MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[markerickson]

Helwig sure blossomed this year, and I agree he deserves the honor.  Very few players average over 90% from the charity stripe.  Kudos!!

If I read the stats correctly, did he really average six turnovers per game?

[USee]

Helwig is an AA for sure. Problem is there are a lot of great players in D3 this year and some, not saying MH is one, will end up on 2nd or 3rd team that are 1st team worthy. I would watch the all Region teams to get an idea who will likely end up on the D3  AA list. I would also think the Regional POY candidates will likely be the list from which the 1st team is chosen. Since there are 10 Regions that's a lot of POY's to consider. The good news is not all regions are created equal so it's fair to think  a few regions could get a disproportionate share of the awards.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Helwig is an AA for sure. Problem is there are a lot of great players in D3 this year and some, not saying MH is one, will end up on 2nd or 3rd team that are 1st team worthy. I would watch the all Region teams to get an idea who will likely end up on the D3  AA list. I would also think the Regional POY candidates will likely be the list from which the 1st team is chosen. Since there are 10 Regions that's a lot of POY's to consider. The good news is not all regions are created equal so it's fair to think  a few regions could get a disproportionate share of the awards.

Generally you have to get to HM before you start seeing players who don't have a case for first team.  It's absolutely the hardest thing we do all year.

[Gregory Sager]

Elmhurst hosts, and the 'jays will face Washington & Jefferson (22-4) from the Presidents' Athletic Conference on Friday night. Pomona-Pitzer (21-4) from the SCIAC and Northwestern (22-6) from the UMAC meet in the other Friday contest at Faganel Hall. This is as ideal a pod as John Baines & Co. could've ever wished for.

Illinois Wesleyan hosts Franklin (14-14) from the HCAC on Friday night. UW-LaCrosse (20-6) faces Heidelberg (18-7) in the other Friday game at Shirk. The Titans have a tougher pod overall than do the 'jays.

Wheaton is traveling down to the Gateway City and the Wash U Fieldhouse to take on perennial cross-lake Orange and Blue rival Hope (22-6) on Friday night. Wash U (18-7) will host Cornell (19-8) from the Midwest Conference in the other game. This is a tough row to hoe for the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance.

IWU and WC are in the same section of the bracket, the lower left. It's conceivable that they could meet in the Sweet Sixteen. EC is in the upper left section of the bracket. It's possible that the 'jays could play either Illinois Wesleyan or Wheaton in a national semifinal in Fort Wayne.

[USee]

Wheaton would potentially have to beat Hope, WashU, IWU, and Emory/Mt Union to get to FF.

Elmhurst has Wash Jeff, Pomona Pitz, UW Platteville, UW Oshkosh in their path.

[Next Man Up]

Helwig sure blossomed this year, and I agree he deserves the honor.  Very few players average over 90% from the charity stripe.  Kudos!!

If I read the stats correctly, did he really average six turnovers per game?

Oh no. Matt averaged 2.4 TOs per game. He also averaged 2.9 assists.

[Next Man Up]

Helwig is an AA for sure. Problem is there are a lot of great players in D3 this year and some, not saying MH is one, will end up on 2nd or 3rd team that are 1st team worthy. I would watch the all Region teams to get an idea who will likely end up on the D3  AA list. I would also think the Regional POY candidates will likely be the list from which the 1st team is chosen. Since there are 10 Regions that's a lot of POY's to consider. The good news is not all regions are created equal so it's fair to think  a few regions could get a disproportionate share of the awards.

Indeed. And, unfortunately as usual, a team's record and where it finishes in its conference will also play a role. Sometimes an inordinate one when compared to an individual's record as compared with that of his team.

[USee]

Helwig is an AA for sure. Problem is there are a lot of great players in D3 this year and some, not saying MH is one, will end up on 2nd or 3rd team that are 1st team worthy. I would watch the all Region teams to get an idea who will likely end up on the D3  AA list. I would also think the Regional POY candidates will likely be the list from which the 1st team is chosen. Since there are 10 Regions that's a lot of POY's to consider. The good news is not all regions are created equal so it's fair to think  a few regions could get a disproportionate share of the awards.

Indeed. And, unfortunately as usual, a team's record and where it finishes in its conference will also play a role. Sometimes an inordinate one when compared to an individual's record as compared with that of his team.

I think it plays much less of a role on the D3.com Regional and AA selections than it does for CCIW all conference/POY selections. If you are good and you played against good people, they usually find you. But record has a role in any of these things at EVERY level of sports. Especially in basketball where your star, as one of five, has a disproportionate impact on the game and should influence your W/L record accordingly.

[Gregory Sager]

Helwig is an AA for sure. Problem is there are a lot of great players in D3 this year and some, not saying MH is one, will end up on 2nd or 3rd team that are 1st team worthy. I would watch the all Region teams to get an idea who will likely end up on the D3  AA list. I would also think the Regional POY candidates will likely be the list from which the 1st team is chosen. Since there are 10 Regions that's a lot of POY's to consider. The good news is not all regions are created equal so it's fair to think  a few regions could get a disproportionate share of the awards.

Indeed. And, unfortunately as usual, a team's record and where it finishes in its conference will also play a role. Sometimes an inordinate one when compared to an individual's record as compared with that of his team.

Mark, be serious. Nobody's going to shortchange a player from the fourth-place CCIW team -- especially given his outsized 30 and 12 performance in taking down the league champion (and fifth-ranked team in the nation) on that league champion's home court in the CCIW tourney. Fourth place in a nine-team league isn't terrific, but a 17-10, 10-6 record is not a handicap for a CCIW team in terms of All-American considerations ... and, aside from the outstanding reputation of the CCIW, being the CCIW tourney runner-up outweighs whatever disadvantage might accrue from a fourth-place finish in the regular season. Besides, one of the upsides for Helwig is that Pat and Ryan and whomever else is helping to pick the team can slot him as either a guard or a forward. His flexibility is no small consideration, given that Pat's longstanding policy is to create All-American teams consisting of five players each on five tiers, each tier of which must be a legitimately functional team of three guards and two forwards or two guards and three forwards.

If Helwig will be hampered by anything, it'll be the fact that Matt Leritz will be the first guy from the CCIW that gets slotted (almost certainly as a first-teamer), since he's the league's MOP and that matters in terms of how the d3hoops.com All-American team is constructed. They might be reluctant to put Helwig on first team, too, simply because they don't want one league to hog 40% of the first team.

[Next Man Up]

While all the above points might have merit, I can't help but think the fact that NCC didn't win either the regular season title or the tournament, and consequently didn't make the national tournament, will be among the primary considerations in Matt's placement. And, even if this proves not to be the case, your point about them not especially wanting 2 guys from the same conference on the first team is certainly a valid consideration. So, ultimately, I think a first team selection would be a huge surprise, while anything lower than second team shouldn't even be a possibility.

[USee]

While all the above points might have merit, I can't help but think the fact that NCC didn't win either the regular season title or the tournament, and consequently didn't make the national tournament, will be among the primary considerations in Matt's placement. And, even if this proves not to be the case, your point about them not especially wanting 2 guys from the same conference on the first team is certainly a valid consideration. So, ultimately, I think a first team selection would be a huge surprise, while anything lower than second team shouldn't even be a possibility.

I'd prepare yourself for the impossible then. As already described multiple times in multiple places, placement from 1st team to some HM are all pretty fungible. So Helwig could end up anywhere in there and it wouldn't be an insult to most people (except you apparently). 

[Gregory Sager]

While all the above points might have merit, I can't help but think the fact that NCC didn't win either the regular season title or the tournament, and consequently didn't make the national tournament, will be among the primary considerations in Matt's placement. And, even if this proves not to be the case, your point about them not especially wanting 2 guys from the same conference on the first team is certainly a valid consideration. So, ultimately, I think a first team selection would be a huge surprise, while anything lower than second team shouldn't even be a possibility.

I'd prepare yourself for the impossible then. As already described multiple times in multiple places, placement from 1st team to some HM are all pretty fungible. So Helwig could end up anywhere in there and it wouldn't be an insult to most people (except you apparently).

I agree. Back in the day I used to help Pat with this process, and it's incredibly difficult. You can say that it's easier now, because webstreaming gives the people putting the d3hoops.com All-American team together the chance to watch just about every good player out there in D3 whenever he takes the floor. But there's still only 25 spots available, and there's more teams in D3 now than there were before the webstreaming revolution.

Mark, I know that you're obsessed with Helwig's fortunes regarding the A-A team, and I fully understand that. So does USee, especially since the process on the football side is practically identical. We've both been there, done that. Not that many years ago I was pushing for Juwan Henry and Jordan Robinson to get their A-A props the same way that you're pushing for Helwig. But you have to step back from that natural tendency to view your team's guy through the self-contained lens of a fan and see the entire 417-team landscape of D3 the way that the A-A team selectors must. There are a lot of really great players at this level, and they all have fans that are clamoring for their guys to make the A-A team as well.

[Next Man Up]

Well, I'm the closest to the action in this case so my campaigning comes pretty naturally. But, as you say, I'll step back a bit. In closing however, I should add that I think Mr. Adom of Wheaton also merits strong A-A consideration. 

[Gregory Sager]

Massey sez:

Elmhurst 87, Washington & Jefferson 73 (EU 88%, W&J 12%)
Illinois Wesleyan 77, Franklin 62 (IWU 92%, FC 8%)
Wheaton 77, Hope 73 (WC 63%, HC 37%)

Matt Snyder sez:

Elmhurst 93, Washington & Jefferson 76 (EU 93%, W&J 7%)
Illinois Wesleyan 81, Franklin 60 (IWU 97%, FC 3%)
Wheaton 78, Hope 76 (WC 57%, HC 42%)

[iwu70]

Seems to me that Elmhurst and IWU have relatively favorable draws, pods, for the first weekend.  Wheaton a tougher road at Wash U.  IWU has been there, done that, many times in the past!   Let's hope all three teams play well and get to the Sweet 16.  Good luck to all the CCIW teams this weekend.

'70