MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

You were no Wayne Randazzo, but who is? 

[Gregory Sager]

North Central, same thing. The WONC students who used to call Cardinals games were frequently a pain in the ears. Fortunately, Kevin Jackman, who now does PBP for multiple NCC sports, came along and got the permanent gig, as he is really good.

I'd like to think I wasn't that bad, considering I was one of those who took it as a learning opportunity. So, retroactive apologies for any annoyances caused between 2008 and 2011.

I simply avoided listening to WONC game calls when it was still just a radio-only affair. When it became attached to the livestream, I'd give every PBP person a chance. So I probably listened to you call games with no issues.

The worst are the student broadcasters who have clearly been assigned to call sports that they don't care about. I can remember listening to an NPU @ NCC softball game online once and thinking to myself, "This is remarkably bad. In fact, this is the worst game-calling I've ever heard. It's got it all -- shouting, incoherent mumbling, inside jokes, rampant sexism, microphones being knocked over, a total lack of respect for everybody from the opposing players to the umpires to whoever's talking to them through their headsets, random knob-twiddling, complete disregard for what's happening on the field, and what sounds like the colorman snarfing down an entire box of peanut brittle in front of a live mic."

Kevin was a freshman when I was a senior though, and I thought then he had a bright future, and I'm glad he's continued to do so well with all of NCC's sports he's called.

There was discussion at some point recently about alums coming back occasionally to help out, but that was pretty much immediately nixed by station management because of the whole learning opportunity thing, because they don't want to take those away from the actual students, which I get.

I'll just have to settle for yelling in the background I guess.

You've found your niche, Lucas. Revel in it. Milk it for all it's worth.

You were no Wayne Randazzo, but who is? 

LOL!

[kiko]

I get the whole "it's a school, and having student broadcasters is a learning opportunity" mindset, but if the quality suffers as a result it tends to reflect badly upon the school. And the thing is, Wheaton has an outstanding two-man team in-house already in Rusty Lindsey and Nate Frank. But ... no complaints from me for at least as long as Abram Erickson is on the job.

100% disagree that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school.

[WUPHF]

This might be a good gift for the Wheaton College basketball fan in your life...a program from the 1956 NAIA championships.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-NAIA-COLLEGE-BASKETBALL-TOURNAMENT-PROGRAM-MCNEESE-STATE-WHEATON-KANSAS-ST/153661217354?hash=item23c6ec1a4a:g:hS4AAOSwjsldUA5j

[Gregory Sager]

I get the whole "it's a school, and having student broadcasters is a learning opportunity" mindset, but if the quality suffers as a result it tends to reflect badly upon the school. And the thing is, Wheaton has an outstanding two-man team in-house already in Rusty Lindsey and Nate Frank. But ... no complaints from me for at least as long as Abram Erickson is on the job.

100% disagree that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school.

I didn't say that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school. I said that if the quality suffers as a result of using student broadcasters it reflects badly upon the school. Big difference.

Student broadcasters aren't necessarily bad. In fact, I cited Wheaton's current guy, Abram Erickson, as being pretty good. But students, as I said, can be a mixed bag. You can get a really good one in one school year, and a really bad one the next -- or vice-versa.

[kiko]

I get the whole "it's a school, and having student broadcasters is a learning opportunity" mindset, but if the quality suffers as a result it tends to reflect badly upon the school. And the thing is, Wheaton has an outstanding two-man team in-house already in Rusty Lindsey and Nate Frank. But ... no complaints from me for at least as long as Abram Erickson is on the job.

100% disagree that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school.

I didn't say that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school. I said that if the quality suffers as a result of using student broadcasters it reflects badly upon the school. Big difference.

Student broadcasters aren't necessarily bad. In fact, I cited Wheaton's current guy, Abram Erickson, as being pretty good. But students, as I said, can be a mixed bag. You can get a really good one in one school year, and a really bad one the next -- or vice-versa.

To clarify on my end, even if the quality suffers, I don't think it reflects badly on the school.  It suggests that the school is investing in its students and helping them figure out what they are or are not good at.  IMO that's on point for what a school should be aiming to do.

[Ultimate Titan Fan]

Bob's not a broadcaster anymore, though. He lives in Texas, and apparently IWU is not willing to cover his airfare to and from Bloomington for home games. His successors, Eric Stock and Joel Swanson, are a fine two-man broadcasting team in their own right, though.

Often Eric and Joel have me on at halftime from my home in Dallas via Skype.  Last Saturday I got bumped for the new IWU President -- I thought that was kinda weak.

Ha!

I like to tune into DIII games with teams I know nothing about. You get a good sense of the varying resources (or level of commitment?) schools have for their sports teams. I'm betting a lot of colleges at all levels are facing what we're facing in Illinois (point of disclosure, I work at Illinois State Univ). The number of high school graduates is declining, so schools must: 1. become more competitive for the dwindling piece of pie., 2. turn to international recruitment (which we see at both IWU and ISU), 3. slash programs and await their eventual demise.

Anyway, to apply that to the discussion about announcers, of the many DIII games I've watched over the internet, I've seen games, with no announcers, games with no sound at all, games with student announcers, and, of course, those with pros. I agree with the sentiment that "it's about the students and a learning experience," but I do have to grit my teeth and suffer through some God-awful student commentary. I guess my point is, I really gain a better appreciation of the value of pro announcers when you see what else is out there. I watched a game with two teams in California, (no announcers) and even over my small computer screen, I could see the poor condition of the floor. The players were constantly slipping and wiping the bottom of their shoes. There was no one to wipe up sweat under the basket. There was no staff to broom the floor at half time. It makes you wonder what other challenges this particular college is facing. I see stuff like that, and I'm thankful that CCIW teams have those resources to safely host games with a high level of commitment.

Concerning the announcers at IWU, they're from a local radio station. I wonder if they broadcast for free, or even if they pay IWU for the right to broadcast?

[voxelmhurst]

I was a graduate student broadcaster for (most of) Elmhurst men's basketball games from 2005-2007, back when radio was streaming but before video. My friend and I got the 'job' because nobody else would commit to traveling to St Norbert on a Wednesday night (and driving back to Chicago in snow), or giving up their entire weekend to cover the team in Rock Island for the CCIW tournament. We also worked in the radio department as undergrads and knew how to operate everything which put us ahead of anyone else who might have wanted the job. We had a faculty sponsor help us out with logistics and production, Coach Scherer and team appreciated our efforts and for all our shortcomings as broadcasters (there were many!), we were very popular with the extended families of Elmhurst players living in Central Illinois who could not attend all the games. I agree the standards could have been raised but we had the time of our lives and enjoyed an experience that we could have only had as students at a smaller school.

I have no problem with programs who use pro broadcasters or hobbyists who've been calling the games for years/decades. I respect passion wherever it is found. I'm just saying that Elmhurst really gave me an opportunity that I wouldn't have had anywhere else, and I imagine most student broadcasters will say the same. Any student who doesn't feel this way is not a student who should be calling games.

[Titan Q]

Concerning the announcers at IWU, they're from a local radio station. I wonder if they broadcast for free, or even if they pay IWU for the right to broadcast?

Eric Stock and Joel Swanson broadcast the games for WEXG Radio, and are paid by WEXG.

IWU made the wise decision several years ago to use their broadcast (previously WJBC, now WEXG) for the video stream audio.  The alternative would be to use student broadcasters.  I say "wise decision" simply because Eric and Joel are really good...nothing against student broadcasters.

[Titan Q]

I have no problem with programs who use pro broadcasters or hobbyists who've been calling the games for years/decades. I respect passion wherever it is found. I'm just saying that Elmhurst really gave me an opportunity that I wouldn't have had anywhere else, and I imagine most student broadcasters will say the same. Any student who doesn't feel this way is not a student who should be calling games.

I did the same at IWU back in my student days -- broadcast IWU games on campus station WESN.  It was really a great experience.

There are a lot of good student broadcasters out there.  The ones who do the best job simply take it seriously -- they do their homework about both teams before the game, they get name pronunciations right before they hit the air, and they are "professional" in their broadcast.

It's really not hard to do a pretty good job.  Schools that have student broadcasters need someone that teaches the broadcasters the simple principles I mentioned above, and holds them accountable for it. 

[cardinalpride]

I know this is the b-ball board so forgive me!
Congrats to Coach Thorne and the NCC football program.
The Cardinals are proud of you today! Continue to make NCC history!

[Gregory Sager]

I get the whole "it's a school, and having student broadcasters is a learning opportunity" mindset, but if the quality suffers as a result it tends to reflect badly upon the school. And the thing is, Wheaton has an outstanding two-man team in-house already in Rusty Lindsey and Nate Frank. But ... no complaints from me for at least as long as Abram Erickson is on the job.

100% disagree that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school.

I didn't say that giving students a learning opportunity like this reflects badly upon the school. I said that if the quality suffers as a result of using student broadcasters it reflects badly upon the school. Big difference.

Student broadcasters aren't necessarily bad. In fact, I cited Wheaton's current guy, Abram Erickson, as being pretty good. But students, as I said, can be a mixed bag. You can get a really good one in one school year, and a really bad one the next -- or vice-versa.

To clarify on my end, even if the quality suffers, I don't think it reflects badly on the school.  It suggests that the school is investing in its students and helping them figure out what they are or are not good at.  IMO that's on point for what a school should be aiming to do.

I get that. But the other side of it is that this is a showcase for the school, an opportunity for it to gain exposure to people who may or may not be familiar with the institution. Putting your best foot forward by presenting as professional-looking and -sounding a production as possible is important from a public-relations point of view. An incompetent broadcaster or broadcasting team squanders that opportunity by frustrating the viewer.

My nitpicks about the Wheaton broadcaster who was obsessed with jab steps aside, the bar is really not that high for a student broadcaster to do a competent job, which at minimum means to stay out of the way of the game, identify people properly, and (especially if the livestream lacks graphics) periodically give the correct time and score. As voxelmhurst indicated, commitment and a willingness to learn both the craft and the particulars of the task are key. And I completely agree with Bob:

There are a lot of good student broadcasters out there.  The ones who do the best job simply take it seriously -- they do their homework about both teams before the game, they get name pronunciations right before they hit the air, and they are "professional" in their broadcast.

It's really not hard to do a pretty good job.  Schools that have student broadcasters need someone that teaches the broadcasters the simple principles I mentioned above, and holds them accountable for it. 

[kiko]

My nitpicks about the Wheaton broadcaster who was obsessed with jab steps aside, the bar is really not that high for a student broadcaster to do a competent job, which at minimum means to stay out of the way of the game, identify people properly, and (especially if the livestream lacks graphics) periodically give the correct time and score. As voxelmhurst indicated, commitment and a willingness to learn both the craft and the particulars of the task are key.

You've been doing this a long time, so all of that has become second nature to you.  For someone who is just starting out, that can actually be a pretty high bar.  Like many here, I did the student broadcasting gig back in the stone age.  I was fine at baseball... it's pretty slow paced rather than free-flowing.  For basketball, the first few times I did it, the game was moving too fast for me to do all of the things you mention.  Eventually, it slowed down, something clicked, and I got better at it.  But you don't always get to the point where you can easily step over that bar unless you get the opportunity to practice in real time and eventually learn from your mistakes.  That can be a very public process for a student broadcaster and is not always easy on the ears, but it's an important part of their learning curve.

I'm not questioning that the willingness to learn is important, and I 100% agree with Bob that having someone (a more seasoned student or faculty member) to teach the fundamentals, coach them up, and hold them accountable over time is important.  WONC in particular did a tremendous job of putting that sort of mentoring structure in place in all facets of the station.

Even with all of your experience, you will sometimes misidentify a player, misstate the score, or not understand a backstory on an unfamiliar opponent, etc.  I just watched a football semifinal featuring professional announcers who were wobbly with unfamiliar teams, players, and backstories.  The difference with a student broadcaster is typically in how much more frequently those sorts of unforced errors occur.

[Gregory Sager]

Final from Decatur:

Carroll 70
Millikin 63

[Gregory Sager]

Final from Elmhurst:

North Central 76
Elmhurst 74