shot that ball out of bounds? No foul? No tip?"

All part of the show. 

Both great stories ... and, since I would've been working the table as official scorer at the time, I wonder how I somehow missed the Ruch incident in the crackerbox. I would've gained a lot of pleasure out of retelling that story afterwards.

8. Baines
9. Scherer

I would just like to stick up for Coach Baines-his conduct caused the officials to request that he leave last season's contest at Millikin early, and, bereft of his guidance, Elmhurst went on to give the Big Blue their only conference win, 66-41   

Hmm ... between that and his spaghetti-western Mexican standoff with Bosko at the Faganel Hall scorer's table last season, perhaps I've been scoring John too low in this category. He's just so low-key most of the time. Perhaps he's just really good at picking his spots for when to really let loose.

[iwu70]

Amazing scoring show by Sorenson, living up to his All-American status.  Was there any defense on the guy?   Makes the defensive effort and outcome against IWU look all that better!   LOL   NCC is playing so well, getting scary.  Glad my Titans got a win against them early.  Going to be a lot tougher now.

Now the serious CCIW games begin.

Already 2018 here in Asia -- Happy New Year, all.

IWU'70

[iwu70]

On the Coaches discussion, I'm sure glad Ron Rose is in the cut of Dennie Bridges -- not really much sideline antics, no raving or nonsense with officials or clothes.  Come in prepared and leave the screaming for practice.

Happy New Year, all -- we've left 2017 behind.

IWU'70

[kiko]

Amazing scoring show by Sorenson, living up to his All-American status.  Was there any defense on the guy?   Makes the defensive effort and outcome against IWU look all that better!   LOL   NCC is playing so well, getting scary.  Glad my Titans got a win against them early.  Going to be a lot tougher now.

Now the serious CCIW games begin.

Already 2018 here in Asia -- Happy New Year, all.

IWU'70

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan for Alex Sorenson's school-record 54 point effort versus Robert Morris-Chicago!

[GoPerry]

Amazing scoring show by Sorenson, living up to his All-American status.  Was there any defense on the guy?   Makes the defensive effort and outcome against IWU look all that better!   LOL   NCC is playing so well, getting scary.  Glad my Titans got a win against them early.  Going to be a lot tougher now.

Now the serious CCIW games begin.

Already 2018 here in Asia -- Happy New Year, all.

IWU'70

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan for Alex Sorenson's school-record 54 point effort versus Robert Morris-Chicago!

Ha- good one!! Very much a laugh out loud .  +1k

[Gregory Sager]

Amazing scoring show by Sorenson, living up to his All-American status.  Was there any defense on the guy?   Makes the defensive effort and outcome against IWU look all that better!   LOL   NCC is playing so well, getting scary.  Glad my Titans got a win against them early.  Going to be a lot tougher now.

Now the serious CCIW games begin.

Already 2018 here in Asia -- Happy New Year, all.

IWU'70

Congratulations to Illinois Wesleyan for Alex Sorenson's school-record 54 point effort versus Robert Morris-Chicago!

Ha- good one!! Very much a laugh out loud .  +1k

ROTFL! Kudos, kiko!

This really needs its own meme. I, for one, would drive it into the ground like a grad student with a rusted-out Ford Pinto.

God bless iwu70, or, as I like to think of him, Shillosaurus Rex.

[iwu70]

Well, guys, was there any defense on him?  No one is saying. 

Sorenson vs. IWU  15 points in a loss
Sorenson vs. Robert Morris 54 points in a blowout.

I'm sure you'all are going to say it's all just because Sorenson is so brilliant, which I've all along said he is -- likely first team CCIW.   

But come on, guys -- you don't get 54 against any kind of defense.  When I played, a guy going off like that would be knocked to the ground, knocked out with a hard foul. 

Shillosaurus Rex -- names provided by Greg I consider a badge of honor.

[iwu70]

Greg -- good one on the Ford Pinto . . . +1.  (My Dad had a Henry J once, too).   

'70

[lmitzel]

Well, guys, was there any defense on him?  No one is saying. 

Sorenson vs. IWU  15 points in a loss
Sorenson vs. Robert Morris 54 points in a blowout.

I'm sure you'all are going to say it's all just because Sorenson is so brilliant, which I've all along said he is -- likely first team CCIW.   

But come on, guys -- you don't get 54 against any kind of defense.  When I played, a guy going off like that would be knocked to the ground, knocked out with a hard foul. 

Shillosaurus Rex -- names provided by Greg I consider a badge of honor.

Robert Morris ran basically a four guard lineup out there the whole time, with a 6'7" forward in the middle who was completely outmatched. Most of Sorenson's damage was in the paint on some post moves with limited double teaming until later in the game, but he also went 1-2 from beyond the arc, and was probably 7-8 or something like that from midrange. He went coast to coast for one layup, and broke the record on a follow up on a fast break.

I definitely think they tried, but it was one of those nights where they had no answer for him. When he's hitting from midrange too, there really wasn't anything else they could do short of doubling him at all times, and even then...

[Titan Q]

A look at CCIW personnel by position, sorted by PPG...

PG (1)
Colin Lake (NPU), 5-7/175 Sr. 22.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.1 apg
Jordan Thomas (CC), 5-11/183 Jr. 20.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 2.6 apg
Brady Rose (IWU), 6-3/185 Jr.  20.3 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.2 apg
Jake Rhode (EC), 5-10/165 Fr. 15.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg
Nolan Ebel (AC), 6-1/175 Jr.  13.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 3.3 apg
Erwin Henry (NCC), 6-2/200 Sr. 13.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.0 apg
Ray Pierce (CU), 6-0/175 Jr. 9.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg
Luke Peters (WC), 6-3/170 Jr. 6.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.3 apg
Levi Laws (MU), 6-0/202 Jr. 6.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.9 apg

SG (2)
Aston Francis (WC), 6-1/190 Jr. 26.2 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.3 apg
Chrishawn Orange (AC), 6-2/180 Jr. 16.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.1 apg
Colin Bonnett (IWU), 6-4/190 Jr.  11.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 2.8 apg
Ryan Patton (EC), 6-2/190 So. 10.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.2 apg
Joel Heesch (CU), 6-2/170 Sr. 9.9 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.8 apg
Zach Fisher (MU), 6-4/167 So. 9.1 ppg, 2.9 ppg, 1.2 rpg
Derek Mason (CC), 5-10/175 Sr. 10.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.1 apg
Aiden Change (NCC), 6-3/175 Jr. 6.6 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 2.6 rpg
Jack Gurvey (NPU), 6-1/160 Jr. 2.4 ppg, 2.1 apg, 1.4 apg

G/F (3)
Ricky Samuelson (WC), 6-3/185 Sr. 19.2 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.9 apg
Billy Kirby (NPU), 6-3/190 Jr. 13.4 ppg, 3.7 apg, 2.2 apg
DeVante Harrell (MU), 6-6/200 Jr. 13.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.8 apg
Dylan Sortillo (AC), 6/3/180 Sr.  12.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.5 apg
Derek Dotlich (EC), 6-3/205 So. 11.9 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.5 apg
Matt Cappelletti (NCC), 6-5/200 So. 6.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg
Jason Gregoire (IWU), 6-4/195 Jr.  5.8 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 1.8 apg
Troy Howat (CU), 6-2/175 Jr. 5.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.5 apg
Kamal Shasi (CC), 6-2/184 Sr. 3.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.2 apg

F (4)
Brad Kruse (CC), 6-4/202 Sr. 15.9 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 2.6 apg
Elijah Henry (MU), 6-7/220 Jr. 15.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg
Connor Raridon (NCC), 6-6/210 So. 15.7 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.1 apg
Lavon Thomas (EC), 6-5/255 Fr. 9.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg
Tanner Zaeske (CU), 6-3/190 Sr. 9.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg
Matt Szuba (NPU), 6-6/210 Fr. 8.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.8 apg
Jaylen Beasley (IWU), 6-6/185 Sr.  8.1 ppg, 7.8 rpg
Brett Benning (AC), 6-6/191 Jr. 7.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg
Jay Spencer (WC), 6-8/180 So. 5.2 ppg, 4.1 rpg

F/C (5)
Alex Sorenson (NCC), 6-8/235 Sr. 18.4 ppg, 9.7 rpg
Jeremy Ireland (EC), 6-7/225 Jr. 15.6 ppg, 10.6 rpg
Brad Perry (CC), 6-11/285 So. 11.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg
Tyler Ingebrightsen (CU), 6-7/225 Jr. 9.1 ppg, 2.7 rpg
Alex O'Neill (IWU), 6-9/245 So.  8.0 ppg, 5.2 rpg
Jordan Cunningham (MU), 6-6/295 So. 6.6 ppg, 6.1 rpg
Micah Martin (AC), 6-11/240 So. 6.3 ppg, 3.9 rpg
Trevor Gunter (WC), 6-6/195 Jr. 4.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg
Vergard Tangen (NPU), 6-6/210 So. 1.0 ppg, 1.4 rpg

Bench (4.0+ PPG)
Mike Pollack (G, NCC), 6-3/180 Fr. 11.8 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 2.2 apg
Michael Beaty (G, MU), 6-1/223 Jr. 9.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg
Zach Knobloch (G, IWU), 6-2/180 So.  8.9 ppg
Lance Gardner (F, EC), 6-7/195 Jr. 8.3 ppg, 4.9 rpg
Korbin Farmer (F, MU), 6-7/180 So. 5.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg
Spencer Peterson (F, WC), 6-5/230 So. 5.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg
Charlie Soule (G, CU), 6-2/185 So. 5.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg
Blaise Meredith (G, NCC), 6-4/182 Fr. 5.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg
Carson Frakes (F, AC), 6-5/179 Fr. 5.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg
Nick Penny (G, CU), 6-2/185 So. 4.9 ppg
A.J. Dollmeyer (C, AC), 6-9/260 Sr. 4.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg
Ryan Clarey (G, CU), 6-0/180 Fr. 4.5 ppg
Juston Fox (F, EC), 6-5/190 Fr. 4.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg
Peyton Sampson (F, EC), 6-4/205 Fr. 4.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg
Miles Curry (F, IWU), 6-6/205 So.  4.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg
Matt Mohr (F, NPU), 6-6/190 Fr. 4.0 ppg, 6.1 rpg
Aaron Reed (G, NPU), 6-2/160 Fr. 4.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg
Grant Wolfe (G, IWU), 5-11/175 Fr.  4.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.4 apg