MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Cardsfan4life]

Call me crazy but I think the reason Simmons didn't get the start v.s. Carthage is because he showed up late to shoot around.  It's a good job by Coach Raridon by showing his kids to be disciplined.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I can summarize this whole Bosko nonsense in two words:  Joe Paterno.  Anyone notice who the d1 COY was this year?  (Hint, his nickname is JoPa.)  And at least THOSE zealots had the plausible rationale that at his age, maybe he really HAD lost it - I don't know Bosko's age, but I'm guessing he could be Paterno's son!

Bosko was in North Park's class of '73, so I think he's 53 years old. Perhaps 54.

Well, then.  In many areas of the country he could be JoPa's GRANDson!

[Gregory Sager]

Call me crazy but I think the reason Simmons didn't get the start v.s. Carthage is because he showed up late to shoot around.  It's a good job by Coach Raridon by showing his kids to be disciplined.

I figured that it was something like that when I looked at the box score and saw that Simmons didn't start. If that is indeed the reason behind Simmons' not starting, I join you in extending kudos to Raridon for enforcing team discipline.

[devildog29]

I don't understand the Bosko bashing by some on here.  As many others have already mentioned, the man has five rings.  He had Carthage in the Final Four just a few years ago, and a couple weeks ago we were all talking about what a great coach he is getting his team to give IWU all they could want.  Now, two weeks later, he's packing it in.  If these detractors have their way and run Bosko out, I'm sure there's 4 or 5 schools in the CCIW that would gladly take him as their coach (assuming Scott Trost and Bill Harris are pretty much set at their schools).  

[carthageking]

Wow Titan Q great post.  Let's just take away for a second 3 names, Weirtel, Garnes, and McDaniel.
The record without them:
12-13  (96-97)
17-8 (97-98)
14-11 (98-99)
15-10 (03-04)
12-13 (04-05)
4-11 (05-06)

Total:
74-66  54%

Players like McDaniel and Weirtel and Garnes come along once in a career let alone all at once.  Bosko was lucky to land those guys and how they didn't end up at the division one level is beyond me.  His record proves my statements earlier about a lack of ability to win without outstanding talent.  The coach from Elmhurst is proving my statement more and more true every game they win.   After talking to a player last night Bosko's remarks in the post game huddle were, "You guys aren't good enough to win, I've got to go find something better next year to be successful."  Enough said.  What type of coach tells his kids that? How about something along the line of doing something this season to right the ship and maybe accomplish something.  With the way the league is going if Carthage were to rattle off 8 or 9 straight they could sneak into the conference tournament. It's a strech but possible.
As far as me remaining secretive about who I actually am, I'd be more than willing to meet any poster or any lurker for that matter anywhere they would like to discus this matter further.  My e-mail is posted on my profile and would have no problem discussing any of this with you or any basketball related topic.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

Carthageking,

To simplify matters: Bosko has 5 rings, how many do you have?

And if you think 'he was great, but he's lost it', I have just two words: Joe Paterno.  (At least the Paterno bashers had a 'plausible' argument that at his age, maybe Joe, this year's d1 COY, really had lost it.  Since Bosko is a generation younger [in some parts of the country, maybe TWO generations younger ], unless you can make a COMPELLING argument for burnout, may I suggest that you are stark-raving bonkers!  (On the other hand, as a fan of one of your competitors, YES!, drive out Bosko!!!)

You have at least arguably the best coach you have ever had, and at least possibly the best coach you will EVER have, and you want him tarred and feathered!

Tough crowd.

[BigPoppa]

As a Carthage alum, it hurts to see all the Bosko bashing going on. I happened to attend Carthage during the "lean years" in which a hoops victory was reason to tear apart the campus. We used to watch the games hoping for dunks, not victories.

Carthage fans have been spoiled the past few seasons. What's next??? Run out Augie Schmidt if they do not win the CCIW Baseball title?? How about getting rid of President Campbell if the school's library fines are not up to par???

[Redmen54]

I would think that Bosko would say that to light a fire under his team because they just got their butts handed to them at home. So basically he wanted to piss them off. Every team I was on, we would have responded to something like that, so maybe its not just Crazy Ol' Bosko, maybe it has something to do with the players too. Call me crazy but I dont think Bosko has any eligibilty left so he probably doesnt play in games too often.

[Elmhurst_Mom]

well gee carthage king......just what do you consider "talent?"....i don't know.....michael scoring 83 pts. in the last 4 games not enough for you as far as talent??  ilenfeldt, strzemp, ruch and maybe martin, the all american that he is scoring 55pts and playing the game that keeps everyone "abuzz" is what you're liking your sad story to......just stop.....leave bosko and elmhurst and every other target of your disgruntled existance alone....these guys are all working their butts off....geez...i'm all up for a great debate but i'll be darned if i'm going to watch this site while you tear great coaches and committed athletes apart from the "sidelines."   

[Gregory Sager]

I know that I said I'd stay out of the Bosko debate, but what Carthageking is posting is just flat-out wrong, and he needs to be called out on it.

Wow Titan Q great post.  Let's just take away for a second 3 names, Weirtel, Garnes, and McDaniel.
The record without them:

Cherry-pick results all you like. The fact of the matter is that every coach in this league has had seasons where his team has not performed up to par. Scott Trost had a .500 season in which his roster included Luke Kasten, Seth Hubbard, Laban Cross, Jim Lehan, John Camardella, Chris Silagi, and that whole gang. Elmhurst was picked to finish third in 2000 behind Ryan Knuppel, Nelson Grant, Eric Cole, and Tony Pippin. Instead, Mark Scherer's team finished in a last-place tie. The next season the coaches, in their infinite wisdom  , picked the 'jays to finish sixth. Instead, they won the school's first-ever CCIW title after a half-century of futility.

This is a tremendously unforgiving league. Even the best teams often have a hard time keeping their heads above water in the CCIW. Exhibit A just finished practice in Shirk Center a few hours ago. Take away the top three players from any championship team, and see how they'll fare.

Players like McDaniel and Weirtel and Garnes come along once in a career let alone all at once.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Mike Barach -- 1988 CCIW MOP, two-time All-American
Michael Starks -- 1987 CCIW MOP, two-time All-American
Dan Mulkerin -- 1987 All-CCIW first-team, 1988 All-CCIW second-team

Those of us who've been around long enough to have seen both the 1987 North Park national champions and the 2002 Carthage national third-place team can have a grand old time arguing over which team was better. But the fact of the matter is that Bosko has had a trio totally comparable to Wiertel, Garnes, and McDaniel all at the same time. I oughta know, because I saw all but three games the Park played that year, and I was holding the stepladder steady in Calvin's fieldhouse when Mulkerin climbed it to cut down the net on the last night of the season.

Bosko was lucky to land those guys and how they didn't end up at the division one level is beyond me.

Did it ever occur to you that he landed those guys because of his coaching reputation? Or did you just think that Jason Wiertel, Rob Garnes, and Antoine McDaniel fell out of the sky in some freakish hailstorm over Kenosha?

His record proves my statements earlier about a lack of ability to win without outstanding talent.

Again, your lack of ability to do all the research when you make your sweeping generalizations is your undoing. I've already addressed your fallacy that Bosko has never had another team as talented as his Carthage team from earlier in this decade. Now I'll address your fallacy that he can't win without outstanding talent by citing his other national championship team.

Four of North Park's national championship teams had absolutely top-drawer D3 talent, with a roster studded with D1-level players -- the threepeat teams of Michael Harper, Modzel Greer, and Michael Thomas, and the '87 team of Starks, Barach, and Mulkerin. The fifth team, however, the 1985 team, wasn't even close to that level in terms of pure talent. It had a genuine superstar in senior Justyne Monegain, the 1985 CCIW MOP. Monegain, a scarecrow who was 6'4" and weighed about 170 pounds soaking wet, was a small forward who was asked to play power forward. He did it well enough to score 2,000 points in his North Park career, but he certainly had to do it while giving up a lot of size to other CCIW fours. It had a great complementary star in PG Ernie Hubbard, the MVP of the '85 national tournament -- but Hubbard was a smallish 5'10" or so, and he was a new transfer that season from D2 SIU-Edwardsville. The third All-CCIW first-teamer was Lars Anderson, a gangly 6'7" center with freakishly long arms who was a turnover-and-fouling machine during his first season as a starter in '84.

The other two starters were off-guards, Adam Lazich and Johnny Kuehn (Kuehn replaced Terry Egan, a genuine small forward who broke his leg in midseason, in the starting lineup), both of whom were generously listed at 6'0". With three guards and an undersized PF, the Park put the smallest starting five in the league out onto the floor that year. What's more, the team had almost no bench. The only reserves who ever got into the game were backup PG Sonny Parker, backup forward Matt Schwarz, and a menacing 6'8", 250 center named Milorad "Mike" Sofrenovich whose basketball skills could've fit into a thimble.

Dennis Prikkel probably knows the particulars, but IIRC the coaches picked North Park to finish third or fourth that year. Thing is, that would've been one year that I might've gone along with the coaches in their annual poll. I certainly would've picked North Central to finish first, as the Cards had an amazing team that year, and I might've picked Illinois Wesleyan and/or Augie to finish ahead of the Park. The Vikings had what looked to be a pretty good team. They didn't have what looked to be a great one. I've seen plenty of CCIW teams before and since that I think had more talented lineups.

Nevertheless, the 1985 North Park Vikings won the CCIW title, and then they won the national championship. Their coach? Bosko Djurickovic.

"A lack of ability to win without outstanding talent"? The second banner from the right in the crackerbox proves you wrong.

I won't even get into the silliness that you're stating about the 2005-06 Elmhurst Bluejays winning without talent, since Elmhurst Mom basically handed you your hat with her 12:28 post and obviously does not need my help. 

[bluejaybacker1]

Elmhurst Mom- Thanks for saying what needed to be said to our friend from the North. Obviously we have Martin and he said that but after that no talent. 

I don't about you but last year our center I think his name is Nick Michael was third team all-conference. With post players like Simmons, Freeman, and Kalmatas last year I think that is saying something being named with those three to the all conference teams. Nick has also been player of the week twice, once last year, and oh yea last week! Then you got the two freshman Ruch and Strzemp and I don't have to say much for them, except they have done an exceptional job this year. Strzemp is avg. 9 pts per game in conference and 5 brds. These three will be a real presence next year in the league down low. As for our guard play, you have Ihlenfeldt who is avg. 8 pts a game in conference play. And our point guard which was a real question this year in the beginning but Brian Lee has really stepped up to provide a scoring threat and someone who can take care of the ball and set up our offense. Oh we have Dave Gershenzon who is hurt right now who avg. 15 points a game last year in conference, but has been hurt most of the season.

I know there is not any talent on this team with the exception of Chris Martin. 

[joehakes]

Greg's analysis of the '85 championship team is spot on.  That was a true team that played so well together and didn't have a lot of depth.  How many coaches can say that they won it all in their first year as a head coach?  That year was so much fun to be around.

I saw that team in practice almost every day and saw how hard they worked and how prepared they were each time out on the floor.  There are a thousand active coaches who would have loved to have that year.

[advoice]

Why is North Central better than Augie?
1. Post play. NC gets consistent offensive production in the post from a multitude of players. Rairdon's players have bought into and flourished in the transition quick hitters and triangle type offense.

2. Turnovers. NC rarely turns it over. They make the easy pass and have great ball movement.

3. They have multiple perimeter options.

Defensively and rebounding I would say are fairly equal. Both teams play hard and have strong bodies.

This game will come down to game prep and who hits shots. Augie has to do something to take NC out of their offensive rythm. If NC is allowed to run offense they are very efficient.

I have been skeptical of Rairdon to this point mostly because he worked for a man at a previous institution that is not very well respected in the athletic world. After seeing his team play, this man can coach.

Augie can win, but if both teams play their best, NC wins.

[advoice]

Let's be clear about how many rings Bosko has. He has TWO as a HEAD COACH. Let's not be giving him too much credit as an assistant for the 78-80 championships. McCarrell won those championships, McCarrell recruited those kids. If I remember correctly, Bosko was the baseball coach at NP during those times (I think a fairly good one).

Give him a lot of credit for the 87 squad and to a lesser extent the 85 squad (McCarrell's recruits but Bosko must have coached the hell out of them). Give him a little credit for the three as an assistant. But DO NOT give him credit for five total. Even the Carthage web site only claims two of the championships in their head coach profile.

Incidently, North Park may want to consider being more complete on their web page. I had to go to the Carthage site to double check my information on the NP championship teams.

Two is still a great accomplishment and I take my hat off to the man but I stick by my statement that Bosko is the latest Steve Yount.

Elmhust mom, I think the bluejays are a talented bunch.

[rknuppel]

It's simple.  When teams struggle, fans look for someone to blame.  A lot of times, it goes directly onto the coach.  As a former player in the league, I have a lot of respect for Carthage and Bosko.  Just because they are having a "down" year, doesn't mean Bosko has suddenly turned into a bad coach.  Is Phil Jackson a bad coach now just because they sit in 3rd place in a division they used to dominate?  I don't think so.  We all know how hard it is to win in this league.  It sounds like Carthage has taken a few tough losses (by 1, 3 and 5).  If they win a couple of those games I don't think we're having this discussion now.  A few games don't make a coach.

I will agree that Mark Scherer does an unbelievable job at Elmhurst year in and year out with the team he is working with.  But to say they have little talent this year is just wrong!  Those coaches do a great job recruiting some of the top players in the area and are probably laughing at the "no talent" discussion as we speak.

Looking forward to going back to Elmhurst for our "alumni game" tomorrow night.  Could be ugly  Even more excited to watch the Wheaton @ Elmhurst matchup!  Hopefully Wheaton shuts it down a bit after a great road performance at IWU.  The Jays need to be ready to play!