MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Nope, don't see it, Bob. Tyson Cruickshank looks like a first-team shoo-in; he's eighth in the league in scoring, fifth in rebounding (and is the league's best rebounding guard by a considerable distance), and he's one of the better shooters among the league's guards. Lavon Thomas is leading the league in rebounding by almost a full rebound per game, and he scores more than Yoder, too. Plus, there's always the chance that the coaches are going to insist upon putting another Cardinal besides Raridon on first team, especially if NCC holds serve and wins the league, and that means that Cappelletti gets on.

I don't think you'd see two Wheaton players on an 8-person team based on other close options and where Wheaton is going to finish (not in the top 2).  Certainly not two Wheaton players and zero IWU players when they are going to finish about tied in the standings.

I don't think you'd see three Elmhurst players...unless Elmhurst finished solo first (which they won't).

I do think there will be two NCC players if NCC finishes in the top two (which they should).

I don't think the coaches are going to vote for Kienan Baltimore on the 1st team.  And I think Calvin Fisher has missed too many games to make it.

I think IWU's Luke Yoder had a good chance to make that team.

[Gregory Sager]

You're as well aware as I am that apportionment of All-CCIW awards isn't that slavishly tied to the standings, Bob. While it would be conspicuous for the champion to only get one player on first team while multiple runners-up got two -- which is why I think that, if NCC wins the title, Cappelletti has a shot at first team, even though he hasn't really had a first-team-type season to date -- the coaches don't hew religiously to the principle of "standings determine awards" up and down the line. Heck, they might not even consider it reason enough to put Cappelletti on first team this season rather than second team. It's just not that hard and fast a rule.

Let's just take the last two seasons as examples. Last season Wheaton finished third at 11-5 and Illinois Wesleyan finished fourth at 10-6. Waaaay behind those two teams came Elmhurst, which tied with Carroll for fifth at 7-9. Yet the Bluejays had the exact same apportionment -- one player on first team, one player on second team -- as did WC and IWU. Two years ago North Central finished third at 12-4, a game behind co-champions Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan. Yet NCC had as many players named to the first team (two) as did Augie, and it had one more than did IWU, which only placed Brady Rose on first team. Furthermore, co-champion IWU had the exact same apportionment -- one on first team, one on second team -- as did the two Wisconsin teams, which tied for fifth at 8-8, five full games behind the Titans. You'd never know by looking at the All-CCIW team that Carroll and Carthage, which like IWU each had one player make first team and one player make second team, finished five games in back of the Titans.

Illinois Wesleyan has a couple of players this season who make good second-team candidates -- Yoder and Doug Wallen -- and it would make sense for both of them to make second team. But Yoder really isn't first-team material. He's only prominent in two statistical categories this season, as he's second in the CCIW in both FT percentage and steals, and neither of those categories is typically a ballot-influencing kind of category. What are ballot-influencing categories for a point guard, aside from scoring (where Yoder ranks a relatively modest 14th with 13.3 ppg), are assists and a:to ... and Yoder trails several other CCIW PGs (Rhode, who is the best CCIW PG by a country mile, Crishawn Cook, and Ryan Clarey) and is roughly equal with another (Jack Jelen) in those categories.

He's just not a first-teamer, Bob.

[Gregory Sager]

Massey sez:

@ Augustana 67, North Central 63 (AC 62%, NCC 38%)
Wheaton 66, @ Carroll 62 (WC 63%, CU 37%)
@ Carthage 82, North Park 64 (CC 94%, NPU 6%)
Elmhurst 86, @ Illinois Wesleyan 80 (EC 71%, IWU 29%)

[Skinny Lance]

You're as well aware as I am that apportionment of All-CCIW awards isn't that slavishly tied to the standings, Bob. While it would be conspicuous for the champion to only get one player on first team while multiple runners-up got two -- which is why I think that, if NCC wins the title, Cappelletti has a shot at first team, even though he hasn't really had a first-team-type season to date -- the coaches don't hew religiously to the principle of "standings determine awards" up and down the line. Heck, they might not even consider it reason enough to put Cappelletti on first team this season rather than second team. It's just not that hard and fast a rule.

Let's just take the last two seasons as examples. Last season Wheaton finished third at 11-5 and Illinois Wesleyan finished fourth at 10-6. Waaaay behind those two teams came Elmhurst, which tied with Carroll for fifth at 7-9. Yet the Bluejays had the exact same apportionment -- one player on first team, one player on second team -- as did WC and IWU. Two years ago North Central finished third at 12-4, a game behind co-champions Augustana and Illinois Wesleyan. Yet NCC had as many players named to the first team (two) as did Augie, and it had one more than did IWU, which only placed Brady Rose on first team. Furthermore, co-champion IWU had the exact same apportionment -- one on first team, one on second team -- as did the two Wisconsin teams, which tied for fifth at 8-8, five full games behind the Titans. You'd never know by looking at the All-CCIW team that Carroll and Carthage, which like IWU each had one player make first team and one player make second team, finished five games in back of the Titans.

Illinois Wesleyan has a couple of players this season who make good second-team candidates -- Yoder and Doug Wallen -- and it would make sense for both of them to make second team. But Yoder really isn't first-team material. He's only prominent in two statistical categories this season, as he's second in the CCIW in both FT percentage and steals, and neither of those categories is typically a ballot-influencing kind of category. What are ballot-influencing categories for a point guard, aside from scoring (where Yoder ranks a relatively modest 14th with 13.3 ppg), are assists and a:to ... and Yoder trails several other CCIW PGs (Rhode, who is the best CCIW PG by a country mile, Crishawn Cook, and Ryan Clarey) and is roughly equal with another (Jack Jelen) in those categories.

He's just not a first-teamer, Bob.

Glad Greg handled this so I didn't have to waste my time today.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

First Regional Rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2020/02/men-regional-rankings-first

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Let me be the first:

Oof.  Elmhurst at #8?  Wow.

[79jaybird]

What is the criteria for regional rankings?


AUGIE       16-6                 
Elmhurst   18-4 
Teams split their season series

Did Augie have some out of the region loss(es)?

All (4) of EC's losses are CCIW/in region for sure. 

So curious how Augie could be ahead of Elmhurst?   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

https://www.d3hoops.com/interactive/faq/ncaatournament

[Skinny Lance]

Let me be the first:

Oof.  Elmhurst at #8?  Wow.

Recency Bias.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Let me be the first:

Oof.  Elmhurst at #8?  Wow.

Recency Bias.

It's not, actually.  Looking at the numbers this one makes sense to me.  I think the vRRO will really settle a lot of things.  Benedictine is getting a bump for beating SNC - otherwise they'd be a lot lower.

Also, it looks like Augie's loss to NCC cost them four spots.  I think they'd be 3rd if they'd won that game.

[lmitzel]

Strength of schedule was the first thing that came to mind.

-Augie's SOS: .578
-Elmhurst's SOS: .526

Other thought that crossed my mind is that head to head/common opponents is a criteria, and even though they aren't counting RRO's yet, Elmhurst going 1-3 against the two teams above them (Augie 1-2, NCC 3-0) must have played something of a role.

Let me be the first:

Oof.  Elmhurst at #8?  Wow.

Recency Bias.

It's not, actually.  Looking at the numbers this one makes sense to me.  I think the vRRO will really settle a lot of things.  Benedictine is getting a bump for beating SNC - otherwise they'd be a lot lower.

Also, it looks like Augie's loss to NCC cost them four spots.  I think they'd be 3rd if they'd won that game.

I'll be interested to see how the rematch changes this in a week.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The big one in this region is UWSP not being ranked.  They don't have a stellar record, but they compare pretty evenly with Benedictine, so not being on there at all is a tough pill to swallow, for sure.

[79jaybird]

Thank you for the insight.  That Augie buzzer beater is looming even larger right now.  One (of a few) game(s) Elmhurst let slip away from them late. 

[Greek Tragedy]

The big one in this region is UWSP not being ranked.  They don't have a stellar record, but they compare pretty evenly with Benedictine, so not being on there at all is a tough pill to swallow, for sure.

How do they compare?

[lmitzel]

The big one in this region is UWSP not being ranked.  They don't have a stellar record, but they compare pretty evenly with Benedictine, so not being on there at all is a tough pill to swallow, for sure.

How do they compare?

BenU: .857/.493
UWSP: .667/.603