MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[HAMBO]

A Millikin prediction from November.

I'll be really surprised if Millikin wins more than a game or two in the CCIW. 

As I mentioned at the time, I might have said that about Brandeis a few seasons ago and probably said that about Chicago this season and so I removed the name of the poster.

Thanks, Greg, for your accurate summary of the Millikin basketball situation.  I can remember in recent history that several posters were commenting that maybe Millikin should drop out of the CCIW and join a league with teams like MacMurray -- etc.  I am sure those basketball posters were unaware of the success of other Big Blue teams who were CCIW champs or contenders such as wrestling, baseball, cross-country, track and field, softball, woman's basketball, woman's volleyball, etc.

But keeping with basketball, it should be noted that during many of Millikin's losing teams, the coaches were real gentlemen and truly nice guys.  We all know of the saying that "nice guys finish last". I never did believe that and Coach Sode is a true example. Kramer is a class act and a great CCIW representative.  He is worthy of being coach of the year.

The real question is: "can Millikin sustain a strong program?".  Lets hope that Coach Sode can recruit as well as he can coach.  He has great assistant coaches.

Nevertheless, this is a good opportunity to say something about what is easily the most remarkable and interesting story in the CCIW this season, which is Millikin. To say that the Big Blue men's basketball program has been woeful in this millennium would be a severe understatement. Millikin has only had three overall winning seasons since Y2K -- including Y2K -- despite annually playing a non-conference schedule larded with SLIAC teams, and the Big Blue has not finished on the plus side of the ledger in CCIW play since they went 8-6 in 1998-99. For those of you keeping track, that 1998-99 season for Millikin was four head coaches ago. That was also the last time that Millikin finished in the CCIW's first division; since then, aside from the 6-8 campaign in '04 in which they finished fifth, they've been in the CCIW's bottom three every season. And nobody is likely to forget when they bottomed out in 2010-11 and 2011-12 by going 1-23 and 1-24, respectively, losing all 28 CCIW games during that stretch -- one of them a league-record 70-point loss at the hands of Augie -- fielding the two worst CCIW teams I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot of bad CCIW teams, an uncomfortable number of which have worn my alma mater's livery).

The ultimate futility actually stretches back even further. Millikin's last CCIW title was 33 years ago, making the Big Blue's stretch without a championship the second-longest in league history behind the 48 years that Elmhurst spent in the wilderness before Knuppel & Co. brought the Bluejays to the promised land in 2000-01. That title season in 1988-89, in which Millikin was led by premier sharpshooter Brian Horst as well as Jeff Slapak and big man Jeff Bottorff (whose son, to add insult to injury, decided to play college ball for Augustana rather than his dad's alma mater), was also the last time that MU played in the D3 tourney, which means that Millikin is currently enduring the longest tourney drought in CCIW history.

More recently, the Big Blue hit rock bottom again at the end of Mark Scherer's tenure as head coach by losing 28 of the 30 CCIW games that they played over the past two seasons. Given that, plus the fact that the team hired a new head coach in April who had served as Scherer's second chair during that bottoming-out, our protected poster's 2021-22 prediction for the Big Blue seemed reasonable.

Instead, a funny thing happened. The new head coach, Kramer Soderberg, slotted three freshmen into his rotation -- guards J.T. Welch and Noah Livingston and forward Drake Stevenson -- who, although they're hardly world-beaters, fit perfectly into his system and have managed to hold their own in CCIW play. Meanwhile, everybody he inherited from those awful teams that he'd tried to help coach alongside Scherer got better -- even Calvin Fisher, who was already an All-CCIW second-teamer. They really began to personify the kind of hard-nosed and vigorous team ball that can overcome talent gaps, which they displayed with aplomb in last night's upset of #15 Elmhurst. (When was the last time that the Big Blue upset a d3hoops.com Top 25 team, anyway? Have they ever done it at all? Your guess is as good as mine.)

The upshot of the matter is that Millikin is 14-10, 9-6 going into Saturday's regular-season finale at Wheaton. As Lucas pointed out, the Big Blue have clinched fifth place, and, thus, the #5 seed and will make their first-ever CCIW tourney appearance in the standard six-team format next week. In honor of that, I'm breaking standard neutrality policy and becoming an unabashed Millikin rooter from here on out this season.

This will be the umpteenth time that I've complained on this board about the ridiculous policy that CCIW coaches employ of automatically bestowing the CCIW Coach of the Year award upon the coach or coaches of the championship team or teams. It's as plain as the nose on your face that the true CCIW Coach of the Year in 2021-22 is, indisputably and by a large margin, Kramer Soderberg.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[WUPHF]

All in a day's fun here on CCIW Chat.

It has been a quite year, but this is still a fun place to hang out.  +1 all around for the thoughts on Millikin.

[Next Man Up]

Millikin, who will finish fifth, has beaten everyone except IWU and North Central at least once. They will play 4th place NCC in the conference tournament. While the Cardinals have been victorious in both of this season's meetings, we're all familiar with the adage that it's hard to beat the same team three times in the same season. The question that naturally arises is will NCC be able to avoid the "3rd time's a charm" bugaboo?

[Pat Coleman]

My head has also been on the chopping block repeatedly lately. Since mid December my unrequited lover(s) has/have cut me about 50 times with the frequency slightly increased over the last month. This despite my not having posted anything very controversial, or accusing anyone of felonious assault or lascivious carriage.

The post where you goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board was what, then? 

[markerickson]

Not too long ago the CCIW football coaches bequeathed Coach of the Year honors to Mr. Conway whose NPU Viking squad finished below .500 in conference play.   I think Millikin's coach is a lock for the coaching award.

[Gregory Sager]

Millikin, who will finish fifth, has beaten everyone except IWU and North Central at least once. They will play 4th place NCC in the conference tournament. While the Cardinals have been victorious in both of this season's meetings, we're all familiar with the adage that it's hard to beat the same team three times in the same season.

Yes, we're all familiar with it because every time that it's posted I point out that it's worded incorrectly.

The correct phrasing of the adage is that it's hard to beat a good team three times in the same season. It's typically quite easy to beat the same team three times in one season, if the winning team is the best team in the league and the losing team is the worst. Dubuque (18-6, 13-2 ARC) has beaten Simpson (5-19, 2-13 ARC) twice already, the first time by 21 points and the second time by 22. Do you really think that the Spartans would be shaking in their shoes if presented with the task of playing the Storm a third time?

[lmitzel]

So, I have a bunch of certificate paper in the office that will never be used and student workers who need things to do.

If three more people post that Soderberg should be the coach of the year (and we do not get 5 counter arguments), I will take the time to mail him a certificate announcing him as the d3boards CCIW chat coach of the year.

So, USee was one, I guess Greg was two... does that make me number 3? Get those students to work.

Not too long ago the CCIW football coaches bequeathed Coach of the Year honors to Mr. Conway whose NPU Viking squad finished below .500 in conference play.   I think Millikin's coach is a lock for the coaching award.

Unfortuantely, given how these votes have historically gone, the award will probably go to Ron Rose. And I mean no disrespect to him because he's a great coach and is clearly part of why they've gone 13-2 with just a pair of road losses to the current #2 and #3 seeds in the conference. But the Titans were the preseason pick to win the CCIW (albeit in a fairly contested poll). Compare that to the team that was almost unanimously picked to finish last in the conference finishing fifth, with a winning record, with wins against some of the top teams in the CCIW? Kramer Soderberg should get the award this year.

[Gregory Sager]

Not too long ago the CCIW football coaches bequeathed Coach of the Year honors to Mr. Conway whose NPU Viking squad finished below .500 in conference play.   I think Millikin's coach is a lock for the coaching award.

Nope. The CCIW football coaches handle their award differently than the CCIW men's basketball coaches do. The football coaches base theirs upon relative merit; if you take your team from last place the year before to, say, fourth place this year, you'll likely win the award, because your team improved demonstrably more than anybody else's. This is what happened with NPU's Mike Conway in 2013, as you cited. But the men's basketball coaches automatically bestow their Coach of the Year award upon whomever coached the championship team. If the championship is shared, then the award is shared as well. (Thus, the three-way tie for the championship in 2016-17 between North Park, Augustana, and Carthage resulted in Tom Slyder, Grey Giovanine, and Bosko Djurickovic all sharing the COY award.)

The CCIW men's basketball coaches have handled it this way ever since the award was created for the 2001-02 season. The only exception was in 2002-03, when the league title was shared by Augustana, Carthage, and Illinois Wesleyan, but only IWU's Scott Trost got the award. (My guess is that that particular conference call bruised so many egos that they all agreed from that point forward that if the title was shared, the award would be shared as well.)

Most other CCIW sports have traditionally followed the merit-based selection that the football coaches use -- although I note to my dismay that the women's basketball coaches and the women's volleyball coaches have each strung together several years now in which the COY has corresponded to the coach of the championship team, a troubling trend that I hope doesn't mean that the men's basketball coaches are spreading their insidious awards ideology like it was a new iteration of the Covid-19 virus.

Ron Rose will be named the 2021-22 CCIW men's basketball Coach of the Year, Mark. It's a foregone conclusion.

[kiko]

I just thought it was amusing that I was living rent-free in someone's head.  Turns out I apparently have roommates.

I am curious, are we living through one of the more unusual research projects that is sure to be published as an undergraduate thesis in sociology?  Russian bots?  Or are there a couple of complete losers out there with nothing more to do?

Having been the recent subject of a master's degree project in journalism, as you're all aware, I love your first suggestion. The second suggestion tickles me even more, and if it's true I'd like to take this opportunity to say, Ostav'te nas v pokoye, gryaznyye ublyudki!

Alas, long experience tells me that the third option is the most likely.

I agree that it is likely door #3.

I first raised this issue, so I should note that a poster who I will not name but who is much more clever than I am PMed me to say:

1. They are also being smited on daily basis of late, and often around a particular time.
2. They have been online several times when it happens.  (Hitting refresh shows the upcount.)
3. They can look at "recent activity" and see who happens to be online.

And there seems to be one recurringly consistent name in the list of registered users who happen to be online.

This is clearly circumstantial rather than definitive proof, and I will not name names here in the spirit of peace, love, and understanding.  But it is worth noting that the culprit may be only as well-hidden as my cat is when he hides behind a curtain but leaves his magnificently fluffy tail sticking out.

[iwu70]

Guys, get real.  Ron Rose is the Coach of the Year.  Winning is all . . .

Yes, the MU Coach has done a great job.  I agree.  I wish him more success.  When he gets the Big Blue to a conference championship, outright, two games ahead of everyone else, he will be Coach of the Year. 

Here comes more regional rankings, the CCIW tournament at The Shirk and bids for the D3 Dance.  I hope the CCIW gets three teams in . . . Millikin will not be one of them.  That Elmhurst loss does hurt their chances . . .

My prediction is that only IWU and Wheaton get in, get bids.

IWU'70

P.S.  Smite me all you wish . . . I never ever pay attention to that at all.   ms

[Next Man Up]

My head has also been on the chopping block repeatedly lately. Since mid December my unrequited lover(s) has/have cut me about 50 times with the frequency slightly increased over the last month. This despite my not having posted anything very controversial, or accusing anyone of felonious assault or lascivious carriage.

The post where you goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board was what, then? 

Oh my God. I goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board?  You're kidding right? 

What I said was Titan Q "constantly provides us with a seemingly unending flood of information, sometimes welcome and sometimes unendurable, concerning all things Wesleyan." There is no doubt of this. It's right there. I mean all you have to do is read the board—page after page to the point that this board should be called The Wesleyan News. His Pool C analysis and related stuff is fantastic, but if an IWU player so much as sneezed, we'd all hear about it. Other posters expressed similar sentiments in PMs.

*And, I think you've overlooked the fact that Titan Q is a grown man who I couldn't "GOAD" into doing anything, any more than I could goad you into doing anything. Can you honestly deny that??

He "gave up the CCIW board" of his own free will and accord. I didn't MAKE him do anything. If all I had to say was it was tiring hearing all of his unending IWU stuff, well, that's really pretty weak. I don't think many regular posters would quit posting just because another poster said they were tired of his endless promotional posts about his school.

So again, TQ is his own man, and the assertion I "goaded" him into anything doesn't fly. While it would be nice, I don't believe I have that degree of power. But if you want to make me the scapegoat, and continue to smite me, fine.
And it's not like TQ isn't still posting at all. 

[Pat Coleman]

My head has also been on the chopping block repeatedly lately. Since mid December my unrequited lover(s) has/have cut me about 50 times with the frequency slightly increased over the last month. This despite my not having posted anything very controversial, or accusing anyone of felonious assault or lascivious carriage.

The post where you goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board was what, then? 

Oh my God. I goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board?  You're kidding right? 

What I said was Titan Q "constantly provides us with a seemingly unending flood of information, sometimes welcome and sometimes unendurable, concerning all things Wesleyan." There is no doubt of this. It's right there. I mean all you have to do is read the board—page after page to the point that this board should be called The Wesleyan News. His Pool C analysis and related stuff is fantastic, but if an IWU player so much as sneezed, we'd all hear about it. Other posters expressed similar sentiments in PMs.

*And, I think you've overlooked the fact that Titan Q is a grown man who I couldn't "GOAD" into doing anything, any more than I could goad you into doing anything. Can you honestly deny that??

He "gave up the CCIW board" of his own free will and accord. I didn't MAKE him do anything. If all I had to say was it was tiring hearing all of his unending IWU stuff, well, that's really pretty weak. I don't think many regular posters would quit posting just because another poster said they were tired of his endless promotional posts about his school.

So again, TQ is his own man, and the assertion I "goaded" him into anything doesn't fly. While it would be nice, I don't believe I have that degree of power. But if you want to make me the scapegoat, and continue to smite me, fine.
And it's not like TQ isn't still posting at all. 

I didn't say you made him do anything but I'll quote his words, as a reminder.

2. It's interesting that we've not yet received a usual post game summary/analysis from IWU Chief D3Hoops Correspondent Titan Q who always constantly provides us with a seemingly unending flood of information, sometimes welcome and sometimes unendurable, concerning all things Wesleyan.

I decided recently I am not interested in posting much here anymore.  I just don't enjoy it like I used to.

I made no postgame comments here after any of IWU's last 5 games - starting with *IWU wins* over NPU, Carroll, and Carthage.  I thought maybe I would just post my gameday information, etc to stay involved.

But your post, AndOne, reaffirms what I don't like about this place anymore. 

I've been part of this CCIW forum since day one - 24 years I think.  But this will be my last post here.  I'll probably participate in the Pool C and Top 25 boards on occasion.

I wish everyone well and have enjoyed the friendships that have originated here - especially with the late Dave Lawrenz who I still miss very much.

Good job. Well played.

I'm actually not on the boards myself often enough to hand you nearly as many smites as you complain of having received, but perhaps other posters see things the same way I do on this.

[Next Man Up]

Wow! You completely avoided the issue AND contradicted yourself at the same time. Nicely done.

You said "the post where you goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board was what, then?"
Now you reverse yourself and you say that you didn't say I made him do anything.
It sure seems like saying I goaded him into a certain action is pretty much the same thing as I made (was responsible for) him do something. Or, do we have to consult the English professor?

Oh, and speaking of goading. You say you're not around enough to hand me many smites, BUT "perhaps other posters will see things the same way I do on this." Sure looks like you, yourself, are attempting to GOAD others into taking a certain action that you can't as often as you'd like to. Looks like a perfect illustration of the pot calling the kettle black!!! Shocking! 

And, perhaps some other posters won't see things as you do. 
We all have opinions and nobody is right all the time.


"Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

[Gregory Sager]

My head has also been on the chopping block repeatedly lately. Since mid December my unrequited lover(s) has/have cut me about 50 times with the frequency slightly increased over the last month. This despite my not having posted anything very controversial, or accusing anyone of felonious assault or lascivious carriage.

The post where you goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board was what, then? 

Oh my God. I goaded Titan Q into giving up the CCIW board?  You're kidding right? 

What I said was Titan Q "constantly provides us with a seemingly unending flood of information, sometimes welcome and sometimes unendurable, concerning all things Wesleyan." There is no doubt of this. It's right there. I mean all you have to do is read the board—page after page to the point that this board should be called The Wesleyan News. His Pool C analysis and related stuff is fantastic, but if an IWU player so much as sneezed, we'd all hear about it. Other posters expressed similar sentiments in PMs.

*And, I think you've overlooked the fact that Titan Q is a grown man who I couldn't "GOAD" into doing anything, any more than I could goad you into doing anything. Can you honestly deny that??

He "gave up the CCIW board" of his own free will and accord. I didn't MAKE him do anything. If all I had to say was it was tiring hearing all of his unending IWU stuff, well, that's really pretty weak. I don't think many regular posters would quit posting just because another poster said they were tired of his endless promotional posts about his school.

So again, TQ is his own man, and the assertion I "goaded" him into anything doesn't fly. While it would be nice, I don't believe I have that degree of power. But if you want to make me the scapegoat, and continue to smite me, fine.
And it's not like TQ isn't still posting at all. 

I didn't say you made him do anything but I'll quote his words, as a reminder.

2. It's interesting that we've not yet received a usual post game summary/analysis from IWU Chief D3Hoops Correspondent Titan Q who always constantly provides us with a seemingly unending flood of information, sometimes welcome and sometimes unendurable, concerning all things Wesleyan.

I decided recently I am not interested in posting much here anymore.  I just don't enjoy it like I used to.

I made no postgame comments here after any of IWU's last 5 games - starting with *IWU wins* over NPU, Carroll, and Carthage.  I thought maybe I would just post my gameday information, etc to stay involved.

But your post, AndOne, reaffirms what I don't like about this place anymore. 

I've been part of this CCIW forum since day one - 24 years I think.  But this will be my last post here.  I'll probably participate in the Pool C and Top 25 boards on occasion.

I wish everyone well and have enjoyed the friendships that have originated here - especially with the late Dave Lawrenz who I still miss very much.

Good job. Well played.

I'm actually not on the boards myself often enough to hand you nearly as many smites as you complain of having received, but perhaps other posters see things the same way I do on this.

I don't. I think you're overstating it, Pat. For one thing, Bob had been tipping his hand about backing away from CCIW Chat for quite some time. Take, for example, this conversation about Twitter vs. d3boards.com that arose from my contention that Matt Helwig of NCC wasn't getting enough love in here, to which Bob had replied that he gets plenty of love on Twitter:

Well, congratulations. But, as I made clear in my earlier post, I'm talking about this room. What gets tweeted in that social-media cesspool is irrelevant to my point.

I feel like conversation about Division III basketball has been a lot better there than it has here for a while now.

And then there was this:

I used to live in Decatur and we loved it.  Decatur is a city of parks built around a beautiful lake.  Of course the Millikin campus is gorgeous.  What is missing from Decatur is an exotic night life, skyscrapers, and heavy traffic.  Some people enjoy a rural lifestyle.  I would prefer that CCIW fans state positive comments about all of the communities of this great conference.  Each institution adds its own amenities to the total value of the conference.

I have a lot of friends in Decatur and have had a lot of great times there.  It's a nice place -- even if I tease my Decatur friends from more of a Bloomington vs Decatur kinda thing in good fun.

Even though I grew up in Chicago, I've loved living in Bloomington-Normal, IL, Columbia, MO, and Lincoln, NE over the last 30 years.  All great places.

I agree with your desire for things to be more positive here.  I think, overall, the reason this board has been dying is that it tends to get really snarky and contentious.

You know this room as well as anyone, Pat, so you're well aware that wisecracks about Decatur are about as enduring a CCIW Chat chestnut as betting all the corn in Manito, or jokes about Illinois Wesleyan's five-guard lineup, or Bosko Djurickovic's midwinter tanning regimen, or Grey Giovanine sportcoat lore, or Chuck's periodic efforts to retroactively anoint Jack Sikma a D3 alumnus. The fact that Bob suddenly chose after all these years to use Decatur jokes as a pretext to condemning the board's tone was pretty telling.

I'm not shocked that Bob chose to announce his exit in response to something Mark posted, since Mark's obviously his least favorite fellow poster. But that could've been mere flourish rather than it being the straw that broke the camel's back; after all, by his own admission, Bob had basically cut down his posting in this room to his pregame IWU-game-lineup-and-media-links ritual for several weeks prior to his departure. And the true indicator of his displeasure was his explanation, "I just don't enjoy it like I used to," which is very nonspecific. For all I know, the true goad -- if there was one -- could've been my challenging him as to how soon Fillip Bulatovic could come back from a concussion protocol (and how publicly forthcoming Steve D. would've been about it), or all of the flak that posters on multiple boards have given to Yeshiva in the wake of Bob's triumphal moment as the architect of the much-ballyhooed inter-regional contest between Illinois Wesleyan and the Maccabees. Anything could've led to him hitting the send button on his farewell to us, including a combination of things ... or it might've been for reasons that had nothing to do with d3boards.com at all.

Mark aggravates me plenty, too, and he knows it. (I think he secretly enjoys it, too. ) But I don't recall anything that he's said, or anything that anybody has said, on this board that would ever make me contemplate leaving it. For Bob to do so really says a heck of a lot more about Bob than it does about Mark. (And, yes, Bob's most certainly entitled to spend his time and effort in any recreational activity he chooses. I don't begrudge him that one bit. And, for as much as I appreciate his efforts with pre-tournament analysis on the national boards and his excellent Q-Casts, I do miss having him around here.)

At best, Bob already had one foot out the door by the time that Mark posted his now-infamous "seemingly unending flood" post.

[Next Man Up]

Guys, get real.  Ron Rose is the Coach of the Year.  Winning is all . . .

Yes, the MU Coach has done a great job.  I agree.  I wish him more success.  When he gets the Big Blue to a conference championship, outright, two games ahead of everyone else, he will be Coach of the Year. 

Here comes more regional rankings, the CCIW tournament at The Shirk and bids for the D3 Dance.  I hope the CCIW gets three teams in . . . Millikin will not be one of them.  That Elmhurst loss does hurt their chances . . .

My prediction is that only IWU and Wheaton get in, get bids.

IWU'70

P.S.  Smite me all you wish . . . I never ever pay attention to that at all.   ms

Indeed 70. In keeping with unwritten law, Double R will undoubtedly be COY.

But shouldn't the way COY is determined be uniform across all the various sports?
Without attempting to goad anyone else into my way of thinking, I'll just say I personally think the coaches voting as to who is most deserving among their peers is the way to go.