MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[BobbyO]

One at a time for Augie. The two teams left that could stop them are Wheaton and North Central.  The Drive For Five should happen! Undefeated in CCIW is possible but history would say no.  Augie's best record is 29-2.  1973 and 2016.  To match that they will have to win National if they lose in the CCIW.  Undefeated in CCIW means they must make it to the Elite Eight to tie and Semi's for new record.  I still think the 1973 team was better, but time will tell.

[thunder38]

If there's such a thing as a "quiet" 49 points, that was Aston's night tonight. I heard several people ask after the game if Francis was able to make it to 30 points for his final total only to be blown away by the actual number. He forced things early on but settled into a nice rhythm and obviously was impressive in the second half with 32 of his 49.

Spencer Peterson had a nice game tonight and stepped up big for Wheaton when the Vikings jumped out to an eight-point lead in the first half.

[Gregory Sager]

Aston Francis shot the ball 33 times tonight.  Nolan Ebel shot it 10 times.  It is an apples and oranges comparison.

Did Nolan Ebel pull down eleven rebounds? Did he score twelve straight unanswered points in crunch time to pull his team to victory in a game that his team could not afford to lose?

You talk about leadership and "making huge plays time after time," but you seem to apply those characteristics very selectively.

It can't be "apples and oranges" if you have to choose one over the other for MOP. You either have to decide on an apple or an orange. I -- and it looks like most everybody else -- think it's pretty clearly the orange that is the CCIW's top fruit.

I am a Nolan Ebel guy more than Aston Francis.  Doesn't mean I am right in terms of picking an M.O.P., but I do know the game pretty well.  My personal opinion is that Nolan Ebel does more to help his team win big games.

That's the point I was making, Bob -- every game in this league is a big game when you're near the top of the standings. Wheaton could not afford to lose tonight's game. The game was in jeopardy of being lost ... and Francis pulled them through to victory in the last four minutes, close to single-handedly.

But if it takes something that happens on the floor of Shirk to sell you, then how about this?

https://d3hoops.com/notables/2018/12/wrapup-1205

I see you post stuff like "Nolan Ebel does more to help his team win big games," and I just shake my head in wonder.

[Gregory Sager]

If there's such a thing as a "quiet" 49 points, that was Aston's night tonight.

There was nothing at all quiet about the last twelve of them.

[augiefan]

Tonight's win was a good one, but there will be a loss or two in conference play. Augie has had lots of teams make it to the NCAA tourney only to come up short. This year's team has a great starting five, but I do not think their bench is particularly good. A long way to go, when one loss in the tourney means you are out.

As for tonight's final score, it must be one of IWU's worst losses ever at the Shirk. I am sure Titan Q knows if tonight's home defeat is among the bad ones.

I just hope Augie wins it all this year, as the team will sorely miss this year's 3 stellar senior staters next season.

[augiefan]

I imagine Nolan Ebel would agree Francis should be MOP, as do I. I think Ebel is focused on getting his team to the National final rather than personal accolades. I do agree with a Titan that in the games where a Augie has been in danger of losing in crunch time, Ebel is their go to guy and usually saves the day.

[Titan Q]

Did Nolan Ebel pull down eleven rebounds? Did he score twelve straight unanswered points in crunch time to pull his team to victory in a game that his team could not afford to lose?

But, like, Ebel doesn't need to because he has guys around him who grab tons of rebounds and score points, etc. 

Which is why I continue to say it is an apples and oranges comparison.  What Ebel does on the floor is totally different than Francis (completely different roles)...but that does not make it any less outstanding.

[duckfan41]

I imagine Nolan Ebel would agree Francis should be MOP, as do I. I think Ebel is focused on getting his team to the National final rather than personal accolades. I do agree with a Titan that in the games where a Augie has been in danger of losing in crunch time, Ebel is their go to guy and usually saves the day.

I would also argue that Aston is much more interested in the team winning than any personal accolade he may or may not receive. Aston carries this Wheaton team most nights much like Steve D. did when he was leading Carthage.

[WUPHF]

As for tonight's final score, it must be one of IWU's worst losses ever at the Shirk.

There is a tie for the two worst and one happened last season and the other happened in the Kent Raymond era.

[WUPHF]

I would also argue that Aston is much more interested in the team winning than any personal accolade he may or may not receive.

This is basically every player in Division III.

At this level, the glory comes in winning games, conference tournaments (or tournament bids) and tournament games.

[WUPHF]

Did Nolan Ebel pull down eleven rebounds? Did he score twelve straight unanswered points in crunch time to pull his team to victory in a game that his team could not afford to lose?

Did Nolan even need to?

Unfortunately, we cannot run the counterfactual that is Ebel on Wheaton and Francis on Augustana.

[AndOne]

If there's such a thing as a "quiet" 49 points, that was Aston's night tonight.

There was nothing at all quiet about the last twelve of them.

Oh boy, this great!
I just love a good argument.

There was nothing at all quiet about the last twelve of them. But....................I think the first twelve he made counted for just as many points. So maybe those twelve truly made just as much noise?  🤷‍♂️

Nolan Ebel and Aston Francis are both incredibly talented players.
One big difference is Ebel has a lot more help. Francis is basically out there on an island. There is usually a deep chasm between Francis and whoever is Wheaton's #2 on any particular night.
The question then becomes——> Is the MOP the guy that does more with little help, or the guy who shines brightest amidst the many other jewels in the display case?

[iwumichigander]

I imagine Nolan Ebel would agree Francis should be MOP, as do I. I think Ebel is focused on getting his team to the National final rather than personal accolades. I do agree with a Titan that in the games where a Augie has been in danger of losing in crunch time, Ebel is their go to guy and usually saves the day.

I would also argue that Aston is much more interested in the team winning than any personal accolade he may or may not receive. Aston carries this Wheaton team most nights much like Steve D. did when he was leading Carthage.

True but ... Like Steve D ... Aston is not going to a final four and Ebel will likely make it again

[augiefan]

Just to put things in perspective tonight's win was only the 2nd by Augie at the Shirk in the last ten years. They lost to the Titans by 19 last year and by 30 the year before. This is just a down year by IWU's high standards.

[Gregory Sager]

Did Nolan Ebel pull down eleven rebounds? Did he score twelve straight unanswered points in crunch time to pull his team to victory in a game that his team could not afford to lose?

But, like, Ebel doesn't need to because he has guys around him who grab tons of rebounds and score points, etc. 

Which is why I continue to say it is an apples and oranges comparison.  What Ebel does on the floor is totally different than Francis (completely different roles)...but that does not make it any less outstanding.

Well, we will simply have to disagree about that, which is certainly not the first time that that's happened on CCIW Chat over the course of the last twenty years. But the reason why I'm pushing you so vehemently on this is that when we disagree about something I usually understand where you're coming from. This time? I don't get it at all. You've just lost me completely.

I would also argue that Aston is much more interested in the team winning than any personal accolade he may or may not receive.

This is basically every player in Division III.

True. But I think that duckfan rightly needed to say that at this point, truism though it may be, because this conversation is veering dangerously towards going in a "Francis is a stats guy, while Ebel only cares about winning" sort of direction, whether anyone really intended it that way or not. And that may be partly my fault, because I stressed Francis's statistical dominance so much when I first responded to Bob. Everything that I saw tonight, for example, showed me just how much Francis cares about winning. He shouldn't be dinged for the fact that Wheaton's best chance to win a tight ballgame in crunch time is to let him shoot the basketball.

Nothing I've seen in Francis's play indicates to me that he's selfish at all. IIRC, I was the one who was pushing Francis's assists totals not too long ago in a riposte aimed at AndOne.

I imagine Nolan Ebel would agree Francis should be MOP, as do I. I think Ebel is focused on getting his team to the National final rather than personal accolades. I do agree with a Titan that in the games where a Augie has been in danger of losing in crunch time, Ebel is their go to guy and usually saves the day.

I would also argue that Aston is much more interested in the team winning than any personal accolade he may or may not receive. Aston carries this Wheaton team most nights much like Steve D. did when he was leading Carthage.

True but ... Like Steve D ... Aston is not going to a final four and Ebel will likely make it again

I'm not sure how that's germane to a discussion about winning versus personal accolades.