MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

In real time, I thought it was a blocking foul and not a flop.  There was contact, and from my POV, odds are not good that the defender is going to get a charging call at that point on the court as the offensive player wasn't really driving to the basket.

And calling that while swallowing the whistle (to the Cardinals' benefit) on the final shot seems... inconsistent.  But no complaints here.

Well, one complaint.  This should not have been a one possession game at the end.

As a football guy I am well aware of how much force it requires to knock someone flat on their backs. In basketball, I am always amazed at how little contact so often results in an obliterating knockdown of a defender. FWIW, soccer is much worse. SMH.

And, as an atomic physicist I am well aware that it takes much less force to effect an obliterating knockdown of a 170 pound basketball guard than it does to successfully knockdown a 320 pound football nose tackle in an obliterating manner.
And as this particular study involved a basketball play, we indeed have a situation where it's entirely understandable that the amount of force that was applied to the defender's body was certainly enough to send him reeling, obliteratingly or not. Additionally, we must consider that unlike football where contact may be initiated after only a step or two, the collision in this particular case occurred after the offensive player was able to build speed and force over at least half the length of the basketball court before coming in contact with the defensive player. With that degree of speed and force being brought forth, and introduced into the equation it's not surprising that what might have appeared to be minimal contact resulted in the above referenced obliterating knockdown.   

Ok, last comment from me....the NCC player (like most basketball players) are taught to fall down to absorb the contact. The contact on this play was not enough to send him flying backwards flat on his back. It was an acting job....not one worthy of a flop call IMO and certainly one that is seen multiple times in almost any game, but it was an acting job. By the way, 320lb nose tackles don't really ever get knocked down. They are usually the hammer, not the nail.

This is still the big question from this officiating change: do they want basketball players to stop selling charges like this?  It's been taught this way for decades - you won't get a call if you don't fall down.  At some point the officiating guidelines even stated that a defender stepping backwards was giving up position and couldn't take a charge.

As far as I've seen, there's been no clarity to the public on this.  Maybe the officials have been told how to call it, but it's definitely up in the air and really is a huge change for how the game is taught, if true.

[Gregory Sager]

I've only watched three or four of their games, but there's no question in my mind that NPU is a legitimate top 2 or 3 league contender and I am glad to see it.  The level of talent is obvious to any observer that can run a team out of the gym if they get on a roll on an opponent not sufficiently prepared.  As I believe others have observed, they can sometimes get a little over stretched and lose some discipline.  But that is simply a by-product of their style.  It's a little reminiscent of the Juwan Henry/Jordan Robinson teams to some extent.  Speed/skill making up for lack of size.

This team's actually quite a bit bigger than the North Park team that shared the CCIW title in 2016-17. Those Vikings had three starters who were under six feet tall (Juwan Henry, T.J. Cobbs, and Colin Lake, with Lake being the league's smallest player at 5'7, 145), plus Jordan Robinson (listed at 6'3, which is overly generous) and 6'4, 205 "center" Michael Hutchinson. The only player on the team who had any sort of big-man size was backup center Joe Biko at 6'8, 225.

This season's Vikings have two legit big men in Jordan Boyd (6'7, 215) and Karl Polk, Jr. (6'6, 220), plus a solid four in Adam Bulwa (6'5, 205). The perimeter players all have length as well; Marquise Jackson and Shamar Pumphrey are the shortest guys in the rotation, and they're both a genuine 6'0. Kolden Vanlandingham, Lance Nelson, Quillin Dixon, and Davante Robinson are all in the 6'1 -to-6'2 range, Jalen Boyd is 6'4, and Kenton Lei is 6'5. In other words, North Park's basically an average-sized team by 2022-23 CCIW standards. I don't know if this year's Vikings can match the pure end-to-end speed of the Henry/Cobbs/Lake triumvirate, but they're close enough for observers to be taken aback at just how fast they are for D3 players their size.

As a new coach coming in to give a very positive vision for his program, it's hard not to root for Sean Smith - I certainly am.

Sean's an easy guy to root for. And, especially in light of the flurry of disparaging posts about his being an underqualified hire (and about the low quality of NPU's candidate pool in general) back in mid-April on CCIW Chat, it's easy to view him as an underdog who is making good. His early success is already beginning to vindicate him as someone worthy of running a CCIW men's basketball program. Of course, we don't yet know how the rest of the season will play out, and a lot of his final grade will depend upon whether or not he can draw freshman recruits who both fit his vision for the program and who fill the bill as CCIW-quality basketball players. (Lance Nelson is already proving his worth off the bench for NPU, but one freshman does not a full recruiting class make.) But, ten games in, Sean's not only looking like The Right Guy with capital T, R, and G, he's also looking like a good addition to a league that has always prided itself on having a great stable of successful and respected men's basketball head coaches.

  But I'll have the strength of character to resist it by Jan 4 . . .

Understandable.

I think that that showdown in King Arena a week from today is going to be a fascinating basketball experience. For all of the praise being heaped upon the Vikings, and in spite of the fact that NPU and Carthage are the teams atop the standings as we stick a new calendar on the wall, nevertheless, Wheaton is currently the team to beat in this league.

[Gregory Sager]

Augustana had an impressive but ultimately frustrating evening entertaining #12 UW-LaCrosse at Carver, losing by a score of 73-70. Except for a 22-second stretch followed shortly thereafter by a 29-second stretch in which they trailed by seven both times, the Doggies stayed within two possessions of UWL for the last 23 minutes of the game without ever tying it up or taking the lead. Anthony Cooper scored 19 to lead the way for Augustana (3-9), while Matt Hawkins scored 15 and Evan Ambrose added 11. Dan Carr was pretty invisible, scoring only six points while making one measly field goal, but he did lead Augie in rebounds with seven.

At the hangar in Napervegas, North Central never pulled away from lowly Edgewood, but still had a sufficient cushion to pull out an 80-71 victory without giving any of the home fans serious heart palpitations. The Cardinals (7-5) got almost half of their points from the Helwig brothers (Matt with 26, Ethan with 13), and Mitch Lewis contributed a 15 and 13 performance to the NCC side of the ledger.

[kiko]

Kiko, no big deal, IWU70 also waited until December 17th to determine if the NCC football team was good enough to win a national championship. 

So what you're telling me is that this is most likely Norm's burner account.

Soooooo many things make sense now. 

[lmitzel]

At the hangar in Napervegas, North Central never pulled away from lowly Edgewood, but still had a sufficient cushion to pull out an 80-71 victory without giving any of the home fans serious heart palpitations. The Cardinals (7-5) got almost half of their points from the Helwig brothers (Matt with 26, Ethan with 13), and Mitch Lewis contributed a 15 and 13 performance to the NCC side of the ledger.

I feel weird calling a nine point win closer than what the score suggested, but it really was. In a game with 11 ties and 8 lead changes, it took until about the eight minute mark in the game for the Cardinals to take the lead for good, and even the Cardinals got a couple late baskets that pushed a two score game to the final margin.

This was the first time I got to see Mitch Lewis play... wow.

[GoPerry]

I think that that showdown in King Arena a week from today is going to be a fascinating basketball experience. For all of the praise being heaped upon the Vikings, and in spite of the fact that NPU and Carthage are the teams atop the standings as we stick a new calendar on the wall, nevertheless, Wheaton is currently the team to beat in this league.

Unfortunately the game will be held prior to students getting back to campus.  So it won't have the same energy level a game of this early-season significance would normally have.  Not sure if that favors the Thunder or the Vikes to be honest.  I'm sure Coach Schauer would rather have the Ryken Rowdies in full force.

[iwu70]

Yes, IWU games in Oregon cancelled.  Too bad.

'70

[iwu70]

USee and Kiko, I have no idea what you guys are talking about.  I post nothing on the football site and said nothing about NCC football and their championship prospects.  They are of course a worthy champion.  Are you guys smoking something?  I only follow and post on men's and women's CCIW basketball.   But I guess you guys can just create faux snark all you wish, for fun?   Bizarre.

IWU games in Oregon are cancelled.  Haven't heard anything on replacement games, re-scheduling.  Would be pretty tough at this stage, seems to me. 

'70
   

[Next Man Up]

In real time, I thought it was a blocking foul and not a flop.  There was contact, and from my POV, odds are not good that the defender is going to get a charging call at that point on the court as the offensive player wasn't really driving to the basket.

And calling that while swallowing the whistle (to the Cardinals' benefit) on the final shot seems... inconsistent.  But no complaints here.

Well, one complaint.  This should not have been a one possession game at the end.

As a football guy I am well aware of how much force it requires to knock someone flat on their backs. In basketball, I am always amazed at how little contact so often results in an obliterating knockdown of a defender. FWIW, soccer is much worse. SMH.

And, as an atomic physicist I am well aware that it takes much less force to effect an obliterating knockdown of a 170 pound basketball guard than it does to successfully knockdown a 320 pound football nose tackle in an obliterating manner.
And as this particular study involved a basketball play, we indeed have a situation where it's entirely understandable that the amount of force that was applied to the defender's body was certainly enough to send him reeling, obliteratingly or not. Additionally, we must consider that unlike football where contact may be initiated after only a step or two, the collision in this particular case occurred after the offensive player was able to build speed and force over at least half the length of the basketball court before coming in contact with the defensive player. With that degree of speed and force being brought forth, and introduced into the equation it's not surprising that what might have appeared to be minimal contact resulted in the above referenced obliterating knockdown.   

Ok, last comment from me....the NCC player (like most basketball players) are taught to fall down to absorb the contact. The contact on this play was not enough to send him flying backwards flat on his back. It was an acting job....not one worthy of a flop call IMO and certainly one that is seen multiple times in almost any game, but it was an acting job. By the way, 320lb nose tackles don't really ever get knocked down. They are usually the hammer, not the nail.

In a poll run on Twitter in which 380 votes were cast, this is how viewers of a video replay saw it;

No call:  38.2% (which is ridiculous given the amount of contact) 
Flop:      16.3%
Block:     16.1%
Charge:   29.5%

[Next Man Up]

At the hangar in Napervegas, North Central never pulled away from lowly Edgewood, but still had a sufficient cushion to pull out an 80-71 victory without giving any of the home fans serious heart palpitations. The Cardinals (7-5) got almost half of their points from the Helwig brothers (Matt with 26, Ethan with 13), and Mitch Lewis contributed a 15 and 13 performance to the NCC side of the ledger.

I feel weird calling a nine point win closer than what the score suggested, but it really was. In a game with 11 ties and 8 lead changes, it took until about the eight minute mark in the game for the Cardinals to take the lead for good, and even the Cardinals got a couple late baskets that pushed a two score game to the final margin.

This was the first time I got to see Mitch Lewis play... wow.

The Cardinals survived the onslaught of Edgewood's 6'7" 300 pound Jake "The Student Body" Schroeckenthaler who hit the Redbirds with a monstrous double-double of 29 points, and 14 rebounds.

NCC's Matt Lewis has had 78 minutes of PT since joining the team 5 games ago. In those 78 minutes (15.6 MPG) he has scored 69 points.   

[Next Man Up]

IDK why you are wondering if the Parkers are a threat to make the CCIW tournament considering 6 of the conference's 8 teams will make it and one of those eight teams is clearly going through a lost season.

Sacre bleu! One of the CCIW members has quit the conference or been kicked out?       Which one?

[Gregory Sager]

On my last trip to Paris I dined at a bistro where the chef was able to create faux snarque in a beurre blanc that was absolutely delicious, with a side of nicoise and topped off by a crème brûlée for dessert that was to die for.

[Gregory Sager]

NCC's Matt Lewis has had 78 minutes of PT since joining the team 5 games ago. In those 78 minutes (15.6 MPG) he has scored 69 points. 

Is the angry emoji because you feel that Anthony Figueroa isn't playing Lewis enough, or is it because bureaucratic red tape prevented Lewis from being with the team from the start of the season?

[RFMichigan]

The Cardinals survived the onslaught of Edgewood's 6'7" 300 pound Jake "The Student Body" Schroeckenthaler who hit the Redbirds with a monstrous double-double of 29 points, and 14 rebounds.

Apparently Schroeckenthaler was a good golfer in high school. I'll bet he can crush a drive.

When I watched him against Concordia earlier in the year I thought he was pretty nimble on his feet for such a big guy. My first thought: quality offensive tackle.

[iwu70]

IWU games in Oregon re-scheduled for January 23-24.   

'70