MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Greek Tragedy]

Tom, it cracks me up that you're so into the English Premier League that you use British turns of phrase such as "adrift of first place" when you talk about it.

Not only did Man U lose their SID, they fired sacked their manager today. They just lost to their bitter rivals over the weekend and are 19 points adrift of 1st place. To top things off they...oh wait, wrong Man U.

...as you were...

Fixed it.

[Gregory Sager]

Tom, it cracks me up that you're so into the English Premier League that you use British turns of phrase such as "adrift of first place" when you talk about it.

Not only did Man U lose their SID, they fired sacked their manager today. They just lost to their bitter rivals over the weekend and are 19 points adrift of 1st place. To top things off they...oh wait, wrong Man U.

...as you were...

Fixed it.

Spot on, mate!

[voxelmhurst]

Tom, it cracks me up that you're so into the English Premier League that you use British turns of phrase such as "adrift of first place" when you talk about it.

Not only did Man U lose their SID, they fired sacked their manager today. They just lost to their bitter rivals over the weekend and are 19 points adrift of 1st place. To top things off they...oh wait, wrong Man U.

...as you were...

Fixed it.

Spot on, mate!

This has led me into an extremely unnecessary and counterproductive imagining of the CCIW men's basketball teams as English football clubs. Here is my far from perfect list:

Augustana - Manchester United (Big names, perennial contender, many league titles and national exposure)
Illinois Wesleyan - Liverpool (Big names, perennial contender, fame, many titles, lovers and haters alike obsess over team's history)
Wheaton - Arsenal (Have had great players and teams over the years. Strong contender most of the time but have not amassed the # titles as Big 2)
North Central - Chelsea (Similar to Arsenal but a little more 'posh')
North Park - Aston Villa   (Achieved the highest levels of success in 80s, but have not been able to revisit those days)
Elmhurst - Tottenham  (Occasionally strong, often overshadowed by nearest rivals, many wonder why they can't be successful more often)
Carthage - Everton (Very strong at times and always a tough game on the road no matter what kind of season they're having)
Millikin -  Newcastle United (Long tradition but been a while since they last won a title)
Carroll -  Crystal Palace  (Back in the league for foreseeable after spending time playing elsewhere)

[WUPHF]

Possibly the most necessary and productive post I have seen all season.  Bra-vo!

I might have labeled Millikin as Bournemouth or Leicester City as being the most difficult to remember how to spell (is there an E in there somewhere?), but I like yours better.

[Gregory Sager]

Interesting. Manchester United seems like a perfect choice for Augustana. Newcastle United is also a good choice for Millikin in that it echoes the geographic remoteness of the CCIW's southernmost outpost (Newcastle being the northernmost EPL club, if my memory is correct). But I don't think that IWU haters obsess over the history of the Titans at all -- or over anything else about the Titans, for that matter. They just hate 'em.  And, in terms of which school is the more "posh", it's Wheaton hands-down over North Central. And, as charmed as I am by the Brummie accent, it seems weird to associate North Park with a Birmingham-based EPL club rather than a London one, since NPU's location within the main city is one of its defining characteristics, both in terms of the school's internal identity and in terms of the CCIW at large -- and it just seems really strange to see NPU associated with an EPL club that shares its first name with that of the superstar guard of NPU's bitter rival.

Having said all that, your knowledge of the EPL is far more comprehensive than mine, so I couldn't have done this better than you did.

[Gregory Sager]

Possibly the most necessary and productive post I have seen all season.  Bra-vo!

I might have labeled Millikin as Bournemouth or Leicester City as being the most difficult to remember how to spell (is there an E in there somewhere?), but I like yours better.

No reference to Bournemouth and soccer is complete without this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTTJmJSHkk

[voxelmhurst]

Possibly the most necessary and productive post I have seen all season.  Bra-vo!

I might have labeled Millikin as Bournemouth or Leicester City as being the most difficult to remember how to spell (is there an E in there somewhere?), but I like yours better.

Thank you! I wanted to incorporate Leicester City but their recent title win that came out of nowhere threw me for a curve when it came to finding a CCIW equivalent. I do like your reasoning though!

Another club I had to leave off was Manchester City, as there really isn't any equivalent to their trajectory in the last 10+ years.

Interesting. Manchester United seems like a perfect choice for Augustana. Newcastle United is also a good choice for Millikin in that it echoes the geographic remoteness of the CCIW's southernmost outpost (Newcastle being the northernmost EPL club, if my memory is correct). But I don't think that IWU haters obsess over the history of the Titans at all -- or over anything else about the Titans, for that matter. They just hate 'em.  And, in terms of which school is the more "posh", it's Wheaton hands-down over North Central. And, as charmed as I am by the Brummie accent, it seems weird to associate North Park with a Birmingham-based EPL club rather than a London one, since NPU's location within the main city is one of its defining characteristics, both in terms of the school's internal identity and in terms of the CCIW at large -- and it just seems really strange to see NPU associated with an EPL club that shares its first name with that of the superstar guard of NPU's bitter rival.

Having said all that, your knowledge of the EPL is far more comprehensive than mine, so I couldn't have done this better than you did.

Fair points. I chose Chelsea/Arsenal for North Central/Wheaton based off their performance and also based off the cities/area they play in. Chelsea are in West London and thus seen as posh and trendy whereas Arsenal are in North London, which one may argue is seen more as tempered and intellectual. Given the scenario, Naperville's seemingly endless development of high-end stores/restaurants seemed like the best fit versus the more salt-of-the-earth Wheaton. Aston Villa won both the English and European championship in the 80s so I felt they were the best pick for NPU, given their CCIW and National titles. Tottenham was also considered for NPU as they have a great rivalry with Arsenal, but then I didn't know what to do with Elmhurst. All part of the fun...

[Gregory Sager]

I think that the suburb of Wheaton's a little too upscale to be dubbed "salt of the earth", but that's a good point about the trendiness and the we're-not-just-a-suburb-anymore aspirations of Naperville, as opposed to the sleepy gentility of Wheaton. But I was thinking more in terms of the schools themselves than of their suburbs in which they're based with regard to the "posh" comment. Then again, I made comments about North Park and Millikin based upon location, so it's not as though I'm being a model of consistency here.

[pgkevin]

Possibly the most necessary and productive post I have seen all season.  Bra-vo!

I might have labeled Millikin as Bournemouth or Leicester City as being the most difficult to remember how to spell (is there an E in there somewhere?), but I like yours better.

No reference to Bournemouth and soccer is complete without this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejTTJmJSHkk

And none of these references are complete without this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KeG_i8CWE8

[AndOne]

As a resident of the Glen Ellyn (past resident), Wheaton (past resident), and Naperville (current resident) area for 50+ years, I can offer a little perspective about the Wheaton-Naperville asymmetry, both town and respective college wise.

Both town and, I think, school wise, the best way to differentiate between the two is to think of Wheaton as "old money," and Naperville as "new money." The mansions in Wheaton are generally older structures. Naperville has some of those in the Historic District around NCC, but most of those in Naperville have been built only since the mid 1980s. Wheaton has long been a dominant national bastion of far right wing conservatism, and had long been both the social and political center of DuPage County when Naperville was just starting to feel it's oats. In the 60s-80s developing Naperville pretty much walked in step with it's northern neighbor. By then Wheaton was largely landlocked, but Naper had miles of open space south of downtown. Naper's growth began bringing more liberal viewpoints with it in the 90s. Until the late 70s-early 80s Wheaton was about 80-85% conservative leaning with Naper pretty close to the same. Now, I'd say Wheaton is around 65-70% conservative vs. 35-30% liberal while Naper, based on the recent mid term election, is around 53-55% liberal vs 47-45% conservative.
Wealthy Wheatonites display their wealth. Wealthy Napervillians flaunt theirs.

School wise, many of Wheaton's fine structures are, yes, posh. Wheaton's version of old main is a beautiful picture of traditional wealth and power, the embodiment of class and "poshness" for lack of a better term. It's Billy Graham Center is both physically imposing and beautiful to the smallest detail. I doubt there are many more impressive buildings on just about any college campus, large or small, across the country. Overall, the NCC campus might be described as a little more modern. Somewhat flashy in a classy manner as opposed to traditionally classic or "posh" if you will. However, NCC's Old Main, especially since the renovation a few years ago, is no slouch on the posh scale. The major difference between the campuses is NCC's group of new/modern buildings including the Res/Rec Center, Wentz Fine Arts Center, New Hall dorm, and the brand new Science Center, all of which might best be termed contemporary classical as opposed to traditionally posh. 

And now, back to basketball. 

[newCCIWfan]

The conversation on here has made my day!!!

[WUPHF]

And now, back to basketball.

Waiting...

The CCIW thread is unusually quiet this season.

[Gregory Sager]

Wheaton has an endowment four times the size of North Central's, and I'm willing to bet that the demographics of the two student bodies skew pretty heavily in Wheaton's favor with regard to family income.

[WUPHF]

I am not sure if Wheaton has a big enough endowment for that to be an indicator.

Wheaton does have the higher average cost of attendance and the lower average debt after graduation, though that is far from conclusive.  They do have a higher graduation rate by a margin.  At least according to the data they gave the government.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am not sure if Wheaton has a big enough endowment for that to be an indicator.

Wheaton does have the higher average cost of attendance and the lower average debt after graduation, though that is far from conclusive.  They do have a higher graduation rate by a margin.  At least according to the data they gave the government.

By WashU standards, they don't have much of an endowment.  By overall D3, I suspect they are in the top 5% (certainly the top 10%).  (Thinking in terms of endowment when used to WashU is like UMU fans thinking about football success! )