MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

Green Beer · March 06, 2025, 12:24:24 PM

I see what you're saying. If a team's racking up 130 a game, someone's scoring those points and stuffing the stat sheet.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · March 06, 2025, 12:37:44 PM

You're sacrificing minutes, but not usually production. Good shooters get shots in The System.

lmitzel · March 06, 2025, 12:50:32 PM

Going back to when the NCC women ran it, yeah, your best players will get more shifts and get theirs still even with fewer minutes than a non-System team.

I always looked at it as a thing where if the talent level of the two teams is relatively even, the style of play could be a deciding factor. But if the team playing someone running The System is more talented, you get things like the Wheaton result over Grinnell or Matt Cappelletti putting up 47 and Connor Raridon recording NCC's only triple-double against Greenville during the 2019-20 campaign.

I had to go back and look it up, but I remembered Augie got Greenville in the first round one year. They won, but I'd remembered that it wasn't a cakewalk by any stretch (and when I looked at the box score... holy crap, Augie got a scare in that game).

bopol · March 06, 2025, 02:00:28 PM

Quote from: blue_jays on March 06, 2025, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: bopol on March 05, 2025, 09:07:16 PMThe trouble with the system is that it doesn't work against good teams. They won't panic, they have players that can bring it up the court in pressure and can make good passes and find the layup. Hence, Grinnell will be competitive in their conference and against weaker competition, but can't get over the top. It's a path to take a bad team to above average - a load of 17-8 seasons...but it won't make a Top 25 team.

I guess the coach is slowing it down a bit...this ain't the Grinnell you've seen in the past.

I remember a 2009 Grinnell game versus Wheaton. The Thunder won 130-109 and set a school single-game record with an 80% field goal percentage (52 of 65). Tim McCrary scored 32 points on 13-of-15 shooting, Kent Raymond scored 31 points on 10-for-13 shooting, and even the offensively-challenged Jake Carwell scored a career-high 25 points on 12-for-14 shooting.

Yeah, sometimes the best part of the "System" games is the opposing box score. Like having a role player suddenly has 30 points on 15 for 16 shooting.

GusD · March 07, 2025, 12:09:25 AM

I think the major problem system teams usually face is that they seem to give up monumental numbers of open layups. Unless they shoot an astronomical percentage on their threes, the gimme layups on the other end often quickly overtake the number of points scored on threes by the system team. System teams always shoot quickly. It's part of the system doctrine. This means possible offensive rebounders are seldom yet on scene under the basket. When the shot is launched a defender takes off. The defender who rebounds then fires a deep pass to the flyer who has an uncontested layup or dunk.

GusD · March 07, 2025, 12:22:52 AM

Recruiting news

NCC has received a commitment from 5'10" PG Nasir Sears of Joliet West HS. Sears, who has speed to burn, is known for pinpoint passes off the dribble. Overall, he has been referred to as a clone of Terrance Moncrief, the Cardinals All-Conference PG who also came to Naperville from Joliet West.

bopol · March 07, 2025, 08:25:00 AM

Quote from: GusD on March 07, 2025, 12:09:25 AMI think the major problem system teams usually face is that they seem to give up monumental numbers of open layups. Unless they shoot an astronomical percentage on their threes, the gimme layups on the other end often quickly overtake the number of points scored on threes by the system team. System teams always shoot quickly. It's part of the system doctrine. This means possible offensive rebounders are seldom yet on scene under the basket. When the shot is launched a defender takes off. The defender who rebounds then fires a deep pass to the flyer who has an uncontested layup or dunk.

I remember the game I saw at Carthage in 2006 that Grinnell would press, but even when Carthage beat the press, they kept trying to double team the guard with the ball. Well, someone's open and it turned into a lot of open layups. And, in the end, a so-so Carthage team (10-15 that year) beat Grinnell 135-125.

I think Arsenault Jr is tweeking his dad's system. I haven't seen a game with him at coach, but the scores do seem lower.

GU1999 · March 07, 2025, 08:54:44 AM

Two of the five System principals are really hard against top talent.

Turnovers - need 33+. Against longer, more athletic and poised guards with top teams, this is problematic for lesser level system teams.

Offensive Rebound 33% of your misses. Even with the best "wedging in" strategy trained dailey, and recruiting longer and more athletic "bigs" (GUs Comeaux brothers) to gather long misses, the higher seeded teams will have larger bodies who are athletic. They will be able to collect a great majority of the longer misses around the rim.

GUs scare of Augie was real. +17 in first half. Double digits at half. Had the lead with less than 10. Shout out to Johari Dix and the squad. Dix was a menace but got his 5th half way through the 2nd period.

That said, I would posit that the system has been brilliant for GU. 1995-2018 - 0 ncaa tournaments. Since 2. GU is thriving.

Enrollment/retention/fundraising/etc... are all up and in some respects up big. The place looks great and the vibe is amazing.

It should be noted that a SLIAC team has never won a tournament game. So, I may characterize a loss less like like "a system team couldn't win in the NCAAs", and more like like a "#16 seeded system team couldn't win in the ncaas."

mwunder · March 07, 2025, 03:54:22 PM

Good to see that the NCAA didn't go to the same format (ESPN+) they had for watching all of the D3 Football playoffs.

Captain_Joe08 · March 07, 2025, 06:09:13 PM

St. Norbert up 62-37 on Carthage at half....Well then.

Captain_Joe08 · March 07, 2025, 07:02:00 PM

Carthage has whittled the deficit to 7 (80-73) but only 2:48 left in the game.

Captain_Joe08 · March 07, 2025, 07:18:01 PM

St. Norbert holds on 92-89. Carthage got it down to one with 6 seconds left but SNC sank both FT's and got a defensive stop to run out the clock.

Stertorous Thunder · March 07, 2025, 08:01:34 PM

Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2025, 07:18:01 PMSt. Norbert holds on 92-89. Carthage got it down to one with 6 seconds left but SNC sank both FT's and got a defensive stop to run out the clock.

St. Norbert was unstoppable in the first half. Carthage fell short of an absolutely epic comeback by an unlucky break or two. Another great crop of CCIW seniors can hold their heads high on what they accomplished this year.

Stertorous Thunder · March 07, 2025, 08:14:52 PM

Quote from: Captain_Joe08 on March 07, 2025, 06:09:13 PMSt. Norbert up 62-37 on Carthage at half....Well then.

Good thing you stuck around for the second half, wasn't it? So close.

bopol · March 07, 2025, 09:17:55 PM

Carthage was down 31 points at one point and got it within one. St. Norbert shot 77% from the field including 78% from 3 in the first half. They were hitting everything. Honestly, I thought Carthage could come back because there was no way that SNU could keep shooting like that. Of course, Carthage did, but 31 is too big a hill and a couple of breaks would have made a difference. Great season and glad to see Carthage back in the dance. Next year could be really good too. Steve and the men should be proud of this season, but realize there is unfinished business.