MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Started by Board Mod, February 28, 2005, 11:18:51 AM

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Gregory Sager

Congrats to Shamar Pumphrey for joining Marquise Jackson as the second North Park player this season to be named CCIW Student-Athlete of the Week! I'm excited to see Shamar get this recognition, as he is really beginning to assert himself as one of the CCIW's premier players. I still haven't figured out yet where his ceiling lies.

Incidentally, former North Park point guard Michael Osborne, who transferred to Aurora at the same time that Pumphrey transferred from Aurora to NPU (we've been calling that "the trade"), is no longer listed on the Aurora roster. His last game for the Spartans was back on January 5 against IIT. I remember watching the Benedictine @ Aurora game five days after that and wondering why Michael was missing. The Spartans have managed to go 3-1 without him thus far, but he's a big loss; he was leading Aurora in points, rebounds, and assists this season.

I hope he's doing OK. Michael's a nice young man, and I wished the best for him when he left North Park.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Wheaton moves up a spot from #8 to #7. The rest of the CCIW? Zilch. Not a single slot on a single ballot.

https://www.d3hoops.com/top25/index
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

iwu70

On the West coast, at the half:  IWU 36 Linfield 28.

Greg, I think NPU surely deserves some votes in the polls now -- at least in ORV. 

'70

iwu70

In a very competitive game, IWU over Linfield 76 to 68.  Linfield was within 4 at several points in the last few minutes.

Linfield:

Gibb 14
Bryan 11
10 players scoring

For IWU:
Heflen 17
Bazzell 14  4 treys
Mitchell 12 and 13
Sroka 11 and 6
Williams 11
Wlmsen 10

IWU finally at 44% from the arc, making 12 threes.   Winning the rebounding line 39 to 27. 

A much-needed win.

George Fox tomorrow at 4:30 PST, so 6:30 p.m. in the Midwest.

We'll take it.

IWU'70

markerickson

"Power conferences?"  Whoa, Nelly.  Wouldn't that be an ad hominem in the DIII context?
Once a metalhead, always a metalhead.  Matthew 5:13.

WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2023, 04:03:54 PM
This is particularly gratifying, as I'm certain that a lot of people unfamiliar with NPU's style of play assume that it's selfish and sloppy ... when in fact, as this ranking demonstrates, it's the exact opposite on both counts.

I am not sure why anyone would think this.

I do agree though, the turnaround have been nothing short of incredible.  And I still remember thinking "that guy?" when you first mentioned the hire here.

Quote from: markerickson on January 24, 2023, 09:22:59 AM
"Power conferences?"  Whoa, Nelly.  Wouldn't that be an ad hominem in the DIII context?

I am not sure why anyone would think this either.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: WUPHF on January 24, 2023, 09:39:14 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 23, 2023, 04:03:54 PM
This is particularly gratifying, as I'm certain that a lot of people unfamiliar with NPU's style of play assume that it's selfish and sloppy ... when in fact, as this ranking demonstrates, it's the exact opposite on both counts.

I am not sure why anyone would think this.

Since my broadcasting perch is right next to where opposing fans sit in the crackerbox, I overhear conversations, particularly before a game starts. And there have been a few times this season when I've overheard the words "street ball" or "playground ball" spoken in that section. While I don't always overhear the context, I'm pretty sure that it's being said about NPU (none of the visiting teams have played any style that's out of the norm for a midwestern D3 college basketball team), and I think I can take some guesses as to why.

Part of it is context -- a team loaded with brand-new transfers amplifies the stigma consistently attached to transfers, especially by older fans who may be less aware of the ubiquity of transfer student-athletes nowadays, as being out-for-themselves malcontents. And, as much as I try to avoid this potential third rail of conversation, I have to say that I suspect some people who subscribe to crude racial stereotypes that associate a disorganized, individual-oriented style of ball with teams that have the racial makeup of the Vikings will think that they're putting two and two together without having actually watched the Vikings play.

And part of it is performance profile, typically somebody's secondhand or thirdhand assessment of the high-speed nature of the Vikings' style combined with a cursory glance at the stats on the printed game program that indicate that the Vikings are a high-scoring outfit. The assumptions typical of that performance profile are: a) the team moves so fast that it's liable to make more mistakes both with and without the ball than other teams make*; and b) they're only scoring so much because of excess possessions -- they prematurely pull the trigger on each possession either by shooting right away or driving right away, rather than running an offense that creates a more optimal shot.

The Vikings really aren't playing too fast at all. You don't get to be fifth in the nation in turnover margin if you're playing too fast. Sure, you're gonna make some mistakes at that speed, but you're used to playing at that speed and your opponent isn't (and your opponent may not even be capable of it), so your opponent is going to make a lot more mistakes than you do. As for possession time, the truth of the matter is that NPU does tend to shoot early in the shot clock -- but that's in large part due to the quickness of the Vikings leading to early open shots, and since the team is shooting .375 from downtown (with the three players who've launched two-thirds of NPU's trey attempts this season, Kolden Vanlandingham, Jalen Boyd, and Shamar Pumphrey, shooting .398 between them) that's acceptable. And a big part of what North Park does offensively is drive-and-kick; run five-out motion and/or circulate the ball around the perimeter until you get a mismatch or a recovering defender, penetrate using your quickness to get into the paint, and if the help defense collapses on you, kick the ball out to an open shooter or find the exposed man underneath the basket or cutting to it on the baseline. It's a recipe that's given the Vikings the third-highest assist total in the league thus far this season.

Look at the thumbnail accompanying the story of Pumphrey winning the POW on the CCIW site's men's basketball page. It's a picture of an airborne penetrating Pumphrey getting deep into the Carroll offense, thus drawing in Pios center Jacob Naber as a help defender, and dishing it off to (not seen in the picture) an open Jordan Boyd for an easy layup. It perfectly sums up the way the Vikings play -- aggressive, willing to take open shots at the first opportunity, but always looking out for the open teammate who has an even better look at the basket.

(*Mark Erickson related an amusing anecdote to me about a North Park alumnus friend of ours who used to be a regular crackerbox attender back in the '80s but who has seldom seen the Vikings since then. He was present for the Carroll game, and early on he was yelling, "Slow down! Slow down!" at the Vikings, not realizing that slowing down is the last thing that their coach wants them to do.)

Quote from: WUPHF on January 24, 2023, 09:39:14 AM
I do agree though, the turnaround have been nothing short of incredible.  And I still remember thinking "that guy?" when you first mentioned the hire here.

Honestly, I thought the same thing. But I also knew that I had to keep an open mind about Sean, largely because I trust John Born's judgment.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Back in mid-December when North Park was getting votes in the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll, I mentioned here that the primary national advocate and vote-provider for the Vikings was the unofficial leader of the Illinois Wesleyan fanbase, Bob Quillman. Here in mid-January, an even bigger oddity (particularly in light of tomorrow night's showdown at Foster & Kedzie) is the fact that Wheaton head coach Mike Schauer is now North Park's primary advocate to a D3 World that is either not convinced that the Vikings are a team worthy of national consideration or which simply doesn't have NPU on their radar at all.

Check out this clip from Dave McHugh's Hoopsville interview with Mike last Thursday. The relevant section where Mike and Dave discuss North Park is from about the 28:00 mark to about 33:30. Mike not only says repeatedly to a skeptical D-Mac that the Vikings are really good, he suggests that if they had "Illinois Wesleyan" on the front of their jerseys rather than "North Park", people from other parts of the country would be looking at them differently.

What I like about this clip is that this isn't a case of Mike doing a Lou Holtz routine about an upcoming opponent, or boosting his league in order to make his own team look even better. If nothing else, Mike's a straight shooter. He says what he thinks, and he doesn't have an ulterior motive. It's one of the things that I respect the most about him.

Of course, he knows that, buttering him up aside, I want his team to be staring morosely at their shoelaces as the final seconds tick off the clock tomorrow night. ;)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

kiko

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2023, 01:32:54 PM
Mike not only says repeatedly to a skeptical D-Mac that the Vikings are really good, he suggests that if they had "Illinois Wesleyan" on the front of their jerseys rather than "North Park", people from other parts of the country would be looking at them differently.

He's not wrong about this.

The main silver lining in how easily folks overlook the Vikings this year is that it will be easy for any non-CCIW teams they might play going forward -- and while there is work to be done before that happens, I personally expect this number will be larger than zero -- to underestimate them.  That North Park is currently receiving no votes in the poll is as glaring of a miss as all of the challenges this board has spotlighted with Massey this year.  It ain't just the algorithm that is missing the boat on North Park.

WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2023, 12:03:16 PM
I overhear conversations, particularly before a game starts. And there have been a few times this season when I've overheard the words "street ball" or "playground ball" spoken in that section. While I don't always overhear the context, I'm pretty sure that it's being said about NPU (none of the visiting teams have played any style that's out of the norm for a midwestern D3 college basketball team), and I think I can take some guesses as to why.

Thanks Greg! Interesting.

WUPHF

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2023, 01:32:54 PM
Check out this clip from Dave McHugh's Hoopsville interview with Mike last Thursday. The relevant section where Mike and Dave discuss North Park is from about the 28:00 mark to about 33:30. Mike not only says repeatedly to a skeptical D-Mac that the Vikings are really good, he suggests that if they had "Illinois Wesleyan" on the front of their jerseys rather than "North Park", people from other parts of the country would be looking at them differently.

I had not listened to this part of Hoopsville, but that is interesting and certainly true.  I heard reference to the eye test elsewhere on the show.  I have only watched parts of two or three North Park games, but clearly they needed to be getting more attention for a while.

Gregory Sager

Yesterday we lost not only someone who had employment ties to North Park, Wheaton, and Millikin (he was, among other things, the women's basketball and men's tennis head coach at North Park and was the very first head coach that the Vikings men's soccer program ever had as it transitioned from club to varsity sport, and the AD at Millikin), but who was a contributor to this board for many years, Joe Hakes:

https://athletics.northpark.edu/news/2023/1/24/athletic-department-remembering-coach-joe-hakes.aspx

Peace to his memory.

"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

blue_jays

Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 24, 2023, 02:59:04 PM
Yesterday we lost not only someone who had employment ties to North Park, Wheaton, and Millikin (he was, among other things, the women's basketball and men's tennis head coach at North Park and was the very first head coach that the Vikings men's soccer program ever had as it transitioned from club to varsity sport, and the AD at Millikin), but who was a contributor to this board for many years, Joe Hakes:

https://athletics.northpark.edu/news/2023/1/24/athletic-department-remembering-coach-joe-hakes.aspx

Peace to his memory.

Very sad to hear that news. I always enjoyed my interactions with Joe, which mostly occurred near/on the soccer pitch. He will definitely be missed.

iwu70

Sorry to hear about Joe Hakes.  Condolences to his family and friends.   

'70

iwu70

On the West coast, a rather ragged affair with both teams lolling about the three point line, shooting tons of them.

IWU 36  George Fox 29 -- at the half.

Nothing really special about this game so far.   

'70