MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Next Man Up]

Three more recruits in Vince Kmiec's office today. Further evidence of his ability to get and keep kids interested in NCC in spite of the huge void that currently exists at the top of the coaching hierarchy for North Central Men's Basketball. 

[Next Man Up]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

[CardinalAlum]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he could/will do a great job if given the opportunity.  My issue was only in the comparison of the two coaches. Not saying VK hasn't paid his dues either.

[deepthroat]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

What's with the campaigning?

[itsnotmeitsyou]

I dont think thats true in this instance. The assistant at NCC is clearly experienced and ready. I think people thought the coaches at Carthage and Augie were ready but look where those teams finished this year.

We're those coaches 1st time head coaches? #askingforafriend

One had the most coaching/program experience you could possibly have (AND was passed over once already!) and the other had one of the great careers possible in the CCIW.

Learning to be a head coach in this league doesn't work out to well...

[itsnotmeitsyou]

1. Greg,
I was in no way implying the NPU hiring process was anything made up "on the fly." I'm sorry if it came off that way.
My post was actually intended as a compliment.

No worries. I understood it as a compliment.

All I can say is that I've been encouraged by what I've heard, which is that John Born got a huge response from dozens of what appear to be very capable coaches. It's made the winnowing process a little more laborious than he expected and perhaps more time-consuming on his part, but I'd rather that he had to burn the midnight oil a little longer because of an overabundance of quality applicants than because of a scarcity of them (the latter case of which burned North Park and completely wrecked the men's basketball program back in 1994).

NPU brought 4 finalists to campus for in person interviews during
That hiring cycle. Then:
#1 choice was offered and declined the job.
#2 choice was offered and declined the job.
#3 withdrew from consideration.
#4 was offered and accepted the job. He was surprised to get it - only applied hoping to get an interview so he could press his current school AD for additional resources/changes.

There wasn't a dearth of applicants, a plethora of circumstances (one of which was a poor due diligence process by the AD in selecting appropriate finalists), caused the process to result in the coaching selection.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

There are a myriad of reasons that coaches are offered and accept a head coaching position. You be amazed at the # of times that the announced selection is NOT the top one or two choices (see my posts just minutes ago).

Within the last decade or so, a candidate (who was a current HC at another college) applied to TWO CCIW schools for their head coaching position - interviewed at both places (was the 1st to interview at one school and was the last to interview at the other among finalists) - was offered job at school A and choose not to wait for an offer at school B (even though he wanted school B) - he was fired in a few short years (school B had their coaching selection leave after one season).

Timing. Other job options. Location. Salary. Recruiting potential. Job quality vs rest of conference. President/AD stability. School commitment to winning. Other candidates turning the job down. Gender. Many, many other factors....

ALL of these factor into who gets the job. IF the NCC asst. gets the gig - it just means he got the gig. NOT that he was the best choice.

[GoPerry]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

Just a thought. 

Wouldn't it be best for the school, the program, and the eventual head coach to engage a thorough search process, interviewing various candidates including Vince?  It's okay if he is the front-runner and it would be okay if everyone thought he was the front runner. 

I would think that it would be stronger overall endorsement of him, and perhaps less pressure going forward, if he got the job as a result of a great process and found to be the best candidate.  That, as opposed to many former players, alumni and yes even the previous head coach (for whom I have enormous respect).

It's tough enough following in the footsteps of a great long tenured and successful coach.  But I just wonder what added pressure might come in answering to well meaning friends who "got him the job" so to speak.

Again, just a thought.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

Some AD's are VERY good at the hiring process... others are decidedly not.

Good AD's have an innate sense of leadership potential; some always have a list of intriguing candidates for potential openings in their Dept.; others are exceptional at the myriad of steps involved in vetting and interviewing candidates.

Keep in mind that often AD's are prevented from directing the process or choosing they candidate they want based on protocols placed on them by superiors (one recent CCIW search is a direct example of this).

Some AD's don't have a clue about how to hire coaches in general or have a "blind spot" for a specific coach.  There is a HUGE difference in managing a dept. (budget, policies, fundraising, etc.) and understanding how to manage people (which includes selection and hiring).

[deepthroat]

1. Greg,
I was in no way implying the NPU hiring process was anything made up "on the fly." I'm sorry if it came off that way.
My post was actually intended as a compliment.

No worries. I understood it as a compliment.

All I can say is that I've been encouraged by what I've heard, which is that John Born got a huge response from dozens of what appear to be very capable coaches. It's made the winnowing process a little more laborious than he expected and perhaps more time-consuming on his part, but I'd rather that he had to burn the midnight oil a little longer because of an overabundance of quality applicants than because of a scarcity of them (the latter case of which burned North Park and completely wrecked the men's basketball program back in 1994).

NPU brought 4 finalists to campus for in person interviews during
That hiring cycle. Then:
#1 choice was offered and declined the job.
#2 choice was offered and declined the job.
#3 withdrew from consideration.
#4 was offered and accepted the job. He was surprised to get it - only applied hoping to get an interview so he could press his current school AD for additional resources/changes.

There wasn't a dearth of applicants, a plethora of circumstances (one of which was a poor due diligence process by the AD in selecting appropriate finalists), caused the process to result in the coaching selection.

yikes

[Gregory Sager]

1. Greg,
I was in no way implying the NPU hiring process was anything made up "on the fly." I'm sorry if it came off that way.
My post was actually intended as a compliment.

No worries. I understood it as a compliment.

All I can say is that I've been encouraged by what I've heard, which is that John Born got a huge response from dozens of what appear to be very capable coaches. It's made the winnowing process a little more laborious than he expected and perhaps more time-consuming on his part, but I'd rather that he had to burn the midnight oil a little longer because of an overabundance of quality applicants than because of a scarcity of them (the latter case of which burned North Park and completely wrecked the men's basketball program back in 1994).

NPU brought 4 finalists to campus for in person interviews during
That hiring cycle. Then:
#1 choice was offered and declined the job.
#2 choice was offered and declined the job.
#3 withdrew from consideration.
#4 was offered and accepted the job. He was surprised to get it - only applied hoping to get an interview so he could press his current school AD for additional resources/changes.

There wasn't a dearth of applicants, a plethora of circumstances (one of which was a poor due diligence process by the AD in selecting appropriate finalists), caused the process to result in the coaching selection.

I don't want to respond to this person, but this needs to be cleared up for the record. I'm not going to get into the weeds by discussing Gregg Gierke's loyalty to his former coach, or Arkansas-Little Rock, or Rose-Hulman, or one very perplexed and disillusioned DePaul assistant coach. And it is true that the late Jerry Chaplin, who was the AD of North Park College (not NPU) at the time, neglected to do due diligence when he fired Bosko Djurickovic, thinking that he had another successful Dan McCarrell protégé lined up to replace the Serbian Prince. But the fact of the matter is this: There was a scarcity of quality applicants for the NPC men's basketball head coaching job in 1994, and only one of that few was willing to take the job for what NPC was offering: Keith Peterson.

It's not that Peterson came with red flags; quite the opposite. He'd taken Walther Christian (then called Walther Lutheran) to a third-place finish downstate back in 1987-88, although it was not too terribly difficult to do that back then in Class A if you were a private school that had two future D1 scholarship players (one of 'em a future NBAer, Ashraf Amaya) enrolled. And the modest 52-50 record he'd accrued in his four years running Concordia (IL) did include wins in his final season there over a pair of CCIW schools, Elmhurst (13-12) and Carthage (3-21). Based upon his résumé, he was a fairly reasonable choice to move up to a CCIW head coaching job. The problem was that there was nobody against whom to measure Peterson, since the other four people Chaplin had previously contacted had either refused to take the job out of principle or because the salary Chaplin offered wasn't nearly high enough for them to seriously consider the job. As indicated above, Peterson was surprised to get the offer -- but he got it because he was the only quality applicant available.

And that's my whole point. If you've made the decision to hire from outside rather than going in-house with a known commodity, you almost certainly need a good pool of quality applicants from whom to whittle down your final choice. If you've only got one quality guy who wants the job rather than several, you have no options whatsoever. And NPC certainly paid the price for not having a real choice in 1994, as Peterson turned the once-proud Vikings program into a laughingstock.

[Next Man Up]

We know that the immediate past Head Coach, many past players, parents of past players, current players, parents of current players, other program-supportive alums, and non-alum community boosters, have written and/or called in voicing support of Vince for the Head Coach position.

However, here might be the strongest endorsement of all for Vince Kmiec..................
I recently had a two hour conversation with a very successful D3 coach who is highly desirous of the position, and who is among the applicants. During our conversation I told him he is my second choice for the job should, for whatever incomprehensible reason, Vince not get it. He then told me that he had previously talked to Vince and told him that he (Vince) is the top choice for the job and should be the choice if he wants it. Imagine that. An applicant for a job saying another applicant should get the job.

***Can there be any doubt about the best choice here?

There are a myriad of reasons that coaches are offered and accept a head coaching position. You be amazed at the # of times that the announced selection is NOT the top one or two choices (see my posts just minutes ago).

Within the last decade or so, a candidate (who was a current HC at another college) applied to TWO CCIW schools for their head coaching position - interviewed at both places (was the 1st to interview at one school and was the last to interview at the other among finalists) - was offered job at school A and choose not to wait for an offer at school B (even though he wanted school B) - he was fired in a few short years (school B had their coaching selection leave after one season).

Timing. Other job options. Location. Salary. Recruiting potential. Job quality vs rest of conference. President/AD stability. School commitment to winning. Other candidates turning the job down. Gender. Many, many other factors....

ALL of these factor into who gets the job. IF the NCC asst. gets the gig - it just means he got the gig. NOT that he was the best choice.

You're probably right. I probably would be surprised at the # of times an announced selection was not the first or second choice. BUT, you might well be surprised at the number of times the announced selection was the first choice. 

And, in this particular instance, I'd be willing to bet that whoever the first choice is, he won't be turning down the offer. You really think there are many coaches out there who wouldn't jump at the opportunity to head up a high profile program at a school that competes in arguably the best D3 basketball conference in the country?

I'm not stupid enough to think there isn't more than one guy who would do a great job. But I'm also not stupid enough to just blindly jump on the bandwagon of "the NCC asst.," or anyone else for that matter, without taking into consideration what I know about his personality, his ability to recruit and coach, his knowledge of the concerned institution and the culture of said institution, plus the opinions of others that I know that know him well. There certainly will be other strong candidates. I even personally know some of them! Good guys and good coaches. Furthermore, I'm more than willing to consider others opinions. If you know why someone might be a better choice lay it on me. But please don't come at me with generalities about stuff like someone already being a head coach because I'll come back with something like "ya, but what's his record? What is the competitive level of the conference he coaches in as compared to the CCIW? Has he recruited any kids that better or equal level programs were after? I freely admit I'm not the sharpest nail in the box in many instances. But, I have been pretty deeply ingrained in the bb program at NCC and the CCIW in general for the last 18 years, and I have learned a pretty good amount about the personalities and abilities of many people, both players and others, in those realms over the years and how those personalities and talents compare with the competition they face on a consistent basis. Add to that a fair degree of knowledge about what goes on behind the scenes of what's otherwise outwardly apparent. That's a lot of why I'm pretty confident in saying I think I have a strong base for my feelings/opinion in this case. Also, throw out my opinion if you want. Even throw out the opinion of one of the most successful coaches in D3 history. The fact is, there are quite a good number of other people who have written and called in expressing the same opinion. They just aren't posters here. Lastly, I go back to the fact that another candidate, who would be a great choice, said he thinks Vince should be the first choice. Can there truly be a stronger endorsement than one from quite possibly your toughest competition out there?
I think not. And I think that's enough.

[Next Man Up]

It looks like the interview process at NPU is rapidly approaching it's conclusion. I know they will be interviewing a candidate tomorrow, and I would think that will quite likely be the final interview that is conducted. Accordingly, we might know the identity of the next NPU head coach next week or soon thereafter.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

1. Greg,
I was in no way implying the NPU hiring process was anything made up "on the fly." I'm sorry if it came off that way.
My post was actually intended as a compliment.

No worries. I understood it as a compliment.

All I can say is that I've been encouraged by what I've heard, which is that John Born got a huge response from dozens of what appear to be very capable coaches. It's made the winnowing process a little more laborious than he expected and perhaps more time-consuming on his part, but I'd rather that he had to burn the midnight oil a little longer because of an overabundance of quality applicants than because of a scarcity of them (the latter case of which burned North Park and completely wrecked the men's basketball program back in 1994).

NPU brought 4 finalists to campus for in person interviews during
That hiring cycle. Then:
#1 choice was offered and declined the job.
#2 choice was offered and declined the job.
#3 withdrew from consideration.
#4 was offered and accepted the job. He was surprised to get it - only applied hoping to get an interview so he could press his current school AD for additional resources/changes.

There wasn't a dearth of applicants, a plethora of circumstances (one of which was a poor due diligence process by the AD in selecting appropriate finalists), caused the process to result in the coaching selection.

I don't want to respond to this person, but this needs to be cleared up for the record. I'm not going to get into the weeds by discussing Gregg Gierke's loyalty to his former coach, or Arkansas-Little Rock, or Rose-Hulman, or one very perplexed and disillusioned DePaul assistant coach. And it is true that the late Jerry Chaplin, who was the AD of North Park College (not NPU) at the time, neglected to do due diligence when he fired Bosko Djurickovic, thinking that he had another successful Dan McCarrell protégé lined up to replace the Serbian Prince. But the fact of the matter is this: There was a scarcity of quality applicants for the NPC men's basketball head coaching job in 1994, and only one of that few was willing to take the job for what NPC was offering: Keith Peterson.

It's not that Peterson came with red flags; quite the opposite. He'd taken Walther Christian (then called Walther Lutheran) to a third-place finish downstate back in 1987-88, although it was not too terribly difficult to do that back then in Class A if you were a private school that had two future D1 scholarship players (one of 'em a future NBAer, Ashraf Amaya) enrolled. And the modest 52-50 record he'd accrued in his four years running Concordia (IL) did include wins in his final season there over a pair of CCIW schools, Elmhurst (13-12) and Carthage (3-21). Based upon his résumé, he was a fairly reasonable choice to move up to a CCIW head coaching job. The problem was that there was nobody against whom to measure Peterson, since the other four people Chaplin had previously contacted had either refused to take the job out of principle or because the salary Chaplin offered wasn't nearly high enough for them to seriously consider the job. As indicated above, Peterson was surprised to get the offer -- but he got it because he was the only quality applicant available.

And that's my whole point. If you've made the decision to hire from outside rather than going in-house with a known commodity, you almost certainly need a good pool of quality applicants from whom to whittle down your final choice. If you've only got one quality guy who wants the job rather than several, you have no options whatsoever. And NPC certainly paid the price for not having a real choice in 1994, as Peterson turned the once-proud Vikings program into a laughingstock.

Well... the AD had exactly THREE other candidates to measure the Coach in question against - and he was deemed to be last in comparison.  If the AD didn't like the search results, he could simply started over. If there were ONLY 4 people that applied, then you're right - the pool wasn't large enough. However, you know that wasn't the case. Hell, there were 65-70 applicants when they made
the worst hire in program history: Dylan Howard (who was just fired recently from his most recent gig).

[itsnotmeitsyou]

1. Greg,
I was in no way implying the NPU hiring process was anything made up "on the fly." I'm sorry if it came off that way.
My post was actually intended as a compliment.

2. However long anyone thinks the NPU selection process is taking, it seems to be moving toward conclusion faster than another school's process involving filling the same respective position. And this is rather confusing because the fact is a substantial number of people feel that school #2 has a well qualified individual that's already on staff, and should have already been named to fill the vacancy, much like was done when the head football position came open recently.

I don't believe they're as similar as you're implying when you factor in the difference in the years of experience in the two.

Carlos,
Anyone associated with NCC athletics in general and football specifically is aware of Brad's multiple years of experience and excellence as a player and assistant coach prior to being named to the head position. And while Vince can't match the number of years Brad has been around, the fact is he has 12 years of experience at NCC as a student-athlete, and graduate assistant, assistant and, for the last four years, Head Assistant Coach. And, for all of those 12 years, he has learned how to both play and coach under one of the most successful head coaches in the entire history of Division 3 basketball, as only 29 coaches in history have more wins than Todd Raridon compiled. Vince also has the support of the team which has already met with Jim Miller en masse to voice their support.

Many basketball and other alums have likewise written and/or called both Athletic and College Administration officials on Vince's behalf.

Additionally, and possibly the strongest point in Vince's favor is this fact. No matter what Todd Raridon's relationship with NCC had become prior/since his resignation, the fact remains the he is the greatest coach in NCC basketball history. And he has said that Vince is ready, and should get the job. Todd would know better than anyone else who should get that job, especially when some of the other people who will be applying are guys that have coached for him, but that he did not select as his choice for the Head coaching position.

The fact that players, parents, alumni, and local supporters have all expressed their support is a fact that should not be denied. Lastly, Vince continues to demonstrate his loyalty to NCC as he continues to recruit on a daily basis under the most difficult of conditions.

It is the rare instance, and there are a couple of exceptions, where a 1st time head coach has any meaningful success in CCIW basketball (which is also true, albeit to a lesser extent, on the womens' side).  Generally speaking, this is NOT a league for "student teachers". Certainly league/program familiarity can mitigate a lack of head coaching experience The fact that A candidate has already been on staff for a number of years and has not already been offered the job should tell you all you need to know about his desirability. assistants that are elevated and become successful head coaches are a "no doubters" that even Ray Charles can "see" during their time on staff.

Aaaaaaaaaaah. I'm dying over here!
Some would disagree, but I think you have made some thoughtful posts, itsnotmeitsyou. 
However, your above statement which I bolded makes the same degree of sense as saying Vladimir Putin is the world's greatest humanitarian and lover of peace.
Perhaps you've forgotten that you, yourself recently posted Don't expect the coaching vacancy in Naperville to be filled anytime soon. The hiring process at that institution moves at the speed of the global techtonic plates. 

Took NPU 10 days to find/announce their new Womens Coach (the current asst coach already on staff).

It took NCC about that long to simply post the job opening on their own website!! If they're so sure the current assistant is the "one", why haven't they hired him yet? They did that w/ football in what, 1 or 2 days?

This place moves  s   l   o   w!