MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

As Greg has mentioned, it was a close game til the last 4 minutes.  You can't say AC over-powered NPU, as they didn't, and Lake had a poor shooting day.  If that's how the #10 team in the country is supposed to play, then I'm not terribly impressed. NPU is not exactly the powerhouse of the league this year, though they gave AC a pretty good game.   IMHO.

CC comes back to win in Decatur, in OT, 91-82.  I think MU ran out of gas.

Here we go in round two of the league -- down the stretch we go. IWU will obviously have their hands full with EC at home.

'70

Greg is right.  Both teams did a lot of running up and down the court.  Augustana kept themselves in the game with defense.

Millikin should have won the game in regulation.  Rarely does Bosko lose in an OT contest.  I think Millikin just does not yet have five guys used to playing together as opposed to running out of gas.  But watch out in the second half of the regular CCIW season as Millikin will get better.  There is some talent on Millikin.

Happened twice this year already where Carthage lost in OT.  Calvin College and IIT.

Mark it's okay to say nice things about your home town team every once in awhile. People close with the program understand where your allegiances are but come on.

Why are you getting on his case for setting the record straight?

[kenoshamark]

As Greg has mentioned, it was a close game til the last 4 minutes.  You can't say AC over-powered NPU, as they didn't, and Lake had a poor shooting day.  If that's how the #10 team in the country is supposed to play, then I'm not terribly impressed. NPU is not exactly the powerhouse of the league this year, though they gave AC a pretty good game.   IMHO.

CC comes back to win in Decatur, in OT, 91-82.  I think MU ran out of gas.

Here we go in round two of the league -- down the stretch we go. IWU will obviously have their hands full with EC at home.

'70

Greg is right.  Both teams did a lot of running up and down the court.  Augustana kept themselves in the game with defense.

Millikin should have won the game in regulation.  Rarely does Bosko lose in an OT contest.  I think Millikin just does not yet have five guys used to playing together as opposed to running out of gas.  But watch out in the second half of the regular CCIW season as Millikin will get better.  There is some talent on Millikin.

Happened twice this year already where Carthage lost in OT.  Calvin College and IIT.

Mark it's okay to say nice things about your home town team every once in awhile. People close with the program understand where your allegiances are but come on.

It was a very interesting game tonight. One carthage did not deserve to win, but I've learned that doesn't matter.  it's already been said on here tonight, a road win in this league is not easy!  Doesn't get any easier for the red men who have a night off Wednesday before heading to rock island.

Interesting...so people close with the program understand where my allegiances are?  Would love to hear more on this topic.  I was only commenting on the point about Carthage/Bosko rarely losing an OT game.  It has happened twice this year so explain to me what I said that was out of line that caused you to chime in?

[Red and black]

As Greg has mentioned, it was a close game til the last 4 minutes.  You can't say AC over-powered NPU, as they didn't, and Lake had a poor shooting day.  If that's how the #10 team in the country is supposed to play, then I'm not terribly impressed. NPU is not exactly the powerhouse of the league this year, though they gave AC a pretty good game.   IMHO.

CC comes back to win in Decatur, in OT, 91-82.  I think MU ran out of gas.

Here we go in round two of the league -- down the stretch we go. IWU will obviously have their hands full with EC at home.

'70

Greg is right.  Both teams did a lot of running up and down the court.  Augustana kept themselves in the game with defense.

Millikin should have won the game in regulation.  Rarely does Bosko lose in an OT contest.  I think Millikin just does not yet have five guys used to playing together as opposed to running out of gas.  But watch out in the second half of the regular CCIW season as Millikin will get better.  There is some talent on Millikin.

Happened twice this year already where Carthage lost in OT.  Calvin College and IIT.

Mark it's okay to say nice things about your home town team every once in awhile. People close with the program understand where your allegiances are but come on.

Why are you getting on his case for setting the record straight?

Carthage has Little presence on this board. Everyone knows how loyal yourself, Q, andone etc are their teams. It just would be nice to see a positive note on here about the red men from their only "supporter."  May not have been the right time, but it hasn't just been that post.

[Gregory Sager]

Carthage has Little presence on this board. Everyone knows how loyal yourself, Q, andone etc are their teams. It just would be nice to see a positive note on here about the red men from their only "supporter."  May not have been the right time, but it hasn't just been that post.

The posters I respect are the ones who are both honest and accurate, above and beyond partisan loyalty. That's why I respect K-Mark.

He's been posting here for two decades. We don't need to see him wave his pom-pons in order to know that he is a diehard fan of his alma mater's team.

[kenoshamark]

Red and Black,

Get back to the point...you said people close to the program know where my allegiances are.  If you have some connections to the program then come clean....I've followed Carthage for many years and was a diehard fan for many years....I've been to more games than I can even begin to count.  If you think I'm just going to say nice things all the time, well that ended a few years ago. 

All I brought up was the point that it will be interesting to see how the roles for Perry and Johnson play out over the next few years. 

[kenoshamark]

http://athletics.carthage.edu/boxscore.aspx?id=5599&path=mbball

I didn't watch the live feed so I was going off the box score... based on that and what I posted a few days ago, I found it interesting that it "appeared" Johnson started tonight.   My bad !!!!

[Red and black]

Red and Black,

Get back to the point...you said people close to the program know where my allegiances are.  If you have some connections to the program then come clean....I've followed Carthage for many years and was a diehard fan for many years....I've been to more games than I can even begin to count.  If you think I'm just going to say nice things all the time, well that ended a few years ago. 

All I brought up was the point that it will be interesting to see how the roles for Perry and Johnson play out over the next few years.

I don't have the connections I once had maybe that's what sparked my frustration when reading here. I apologize for that, but you did just say it ended a few years ago. So maybe over the last few years things coming from you on here have seemed negative. Just my opinion no right or wrong answer sorry for how it came across.

As far as the game. Those two playing together will be very interesting.  I'd like to think over time they start to play more and more together. 

[kiko]

For NCC's chances for the post-season, that loss in EC is pretty big, pretty damaging.

'70

I'm not so sure.  It's just a road loss. A win would have been better of course.  But they have 8 games left, 5 home, 3 away games (@ Carthage, @ Wheaton, @ IWU).  If they can go 6-2 the rest of the way, it's looking like 5 losses gets into the Conf tournament.

Rhode really hurt NCC during that critical 2nd half stretch when the 'Jays extended the lead.

I think he meant from a Pool C standpoint.  This puts the Sons of Warden at 12-5, so to use your 6-2 finish as an example, that would leave North Central at either 19-8 or 18-8 if they make the conference tournament but come out of it looking for a Pool C bid.  Thats... likely not a comfortable place to be, especially with their current record versus teams likely to be regionally ranked.  And, there are a few grinders remaining on the schedule, so a 6-2 finish is certainly anything but assured.

I had missed that this was scheduled at the same time as the dinner rush at Old Country Buffet, so didn't tune in until there was seven and change left in the game.  If you looked at North Central's statline at the time in a vacuum, you would have assumed they were in good shape.  They were shooting above 50% from the floor at the time, above 40% from beyond the arc, and over 80% from the line; they were outrebounding the Jays at the time; and turnovers were more or less even. Gotta give credit to Elmhurst for shooting even better, and for roaring back from that double-digit deficit in the first half.

[bopol]

With regards to Carthage, I've noticed that Perry has issues defending centers with good outside shots.  He likes to camp under the basket and bang and, if he is pulled out to defend, he just isn't quick enough to get back into position on a drive.  Johnson, on the other hand, can come out and still defend the basket.  He's a little quicker than Perry, but I swear he's got long arms for his height too and, even if he give up position under the basket, he can still use his long arms to block a shot.

So, I wonder if Bosko will pick and choose a little which guy he wants to go with more based on the opponent.  And, honestly, I don't think Perry can go more than 25 minutes a game at this point and I have my doubts about Johnson going that long as well (I know he did tonight, but he was falling over awfully easily in OT).

To me, the key for Carthage making a second half run is getting everyone in synch, which means getting Baltimore integrated as I think Kruse has done a little less since Baltimore's return and it was Kruse's fine second half that sealed the deal against Elmhurst last Saturday and he really took care of business tonight.  The mix of Thomas, Shasi and Mason makes for some fine guard play and Leazer is a plus defender.  That's a really solid 8 if they can play together to the best of their ability for the last 8 games.

[iwu70]

Greg, I have no problem with Augie "earning" their win.  They did play good D toward the end.  I was just commenting that they didn't really play all that great -- yes, they do what they do -- we've all seen that over the years, but I just think they are, with performances so far this year, over-rated.  That's all.  As we've seen, they didn't just "do what they do" twice already in league play.   As we all say, any road win in the CCIW is good.  And, they got one against your guys tonight -- but it was pretty close, even with them running guys in and out, as you mentioned.  Lake is struggling, so things could have been different and you would have had the big upset.  Luckily, I don't have to "deal with" anything.  My TITANS did just fine and are sitting solo atop the league at the turn, to my surprise, even as an IWU shill.  If anyone has to "deal with" stuff, it would seem to be the NCC team and fans.  Just IMHO.

IWU'70 

[iwu70]

Kiko hit it on the head re: NCC and their chances for post-season play.  That's what I meant, should have said more.

'70

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, I have no problem with Augie "earning" their win.  They did play good D toward the end.  I was just commenting that they didn't really play all that great -- yes, they do what they do -- we've all seen that over the years, but I just think they are, with performances so far this year, over-rated.  That's all.

Um, no. That's not all. You said this:

Augie, lucky to get out of town.  Any road win in CCIW is a good win.

That's very different from what you just posted, in which you conceded that Augie earned its win. "Lucky to get out of town" and earning a win are diametric opposites. And now you're changing your tune and making this about Augie's season, which really had nothing at all to do with your original post. Also, Augie did more than just "play good D toward the end" -- the Doggies held NPU to 32% shooting from the field for the game, and, as I said, my alma mater's team only scored a grand total of five two-point baskets throughout the entire contest.

Augie played 35 minutes of let-them-hang-around basketball, which is not a good thing but which is also an occasional hazard for even great Augustana teams (and I'm not at all saying that this Augustana team is great at this point), due to the program's preferred playing style. And then Augustana played the five most flawless minutes I've seen any team play thus far this year, either in person or online (with the exception of that stretch when Wash U ran up a blizzard of points on IWU in the first half of that game back in December at Shirk), because the Augie D was so airtight in that final five minutes that the visitors were even blocking shots 22 feet out on the floor. That was more than enough reason for the Doggies to walk off the court feeling that they had done a good night's work.

Did Augie play a great game? No, by no means. Did Augie earn the win? Absolutely. Was Augie "lucky to get out of town"? Not on your life.

[Titan Q]

Augie, lucky to get out of town.  Any road win in CCIW is a good win.

'70

I also don't think it was lucky.  I thought Augustana just did all the things they needed to do down the stretch to win...they played well in closing it out.

Very few CCIW games are blowouts. Even highly ranked teams often have to scrap and claw and execute in the final 5 minutes to earn a win.  Great teams get it done...like Augie did last night.

[GoPerry]

For NCC's chances for the post-season, that loss in EC is pretty big, pretty damaging.

'70

I'm not so sure.  It's just a road loss. A win would have been better of course.  But they have 8 games left, 5 home, 3 away games (@ Carthage, @ Wheaton, @ IWU).  If they can go 6-2 the rest of the way, it's looking like 5 losses gets into the Conf tournament.

Rhode really hurt NCC during that critical 2nd half stretch when the 'Jays extended the lead.

I think he meant from a Pool C standpoint.  This puts the Sons of Warden at 12-5, so to use your 6-2 finish as an example, that would leave North Central at either 19-8 or 18-8 if they make the conference tournament but come out of it looking for a Pool C bid.  Thats... likely not a comfortable place to be, especially with their current record versus teams likely to be regionally ranked.  And, there are a few grinders remaining on the schedule, so a 6-2 finish is certainly anything but assured.

I had missed that this was scheduled at the same time as the dinner rush at Old Country Buffet, so didn't tune in until there was seven and change left in the game.  If you looked at North Central's statline at the time in a vacuum, you would have assumed they were in good shape.  They were shooting above 50% from the floor at the time, above 40% from beyond the arc, and over 80% from the line; they were outrebounding the Jays at the time; and turnovers were more or less even. Gotta give credit to Elmhurst for shooting even better, and for roaring back from that double-digit deficit in the first half.

From an at-large standpoint, yeah, got it.  It's a little early to be talking about Pool C (although not that early), but the point is well taken.  When you consider that every Pool C candidate has the extra loss from the Conf tourney, IWU and Augie, with 3(4) losses each, seem to be the only ones in decent shape.  Both Wheaton 4(5) and NCC 5(6) have little or no room for any further bad losses.  This is why last night's win over IIT, while only a non-con, was important for the Thunder to get.

Love OCB by the way (cinnamon roles!).  Wish they hadn't closed so many a few years ago.

[AppletonRocks]

One distinct advantage that Carthage and Carroll have is that they are not located in a state that is solvent and funds employee pensions.