MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[npcballboy]

Sorry. The 85 JV team could beat this years team. Better?

[Titan Q]

IWU freshman Luke Yoder is off to a nice start through 4 CCIW games. In league play, he is 9th in scoring (14.5 ppg).  Yoder leads the CCIW in 3-point % at .700 (7 of 10), and is third in FT % at .895 (17 of 19).

Yoder seems to get more comfortable each times he steps on the court.  I've been really impressed by him.

With Grant Wolfe out, Yoder is possibly IWU's most important player now.

[AndOne]

So when Wolfe comes back does Ron Rose start him and Yoder together or does Yoder, "possibly IWU's most important player now" get relegated to backup duty and become a super sub?

[AndOne]

Kienen Baltimore played nine minutes off the bench and scored two points.

He didn't start...then got kicked out of the game.

Yep. I'm listening to John Weiser's post-game report, and he said that Baltimore blatantly stepped on Jack Jelen during a dead ball and immediately got the thumb from the refs.

Don't know if he got kicked out of not, but in Carthage's last game vs. Olivet, Baltimore also received a T and played only 8 minutes. Then last night he plays 9 minutes, stomps on an opposing player, and gets kicked out of the game.

Last season, many of us including myself proclaimed Baltimore got screwed by being left off first team All-Conference as there was absolutely no doubt that his play merited inclusion with that group. However, considering his recent deportment, a question that arises is did the conference coaches pass on first team balloting for him based on things, either real or perceived, related to their view of his behavior/attitude that most of us were not privy to?

Lastly, I may be mistaken, but isn't there a CCIW rule that if you get kicked out of a conference game, you have to sit out the first half of the next game?

[Titan Q]

So when Wolfe comes back does Ron Rose start him and Yoder together or does Yoder, "possibly IWU's most important player now" get relegated to backup duty and become a super sub?

If Grant Wolfe comes back, he is the starter. 

I assume they'd go back to the way they played before the latest concussion - Wolfe starts, Yoder subs for him, and then they also play together a bunch based on matchups, game situations, etc.  Against Augie and Wash U, both were together on the floor in every big moment late.

I called Yoder "possibly IWU's most important player now" because I am not sure when, or if, Grant Wolfe will return.  I am assuming Luke Yoder is IWU's starting PG for a while now.  If I thought Wolfe would be back soon, I wouldn't say that about Yoder...because that is how I feel about Wolfe when he's in there.  When healthy, I consider Wolfe IWU's MVP.

[AndOne]

Schauer got a warning late in the first half, this one for haranguing the officials first about his team getting whistled for about half a dozen travels in the first half

Yeah, that's a big reason why I said that it was "not a tremendously artistic game" in Napervegas tonight. The Cardinals had a few traveling calls whistled against them as well, as the first half was pretty much a mess for both teams from an aesthetic point of view.

Last night Wheaton outshot North Central slightly on an overall basis, and considerably from beyond the arc. They also pounded the Cardinals on the boards, out rebounding them by 10. The Cardinals ultimately overcame these Wheaton advantages by playing better overall defense, especially down the stretch, and by taking better care of the ball to the tune of committing only 8 turnovers compared to Wheaton's 18. NCC also benefitted when Anajuwon Spencer fouled out, no longer having to suffer his three pointers or his expansive wingspan defensively. Of course the Cardinals having a player on the court for the game's entire 45 minutes that Wheaton found virtually unstoppable also had a bit to do with things.

With regard to the abundance of traveling calls—I think WC was whistled for 7 overall and NCC 3–Is this a point of emphasis for the refs this year? If not, perhaps the officials assigned to last night's game just have a particular fondness for calling this violation. In one sequence, Wheaton was called for traveling, and NCC was hit with the same violation only about 15 seconds later. WC Coach Schauer, clearly frustrated by the proceedings, bellowed at the ref "Don't call either one of them." At any rate, it definitely played a role in the game, depriving Wheaton of several possessions which may have proven the difference in a 3 point game.

Lastly, as far as it not being an "artistic" game, it seems like it was a fairly typical physical tussle in the frequently rough and tumble CCIW.

[sac]

I had a conversation with someone in October that traveling on the perimeter was supposed to be a point of emphasis this year.  In particular moving before establishing a dribble.  But I cannot find it written anywhere. 


Was anyone else a little perplexed the referees made Wheaton go the length of the court in overtime after the NCC long in-bounds pass went over the opposite end-line.  It looked odd to me, because I thought the NCC player had already stepped out of bounds before contacting the ball, thus the ball should have gone back to the other end of the court.  I'm not clear on the rule though, if that isn't a thing and the ball has to contact the floor out of bounds that was a heck of a hustle play the Cardinal player. 

[AndOne]

So when Wolfe comes back does Ron Rose start him and Yoder together or does Yoder, "possibly IWU's most important player now" get relegated to backup duty and become a super sub?

If Grant Wolfe comes back, he is the starter. 

When healthy, I consider Wolfe IWU's MVP.

Key word here is IF.
All concussions have the potential to be long term and serious, and caution must be exercised. But I wasn't aware that Wolfe's injury was expected to be of the longer term variety.
Relying on a freshman PG, no matter how good, down the stretch in a tightly contested conference race to secure enough victories to possibly qualify for the national tournament can be fraught with potential problems.

[Gregory Sager]

Kienen Baltimore played nine minutes off the bench and scored two points.

He didn't start...then got kicked out of the game.

Yep. I'm listening to John Weiser's post-game report, and he said that Baltimore blatantly stepped on Jack Jelen during a dead ball and immediately got the thumb from the refs.

Don't know if he got kicked out of not, but in Carthage's last game vs. Olivet, Baltimore also received a T and played only 8 minutes.

He didn't get kicked out of the Olivet game. I explained here back on Thursday what happened:

Baltimore got T'ed up, Bosko sent him to the bench eight seconds later, and on the next trip down the floor Baltimore started jawing at one of the refs from his seat on the bench. The ref told Baltimore that if he said another word he'd get tossed. Bosko heard it, and never put Baltimore back in, presumably for disciplinary reasons.

Then last night he plays 9 minutes, stomps on an opposing player, and gets kicked out of the game.

"Stomps"? Nobody said "stomps". I didn't see the incident, because I was watching the WC @ NCC game, but in his postgame report John Weiser said that Baltimore stepped on Jelen. There's a world of difference between stepping on someone and stomping on someone.

Last season, many of us including myself proclaimed Baltimore got screwed by being left off first team All-Conference as there was absolutely no doubt that his play merited inclusion with that group. However, considering his recent deportment, a question that arises is did the conference coaches pass on first team balloting for him based on things, either real or perceived, related to their view of his behavior/attitude that most of us were not privy to?

I highly doubt it. I don't remember anybody around this league who said last year that Baltimore was a problem child for Bosko.

Lastly, I may be mistaken, but isn't there a CCIW rule that if you get kicked out of a conference game, you have to sit out the first half of the next game?

I'm not aware of that rule, but it may very well exist. They have red cards in soccer and volleyball (both men's and women's) that are tantamount to the same thing, so it wouldn't surprise me.

With regard to the abundance of traveling calls—I think WC was whistled for 7 overall and NCC 3–Is this a point of emphasis for the refs this year? If not, perhaps the officials assigned to last night's game just have a particular fondness for calling this violation.

It's not just the crew that worked the airplane hangar last night. I've definitely seen more traveling calls made this season on the perimeter. Funny thing is, there's more traveling going on inside now on drives to the basket -- everybody and his brother thinks that he can just get away with it and call it a "Euro step" -- that doesn't get called.

In one sequence, Wheaton was called for traveling, and NCC was hit with the same violation only about 15 seconds later. WC Coach Schauer, clearly frustrated by the proceedings, bellowed at the ref "Don't call either one of them." At any rate, it definitely played a role in the game, depriving Wheaton of several possessions which may have proven the difference in a 3 point game.

Lastly, as far as it not being an "artistic" game, it seems like it was a fairly typical physical tussle in the frequently rough and tumble CCIW.

My comment was directed at the multiplicity of traveling calls.

Was anyone else a little perplexed the referees made Wheaton go the length of the court in overtime after the NCC long in-bounds pass went over the opposite end-line.  It looked odd to me, because I thought the NCC player had already stepped out of bounds before contacting the ball, thus the ball should have gone back to the other end of the court.  I'm not clear on the rule though, if that isn't a thing and the ball has to contact the floor out of bounds that was a heck of a hustle play the Cardinal player. 

No, NCC's Will Clausel had started his leap while still in bounds. He was therefore in bounds when he touched it, even though he was airborne above the endline. According to rule 7.2.1, that made Clausel, and not the in-bounder at the other end of the floor (Connor Raridon), the last player to legally touch the ball. And that in turn made the placement of Wheaton's ensuing inbound pass contingent upon Clausel's location on the floor, not Raridon's.

[Mr. Ypsi]

So when Wolfe comes back does Ron Rose start him and Yoder together or does Yoder, "possibly IWU's most important player now" get relegated to backup duty and become a super sub?

If Grant Wolfe comes back, he is the starter. 

When healthy, I consider Wolfe IWU's MVP.

Key word here is IF.
All concussions have the potential to be long term and serious, and caution must be exercised. But I wasn't aware that Wolfe's injury was expected to be of the longer term variety.
Relying on a freshman PG, no matter how good, down the stretch in a tightly contested conference race to secure enough victories to possibly qualify for the national tournament can be fraught with potential problems.

Generally very true, but IWU's only national title came with freshman PG Korey Coon, so there are exceptions.

And no, much as I like Luke Yoder, I don't think he is the second coming of Korey Coon.

[iwu70]

Ypsi, Yoder has the potential.  A bit different style than Coon, but an awfully good, solid player . . . making his mark pretty well so far as a freshman, as Wolfe's replacement.  I do hope Grant can get back soon . . .

'70

[GoPerry]

Was anyone else a little perplexed the referees made Wheaton go the length of the court in overtime after the NCC long in-bounds pass went over the opposite end-line.  It looked odd to me, because I thought the NCC player had already stepped out of bounds before contacting the ball, thus the ball should have gone back to the other end of the court.  I'm not clear on the rule though, if that isn't a thing and the ball has to contact the floor out of bounds that was a heck of a hustle play the Cardinal player. 

No, NCC's Will Clausel had started his leap while still in bounds. He was therefore in bounds when he touched it, even though he was airborne above the endline. According to rule 7.2.1, that made Clausel, and not the in-bounder at the other end of the floor (Connor Raridon), the last player to legally touch the ball. And that in turn made the placement of Wheaton's ensuing inbound pass contingent upon Clausel's location on the floor, not Raridon's.

It was the right call.  From my vantage I simply thought that he started his leap while in bounds.  But when he threw the ball back it hit beyond the end line out of bounds.  There were 20 secs left so having to go the length of the court was not a significant factor.  Not having any timeouts left to draw up something certainly was.

With regard to the abundance of traveling calls—I think WC was whistled for 7 overall and NCC 3–Is this a point of emphasis for the refs this year? If not, perhaps the officials assigned to last night's game just have a particular fondness for calling this violation. In one sequence, Wheaton was called for traveling, and NCC was hit with the same violation only about 15 seconds later. WC Coach Schauer, clearly frustrated by the proceedings, bellowed at the ref "Don't call either one of them." At any rate, it definitely played a role in the game, depriving Wheaton of several possessions which may have proven the difference in a 3 point game.

Lastly, as far as it not being an "artistic" game, it seems like it was a fairly typical physical tussle in the frequently rough and tumble CCIW.

Yes - just way too many traveling calls that weren't. 

This crew had several inexplicable moments.  Of course the ones that stick out to me were the ones against the visiting team.   9 first half Wheaton fouls vs only 3 for NCC was tough to understand.  The second half started out 4 on WC and 1 on NC when the refs seem to have an "Uh oh" moment and started evening things out the rest of the way. 

Maybe the best example of the refereeing mindset where they were actively looking for stuff to whistle was the 2nd H play where Chang stepped out of bounds driving baseline but the outside ref, having no vantage point to view the play, over ruled the baseline official and called a foul on Cruickshank for pushing when Chang showed no evidence of being pushed at all. 

Then there was the Anthony made trey and the simultaneous foul against Raridon shoving Cruickshank.  After a lengthy conference they counted the basket and gave Wheaton the ball out of bounds.  I'm not sure what rule even allows that.  The basket probably should not have counted.  In fact, I think it might've been the same ref who called that one too along with most of the traveling calls.

[Gregory Sager]

This crew had several inexplicable moments.  Of course the ones that stick out to me were the ones against the visiting team.   9 first half Wheaton fouls vs only 3 for NCC was tough to understand.  The second half started out 4 on WC and 1 on NC when the refs seem to have an "Uh oh" moment and started evening things out the rest of the way. 

As a neutral observer I didn't have a problem with the foul disparity; I was giving the furrowed brow more to what they were calling than to who they were calling them against. But I agree with you that there were some make-up calls against the Cardinals in the second half. I hate make-up calls, even when they work in NPU's favor. There's two reasons why: 1) they're an admission of incompetence on the part of the officiating crew; a referee or umpire in any sport should take from Martin Luther the motto, "Sin boldly", by asserting that every call they make is the right one, unless they're challenged by their officiating colleague; and 2) by definition, make-up calls lead an official astray from his or her true task, which is to call the game as objectively and as honestly as possible. If one team fouls more than the other -- even a lot more than the other -- then so be it. It happens all the time.

Maybe the best example of the refereeing mindset where they were actively looking for stuff to whistle was the 2nd H play where Chang stepped out of bounds driving baseline but the outside ref, having no vantage point to view the play, over ruled the baseline official and called a foul on Cruickshank for pushing when Chang showed no evidence of being pushed at all.

Yeah, that was definitely a bad one. I think that the problem that Mike Schauer was having was that he had wasted his ammo on mildly questionable calls (such as some of the travels) earlier in the game, which meant that he was annoying the officials into giving his complaints less credence when he had a more legit beef, such as with this foul on Cruickshank.

I've talked with CCIW refs in casual situations (you'd be surprised by how many of them eat a post-game meal at Charcoal Delights ), and I know that there's definitely a head coach or three in this league that irritate officials with their non-stop whining. Mike Schauer isn't one of them. But in this case he may have gotten a dose of what I suspect is a general attitude among refs, which is, "The more you whine, the more I'm going to tune you out." And that may work against a coach when he does eventually have a legitimate complaint.

Then there was the Anthony made trey and the simultaneous foul against Raridon shoving Cruickshank.  After a lengthy conference they counted the basket and gave Wheaton the ball out of bounds.  I'm not sure what rule even allows that.  The basket probably should not have counted.  In fact, I think it might've been the same ref who called that one too along with most of the traveling calls.

That bad call really stuck out, because it turned out to be a five-point play in what had been a one-point game when the whistle blew.

[BobbyO]

Big games this week in the CCIW.  If you live in DuPage County 5 of them.  Wish they could stagger the start time, what a week that would be.  NC two home games IWU and Carroll  Carthage will find out if they are the real thing with Carroll in Waukesha and Wheaton in DuPage County.  Elmhurst at home with both Viking teams.  Millikin at NPU and then Augie visits them in Decatur.  Bye on Wednesday Wheaton and IWU on Saturday.

What is Bosko going to do with Baltimore?

Has Augie grown up or is Carthage Overrated?

Can Wheaton put the NC Game behind them?

Who is the top team in the League, IWU, Wheaton, NC or Elmhurst?

Will Carroll find out how to win the close ones?

Can NPU and Millikin get a win in the conference?

Much will be learned this week!

[Titan Q]

Who is the top team in the League, IWU, Wheaton, NC or Elmhurst?

I don't think Augustana should be excluded from this list. 

Seems like the 5 current 1-loss teams are all extremely even. 

I think the CCIW champ will go 3-1 vs Carthage and Carroll and 4-0 vs North Park and Millikin.