MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[GoPerry]

Looks like a very favorable draw for Wheaton given where they could have ended up. This is a Wheaton team that provides a ton of issues for teams in a one-off format like the NCAA Tournament. It's impossible to prep for a player like Aston Francis unless you've played him before. Elmhurst rolled the dice with the quarky 1-3 box-and-one because they had nothing to lose. Is a team really going to put its season on the line by trying something it's never done before and get away from what likely got them there in the first place?

Also exciting for Luke Peters to get to play in his backyard once again.

Can't say enough about this senior class sticking together and bringing Wheaton back to the tournament after going 5-20 as freshmen. This group deserves the opportunity to play on the big stage and hopefully they can make some noise.

Great point 38!  Wooster only 25 miles from Medina.  And totally agree about the journey guys like Peters and Eichelberger have traveled since freshman year.

38,

I think "group" is a key word. Wheaton gets a break for exactly what you said about the difficulty in preparing for Francis if you're not familiar with him. However, he is one guy, and as hard as it is to believe, there is only so much he can do. On the selection show they said "as goes Francis, so goes Wheaton." This is exactly what the GROUP must avoid. The Thunder needs a strong game from whoever emerges as their #2 scorer in a particular game. If Aston scores 49 like when he obliterated NCC, then the supporting cast just needs to do enough to avoid losing the game. But if he hits for his average of 32 or so, WC needs someone to get 20, and probably someone else to get 10. I think a strong candidate for that #2 scorer might be Luke Anthony. He has really provided an important addition. Peterson (with his improved shooting from three) and Spencer need to hit some shots as well. GROUP will be a strong determinant of Wheaton's fortunes. No real surprise as this, of course, applies to many if not most teams. It just seems like this might be more of a challenge for a team like Wheaton where one guy so often dominates the action.

First, I'm really glad to see NCC getting to host this weekend as I've thought all along that their record really did reflect their quality, despite the weaker SOS.  That's a nice reward for this past weekend's work.  I hope they make it to Ft Wayne . . . since they're in the other bracket.

What you say about Wheaton is of course true, more so than most teams and any hoops-astute Thunder fan understands this.  It's not an exaggeration that some of us get just as if not more excited when others produce some good scoring.  It's never as jaw dropping but equally important to the game result.  I actually thought Francis got pretty good offensive support in Friday's game.  The Luke's(Peters, Anthony) as well as the Spencers( Anajuwon and Peterson) all had decent scoring #s.  What Wheaton did not have an answer for was all three of Raridon, Meredith, and especially Cappalletti going off the way they did.  And WC losing a little composure in the last 2 mins.

If Wheaton gets similar offensive production and better defensive results – well then who knows?  I know nothing about Hanover, Baruch or Wooster but I'm sure I will in the next 24 to 48 hrs.

[lmitzel]

North Central pod schedule is official. Albion vs Loras tips at 5:30, NCC vs Chatham to follow. The second round game on Saturday tips at 7.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't think that North Central got that great a draw, actually. Sure, Friday's game will be a walk in the park -- Chatham (19-9) was the third-place team in a weak league, and the Cougars grabbed the PAC's autobid by winning their three tourney games by a combined total of seven points. Heck, the Cougars split two close games with Waynesburg, a team that North Park beat by 13 points in spite of the fact that the Vikings couldn't hit a jumpshot to save their lives that day. The Cardinals will be able to have both Aiden Chang and Jack Bronec stand motionless on the court for a curtain call in the last few minutes without it having much of an impact upon the final margin.

But look at who will be waiting for NCC on Saturday night: Loras, the only team that can claim to have beaten both Nebraska Wesleyan and Augustana this season. The only other host that can say it got stuck with a potential second-round opponent that tough this year is St. John's (UW-Oshkosh), although Nebraska Wesleyan (St. Thomas), Swarthmore (MIT), and Guilford (Wittenberg or Emory -- take your pick) aren't exactly facing the prospect of a Saturday-evening picnic on their home floors, either.

[GoPerry]

I don't think that North Central got that great a draw, actually. Sure, Friday's game will be a walk in the park -- Chatham (19-9) was the third-place team in a weak league, and the Cougars grabbed the PAC's autobid by winning their three tourney games by a combined total of seven points. Heck, the Cougars split two close games with Waynesburg, a team that North Park beat by 13 points in spite of the fact that the Vikings couldn't hit a jumpshot to save their lives that day. The Cardinals will be able to have both Aiden Chang and Jack Bronec stand motionless on the court for a curtain call in the last few minutes without it having much of an impact upon the final margin.

But look at who will be waiting for NCC on Saturday night: Loras, the only team that can claim to have beaten both Nebraska Wesleyan and Augustana this season. The only other host that can say it got stuck with a potential second-round opponent that tough this year is St. John's (UW-Oshkosh), although Nebraska Wesleyan (St. Thomas), Swarthmore (MIT), and Guilford (Wittenberg or Emory -- take your pick) aren't exactly facing the prospect of a Saturday-evening picnic on their home floors, either.

NCC jumped all the way up to #2 in the region over Oshkosh who gets a potential 2nd rounder with St John's - no picnic.

Cardinals went 2-1 vs Augustana this year but the 2 bad losses kept them #2 I guess.

[Titan Q]

But look at who will be waiting for NCC on Saturday night: Loras, the only team that can claim to have beaten both Nebraska Wesleyan and Augustana this season. The only other host that can say it got stuck with a potential second-round opponent that tough this year is St. John's (UW-Oshkosh), although Nebraska Wesleyan (St. Thomas), Swarthmore (MIT), and Guilford (Wittenberg or Emory -- take your pick) aren't exactly facing the prospect of a Saturday-evening picnic on their home floors, either.

I have been the biggest supporter or Loras all season on Hoopsville, and in Top 25 voting.  I think they are a great team.

But the game is in Naperville...and to me, any home game in the NCAA tournament is a great draw.

[Gregory Sager]

There are 16 pod hosts this weekend. NCC has, arguably, the 15th-best situation among those 16 hosts.

Doesn't qualify as "great" in my book.

[Titan Q]

There are 16 pod hosts this weekend. NCC has, arguably, the 15th-best situation among those 16 hosts.

Doesn't qualify as "great" in my book.

Yesterday I had North Central as overall seed #15...so NCC having the 15th best situation sounds right to me.

In thinking about national seeding and potential hosts, I've tried to seed the top 16...actually top 18 since UW-Oshkosh and Amherst women will almost certainly be hosting.

1. (W) Whitman: .963, 26-1/.563/5-1
2. (MA) Christopher Newport: .893, 25-3/.549/7-3
3. (W) Nebraska Wesleyan: .963, 26-1/.575/2-1
4. (NE) Amherst: .852, 23-4/.568/8-3  *can't host/women

5. (C) Augustana: .889, 24-3/.547/8-3
6. (S) Randolph-Macon: .926, 25-2/.535/6-2
7. (MA) Swarthmore: .889, 24-3/.536/5-1
8. (NE) Hamilton: .852, 23-4/.553/4-4

9. (C) UW-Oshkosh: .885, 23-3/.542/3-3 *can't host/women
10. (W) Loras: .778, 21-6/.587/2-2
11. (MA) Rowan: .769, 20-6/.560/9-3
12. (W) St. John's: .852, 23-4/.534/4-2

13. (E) Oswego State: .815, 22-5/.532/8-4
14. (GL) Wittenberg: .815, 22-5/.545/6-3
15. (C) North Central: .815, 22-5/.543/5-3
16. (GL) Marietta: .769, 20-6/.549/6-4
--------------
17*. (NE) Nichols: .926, 25-2/.525/4-2
18*. (NE) Williams: .769, 20-6/.598/6-5

[Gregory Sager]

... which means that NCC is right on target in terms of being a host school with a tough draw.

[Titan Q]

... which means that NCC is right on target in terms of being a host school with a tough draw.

Right.

Earlier you said: "I don't think that North Central got that great a draw, actually."  Didn't they simply get the kind of draw they were supposed to get?

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, they did. And that's my point.

We're arguing semantics here. When I see the words "very good" in this context, I interpret them to mean "better than expected" or "better than deserved". NCC's draw isn't either one of those things.

[WUPHF]

Hey Greg Sager, you are my favorite read on the boards but you are in the  wrong here...

In the context of a one dimensional online forum, a poster should be able to say great draw without the qualifiers since the qualifiers are known by everyone...

[Titan Q]

Yes, they did. And that's my point.

We're arguing semantics here. When I see the words "very good" in this context, I interpret them to mean "better than expected" or "better than deserved". NCC's draw isn't either one of those things.

It's a "very good draw" in my opinion because they got to host. 

There were three teams competing for two hosts:
(W) St. John's: .852, 23-4/.534/4-2
(W) Loras: .778, 21-6/.587/2-2
(C) North Central: .815, 22-5/.543/5-3

NCC got to host.  That could have easily gone another way based on seeding or geography. 

Winning this hosting battle is huge...or at least "very good."

[Gregory Sager]

Hey Greg Sager, you are my favorite read on the boards but you are in the  wrong here...

In the context of a one dimensional online forum, a poster should be able to say great draw without the qualifiers since the qualifiers are known by everyone...

Disagree completely. And I'm not saying that just to be difficult.

Augie? Great draw, even for a #1 seed within its section. Augie's section isn't necessarily weaker overall than the other three, but it has the virtue (if you're Grey Giovanine) of not being as studded with top-notch teams as are the other three. Its strength lies in the overall average quality of all sixteen teams. In terms of Augie's task this weekend, I've seen both Capital and UWP, and Augie should be able to handle either one on Saturday.

In the sectional semis, Wooster or Wheaton -- again, I've seen Wooster, and, while the Scots are no slouches, they're not North Central, either. Augie didn't particularly have an easy time of it either time that it played Wheaton, but, again, Augie's clearly demonstrated twice now that it is better than Francis & Co.

That leaves the sectional finals. Marietta? I watched Elmhurst nip the Pioneers in Arizona, and at least that night those two teams looked very comparable in terms of personnel. It's not a team to be taken lightly, but, compared to what Whitman, Amherst, or Nebraska Wesleyan would likely be asked to face in the Elite Eight (Hamilton, Randolph-Macon, and that grab bag of nastiness on the other side of NWU's section), if I'm Grey Giovanine I'm content with Marietta. As for the other teams on the opposite side of the Augustana section, the Pioneers swept Baldwin Wallace and finished three games ahead of Bald Wally in the OAC standings. I admit that NJCU, Salisbury, Oswego State, and Arcadia are unknowns to me -- didn't get to see any of them this year -- but I can't picture any of them being better than Marietta, which does have the virtue of being battle-tested in the rigorous OAC.

The only negative that I can see in Augie's draw is the possibility that the Doggies will be shipped eastward for the sectionals due to mileage considerations.

Wheaton? Again, great draw, considering where Wheaton sits on the totem pole with regard to where it was picked in the Pool C selection process (and, presumably, thus seeded). Hanover is eminently beatable. Wooster will be a real problem, especially at Timken Gym, although not a definitively insurmountable one. And that's more than you can expect if you're one of the last few teams into the field, which Wheaton was.

North Central? I've already outlined the case as to why the Cardinals did not get a "very good" draw.

I'm not averse to being persuaded that I'm wrong. But in this case, I'm not.

Yes, they did. And that's my point.

We're arguing semantics here. When I see the words "very good" in this context, I interpret them to mean "better than expected" or "better than deserved". NCC's draw isn't either one of those things.

It's a "very good draw" in my opinion because they got to host. 

There were three teams competing for two hosts:
(W) St. John's: .852, 23-4/.534/4-2
(W) Loras: .778, 21-6/.587/2-2
(C) North Central: .815, 22-5/.543/5-3

NCC got to host.  That's huge...or at least "very good."

By your own lights, North Central should have been a host, as you had them #15 and there are 16 hosts. The Cardinals got exactly what the #15 seed should've expected, which is hosting privileges with one of the toughest second-round draws in the tourney. Loras, by comparison, got the shaft ... which, unfortunately for the Duhawks, was to be expected given the particulars of geography (e.g., you can't get Chatham to Loras under the 500-mile limit).

[AndOne]

... which means that NCC is right on target in terms of being a host school with a tough draw.

Right.

Earlier you said: "I don't think that North Central got that great a draw, actually."  Didn't they simply get the kind of draw they were supposed to get?

Yes, they did. And that's my point.

We're arguing semantics here. When I see the words "very good" in this context, I interpret them to mean "better than expected" or "better than deserved". NCC's draw isn't either one of those things.

Hey Greg Sager, you are my favorite read on the boards but you are in the  wrong here...

In the context of a one dimensional online forum, a poster should be able to say great draw without the qualifiers since the qualifiers are known by everyone...

Yes, they did. And that's my point.

We're arguing semantics here. When I see the words "very good" in this context, I interpret them to mean "better than expected" or "better than deserved". NCC's draw isn't either one of those things.

It's a "very good draw" in my opinion because they got to host. 

There were three teams competing for two hosts:
(W) St. John's: .852, 23-4/.534/4-2
(W) Loras: .778, 21-6/.587/2-2
(C) North Central: .815, 22-5/.543/5-3

NCC got to host.  That could have easily gone another way based on seeding or geography. 

Winning this hosting battle is huge...or at least "very good."

This back and forth tug of war over semantics has been very entertaining.
However, I spent the late morning/early afternoon viewing the selection show with the Cardinals, and then discussing their draw with some of them. And, truth be told, the general feeling is that they are very happy with their draw. For starters, they are elated that, rather than being forced to endure an 8 hour bus ride to someplace like the Pleasure Capital of the Plains, or the Female Barren Tundra of the Great North, they get to stay home and host. As far as the prospect of facing Loras Saturday night, the Cardinals harbor the feeling that having defeated teams with players like Nolan Ebel, Chrishawn Orange, and Micah Martin (twice), Aston Francis (twice), Jake Rhode and Jeremy Ireland (twice),  Kienan Baltimore and Sean Johnson (twice), and Brady Rose, that they are ready for anything Loras can throw at them. They understand Loras is a well balanced, deep, and talented team as evidenced by their takedowns of Augie and NWU. But they also know they ended up 2nd in the Final Regional Rankings as opposed to Loras finishing 4th in their Final Regional Rankings. They know they were picked to finish 4th in the CCIW, but ended up 2nd despite losing their starting senior PG, AND starting senior C for the year in the 9th and 11th games of the season respectively. And, as they are fresh off beating Wheaton and Augie in the Conference Tournament in Rock Island last weekend, the mojo is still fresh and hot. And yes, they had 2 bad losses but the feeling is they're no longer that team. Sure Loras is a very good team, certainly capable of beating anyone. But this is the National Tournament. You expect to face a good team every time you step on the floor. Bottom line is the Cardinals feel they got a very good draw despite what any outside "experts" might think. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

NCC is a host because of geography.  That's not the only reason; they're ranked well, but it's not about comparing numbers.  That's a good spot for taking advantage of the 500 mile rule.