MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[itsnotmeitsyou]

According to a source involved in the NCC hiring process (a part of the phone interview process to this point), who won't divulge candidate names or identifiers, if you do not have head coaching experience, it is a very, very steep uphill climb to be successful.

While I am dubious of the decision-making ability of the person in charge of this hire, at least they are focusing on an experienced candidate.

So you have someone who has been a head coach for several years and has won about 40% of his games. Not a glittering record.
Then you have a former All Conference player who has seven years of assistant coaching experience at NCC following his NCC playing career. A career NCC guy who for 11 years has been playing for, coaching under, and learning from one of the greatest coaches in the history of Division 3, and who is 30th in wins in D3 history. This is a guy who is so devoted to NCC that, as Recruiting Coordinator in addition to his Head Asst position, has continued to recruit even though he may soon no longer have a job at NCC. He has recently been in Michigan recruiting. One day recently he had three recruits on campus the same day, and two on another day. These potential recruits are in addition to the 4 or 5 kids, including an All-State player, who committed prior to Todd Raridon's resignation. Kids who might change their minds if Todd and Vince are both gone.

So, do you want someone who isn't an NCC guy and who has a losing record, mainly just because he has been a head coach, or do you want a guy who has been a top assistant for seven years at NCC following his All-Conference playing career? A local guy who knows the primary CCIW recruiting territory well. A NCC career guy so devoted that he has continued to work tirelessly on behalf of the school even in the face of the possibility that they might soon tell him "thanks, but we'll see you." I really think Vince has earned the chance to see what he can do.
And, keep in mind that I'm not the only one. Several former players, parents, alums, and boosters have written or called in expressing their concern for Vince. Also, and maybe most importantly, a few weeks ago the NCC team marched into the Athletic Director's office en masse to express their desire to continue to play for Vince

As far as the above comment regarding "the person in charge of this hire," I'm honestly not sure who that will be. I thought I knew, but due to the makeup of the group that recently conducted phone interviews, I am no longer sure. The only thing I am sure of is who should be in charge.

Here are some facts that we know:
- EVERY asst coach hoping to be bumped up needs: 1) to continue doing his job; 2) needs near total support from players and alums; and 3) the support of his former boss - all to simply have ANY chance (this is not unique to NCC)
- during the last basketball coaching search (WBB), the current AD did not promote the full-time asst. despite coming from a D1 job and previously starting a Womens program from scratch that finished Year 6 w/ a 33-1 record (losing in the National Championship game!) AND single-handlely bringing in the best WBB recruiting class in 10yrs
- the AD was told the profile of the coach he needed to hire by superiors prior to that search (so far, said coach is 30-61 in 4yrs)
- the current leadership at NCC thinks so highly of said asst. that they did NOT name him the "Interim Head Coach"

I don't WANT anyone to get this job - I have no dog in the hunt.  I just know from decades of experience that this league is not one for "student teachers". History shows, and will continue to repeat itself, that 1st time HC's sink rather than swim.

(btw - the reason why the current players like Vince so much is because he is NOT Rairdon! Same goes for the game officials too!)

[WUPHF]

- the current leadership at NCC thinks so highly of said asst. that they did NOT name him the "Interim Head Coach"

Is this unusual for a program when the coaching change happens after the season has been completed?

[itsnotmeitsyou]

- the current leadership at NCC thinks so highly of said asst. that they did NOT name him the "Interim Head Coach"

Is this unusual for a program when the coaching change happens after the season has been completed?

Yes. Especially when there is a coach already on staff deemed viable to continue in an "official" leadership role.

[Next Man Up]

Naming an interim head coach when they are accepting applications and are in the process of naming a new head coach is truly a senseless exercise, especially when you consider the next season is seven months away. No games are being currently, and formal practice isn't even anywhere near beginning. If Raridon had resigned a week or two prior to beginning of next season, or in the middle of the season then I'm sure Vince would have received that designation. But at this time it's needless. What did you want them to do—name an interim coach for 4 weeks or so and then say "OK, you're not interim coach anymore, if fact you're not a coach at all anymore." Asinine waste of time.

And ya, let's bring in some guy with head coaching experience. No matter that he's had a losing record in a conference nowhere near as tough as the CCIW. No matter that several of his recruits are guys no or few CCIW coaches had near the top of their wish lists. No matter the personality of the guy. No matter he'll alienate as many people as he will make friends of the program. No matter that he's not a NCC guy. No matter because he's been a head coach and that's all that matters.

Vince has already done his "student teaching" as you put it. He's been doing it for 11 years. Time for a promotion.

* And yes, I know a guy with head coaching experience that I think would do great job. I'm just not confident he'll get the job if Vince doesn't. And while he would be a fine choice, HE SAID VINCE SHOULD GET THE JOB. Case closed!

Lastly, if you know, please tell us who the person is that is in charge of this hire. And if you are "dubious of the decision making ability" of this person why do you think he/she is in charge? 

[WUPHF]

Naming an interim head coach when they are accepting applications and are in the process of naming a new head coach is truly a senseless exercise, especially when you consider the next season is seven months away. No games are being currently, and formal practice isn't even anywhere near beginning. If Raridon had resigned a week or two prior to beginning of next season, or in the middle of the season then I'm sure Vince would have received that designation. But at this time it's needless. What did you want them to do—name an interim coach for 4 weeks or so and then say "OK, you're not interim coach anymore, if fact you're not a coach at all anymore." Asinine waste of time.

I have paid attention to enough hires to say I agree with this.

[markerickson]

Is Coach Rose committed to a lifetime in central Illinois?

If a trend develops of hiring young, then perhaps CCIW gigs are stepping stones as opposed to destinations.

[bbfan44]

If Duke can promote an assistant coach to head coach, why can't North Central?

[USee]

If Duke can promote an assistant coach to head coach, why can North Central?

Duke also added a head coach as an assistant!

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2022/04/duke-basketball-mike-schrage-nolan-smith-jon-scheyer-elon

[WUPHF]

Vince Kmiec and Tom Slyder, let's go!

[Next Man Up]

Is Coach Rose committed to a lifetime in central Illinois?

If a trend develops of hiring young, then perhaps CCIW gigs are stepping stones as opposed to destinations.

On the theme of not having experience prior to being hired, Ron Rose had been a high school head coach, but had no such college experience prior to being hired by IWU. And, even those of us whose favorite color is not green would have to say he has done pretty darn well for himself.

[Next Man Up]

If Duke can promote an assistant coach to head coach, why can't North Central?

Because while the King was looking down, the jester stole his thorny crown? 

[itsnotmeitsyou]

If Duke can promote an assistant coach to head coach, why can't North Central?

I'm glad you asked this question (because 1st time HC's in the ACC have the same track record as 1st time HC's in the CCIW - and that's WHY it just doesn't happen very often).  In the last year: UNC, Duke, U of L made 1st HC hires; prior to that only 6 of the previous 60 hires (dating back to 1988) were first-timers.

The Ath. Dept. and Univ. leaders wanted to hire a Duke alum who had 25yrs of experience as a HC.
Coach K wanted to have his asst. promoted to the top job as a 1st yr HC.  If not for Coach K's adamant support, there would be an experienced HC at Duke.


https://www.si.com/college/2022/02/15/coach-k-duke-replacement-jon-scheyer-tommy-amaker

Duke's recruiting is done for the next two classes (2022 and 2023). He's off to a good start there... BUT he hasn't coached a game yet... will be VERY interesting to follow the developments to come.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

Ugh NMU... the more you post the less I think you understand the realities of college basketball job searches.  I'll try to respond point by point although I'm not nearly as well versed in chat room forum quote box formatting as Sager, but I'll try my best.

Naming an interim head coach when they are accepting applications and are in the process of naming a new head coach is truly a senseless exercise, especially when you consider the next season is seven months away. No games are being currently, and formal practice isn't even anywhere near beginning. If Raridon had resigned a week or two prior to beginning of next season, or in the middle of the season then I'm sure Vince would have received that designation. But at this time it's needless. What did you want them to do—name an interim coach for 4 weeks or so and then say "OK, you're not interim coach anymore, if fact you're not a coach at all anymore." Asinine waste of time.

This happens often and will continue to happen as a matter of standard operating procedure in this new Transfer Portal-era.  It's a sign that there is leadership in place for current players, committed recruits, and recruiting prospects.  Whether games to be played are upcoming or not, interim coaches are a "thing" in the current circumstances that NCC finds itself. It's VERY interesting that they did not do that/consider doing that this time.

And ya, let's bring in some guy with head coaching experience. No matter that he's had a losing record in a conference nowhere near as tough as the CCIW. No matter that several of his recruits are guys no or few CCIW coaches had near the top of their wish lists. No matter the personality of the guy. No matter he'll alienate as many people as he will make friends of the program. No matter that he's not a NCC guy. No matter because he's been a head coach and that's all that matters.

Vince has already done his "student teaching" as you put it. He's been doing it for 11 years. Time for a promotion.

In coaching, you learn by doing.  There are plenty of leagues were you can learn to be a HC at the D3 level... CCIW ain't it.

* And yes, I know a guy with head coaching experience that I think would do great job. I'm just not confident he'll get the job if Vince doesn't. And while he would be a fine choice, HE SAID VINCE SHOULD GET THE JOB. Case closed!

You don't quite understand the game of "politics" and perception when it comes to the coaching carousel.  The answer your coaching friend gave you is the ONLY answer that any coach in his position would give you.  There's a joke that coaches like to tell: "Did you know there are 3 forms of communication in this world?: 1) Telephone 2) Telefax and 3) Tell-a-Coach". Word spreads very fast re: job searches; candidates; and comments from/about those two things.

Lastly, if you know, please tell us who the person is that is in charge of this hire. And if you are "dubious of the decision making ability" of this person why do you think he/she is in charge? 

Well the AD is in "charge" of the search (although, if previous circumstances still exist, the choice is not entirely his).  Just like players have a scouting report (i.e. poor ball handler/force him left), so too do AD's.  Some just don't have a feel for hiring/knowing a good coach of a sport when they see one... basketball could be it for this one.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

Is Coach Rose committed to a lifetime in central Illinois?

If a trend develops of hiring young, then perhaps CCIW gigs are stepping stones as opposed to destinations.

On the theme of not having experience prior to being hired, Ron Rose had been a high school head coach, but had no such college experience prior to being hired by IWU. And, even those of us whose favorite color is not green would have to say he has done pretty darn well for himself.

Until VERY recently, IWU did not offer undergraduate degrees that included Education (whether Elementary, HS, or any specialty) as a major.  There was a huge period of time where there were no teachers graduating from IWU, none.  There was not a very large pool of IWU alums that were in the coaching business to choose from.  Ron Rose was a 1988 Business Admin. and Math major who went to work at State Farm as an actuarial assistant (he was a HS head coach with prior D1 and NAIA college experience). John Baines was a Math major at IWU.  The vast majority of basketball players at IWU thru the last couple of decades have been Business Admin/Marketing/Math/Accounting/Pre-Professional type majors - not the typical course of study for aspiring coaches (college or otherwise).

Denny Bridges was a "search committee" of one.  He was ONLY going to hire a former IWU player for his job when he retired.  I don't know that any other IWU alumni had any head coaching experience other than Rose.  The only other potential players would have been way too young - David Kunka, Mark Edmundson, etc.

[sac]

Coaching searches aren't a one size fits all thing.   Institutions, particularly private ones, will do searches how they see fit.  What lands you a position at one school might not be desired at another.  They will do what they want on their own timeline. 

My favorite will always be Olivet several years ago now announcing their 4 finalists for their men's head basketball coaching position in a nice tidy press release with profiles of each candidate and then hiring someone outside that press release a week or two later.