MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[nochoresmartin11]

How could you ever question Martin's hustle or effort?  Isn't that why he's always labeled as a dirty player, because he plays extremely hard??  I don't see how anybody could say martin isn't a 1st-team all cciw player, when he is clearly an all-american.  He may have played two bad games, but you show me one player who hasn't had a bad game.  I'm pretty sure Amelianovich was non-existent at Elmhurst last week, but nobody is saying that he's not a first team player because he had a bad game.  When martin has the ball, the jays are in the best position possible, martin isn't the best shooter, but he is the best in the league in transition, and he's a great passer.  i don't feel you have any validity to your argument that martin lacks effort or hustle, and i'm sure there are a lot of people that would back that statement up.

[Mr. Ypsi]

ncm11,

If that was addressed to me, please note that I did NOT question Martin's hustle or effort.  Based on other posts I said IF his poor performances against Augie reflected more on him than on the Augie defense, he might end up penalized by the conference coaches due to the "Jon Stevens Rule".

I think he will be first-team all conference, and is a STRONG candidate for POY.  But if he doesn't make either, the above is my speculation on why.

Read more carefully before you post; it saves embarrassment later.  (Trust me, I know!! )

If that was addressed to some other post I missed, never mind!

[diehardfan]

CM should be placed in Jon Stevens' category (POY talent; coaches knocking him off even first team due to sloth/inconsistency).  Please note the 'IF'.  I will be extremely surprised if Chris Martin is not first team all-conference (and mildly surprised if he if not POY), but if he isn't, it is (probably) the Jon Stevens' provision!

I can get a FAIRLY good picture of the CCIW from hundreds of miles away from the cumulative posts, but things like the consistency of Chris Martin's effort are not always clear!

Cabs, seriously, slothful??? For someone who has seen Chris play no times, and Jon Steven once, when he scored 27 pts on 11-18 shooting against a Calvin team who would later go on to the final four, let me state that this is rude, offensive, and totally out of line.

Both guys have suffered from major illnesses during the course of their careers, which led to major surgeries during the summer. One had surgery on his heart only half a year ago, the other on his lungs. Chris has played with the flu several times in his career, including during the recent victory againsts the Titans. And think about it... half a year ago, he had just gotten out of the hospital, and it was doubtful that he would play again. Jon played an entire conference season and them some on an injured foot which could have any moment fracture worse and ended his career in addition to his lung problems.

If there is anything that's in common with the two players, it's that both are insanely talented, and used their talent, and passion for the sport, to do great things despite overwhelming barriers.

You may be able to predict results okay from 500 miles away okay, but don't you dare question the hearts of two young men that you know nothing about based on stat sheets and random posters who make a lot of brash statements and who know nothing about them personally.

I defend you more than anyone else on the boards to people who find your speculations (with out any effort to see the great basketball in Michigan that I would kill to be around), but you have stepped over the line, and then just continue to keep running in a place you have no business going. Please, please PLEASE stop. 

[Pat Coleman]

I can get a FAIRLY good picture of the CCIW from hundreds of miles away from the cumulative posts, but things like the consistency of Chris Martin's effort are not always clear!

If that was addressed to me, please note that I did NOT question Martin's hustle or effort.

You probably should have avoided saying anything altogether then, because that's what this sounds like.

[Pat Coleman]

great basketball in Michigan

Oh, no kidding. As much as I wouldn't want to work at, say, the Ann Arbor News as opposed to USA Today, being an hour from Albion and two and a half to three hours from Calvin and Hope would be great to see on a regular basis.

[augievike93]

Well... They've made the change to have a conference tourney.  Now maybe they'll just make the change and add two spots to the first team.  7 man first team.  Doubtful   

Would that be like having a First Team 6th man et al?

[Mr. Ypsi]

April,

If I ever read anything about Jon Steven having health problems, I totally have forgotten - all the word I got when I saw him is 'sometimes he shows up, sometimes he doesn't'.  That night he showed up long enough to show he had the talent to be a POY, and didn't show up enough to show why Harris sat him nearly half the game, and why he didn't make first (or even second) team all-conference.

I do recall now that Chris Martin's indecision on returning to Elmhurst was health-related.  If that ties in to his inconsistency, I certainly apologize.  No one had mentioned that as a factor, and I had forgotten.  Actually, that sounds too much like a wimpy non-apology apology.  I flat-out apologize to Chris Martin for making a post that sounded like I was questioning his effort.  That was NOT the intent of my post, but I understand how it could have been viewed that way.

What I MEANT to say was that Martin would probably be #2 on my POY ballot (if I had one!), second only to Harrigan of Augie, and second only because (for whatever reason) he didn't totally show up for the most crucial games.  And that IF he didn't make first-team all-conference (which I don't anticipate) it would be because (for whatever reason) he didn't show up for the most crucial games!

[diehardfan]

I doubt that Jon's heath problems were ever made fully public, and I certainly didn't feel appropriate posting about things Jon told me, without having been given specific permission to discus them publically. On the other hand, before his surgery, the type of cookies Jon got from me were chocolate chip, which are his favorite.

Do I know for sure that Chris's problems are health related? No, I have no idea. Were all of Jon's basketball woes health related? Doubtful, it's not like anyone is perfect.

But that's just the thing. You don't know what's behind the obvious things, like results and game stories. You can't even make the judgement based on impressions you got of them during games. All you can base things on, is what someone told you they thought these guys did... and that thirdhand knowledge, has vast obvious potential for being faulty for a host of reasons. Most posters don't have insidery knowledge. I certainly don't have a ton. Those that do have it, often don't want to post it, for obvious reasons.

A discussion of motivations for either of these players over these issues (or a discussion for one, and an all out character branding for the other) is just totally inappropriate.... to an even greater degree than such discussion already is in general.

[dansand]

Which begs the question - at this stage, with each team having three weeks left (who's first team).

Harrigan, AC
McAdams-Thornton, AC
Daukas, IW
Amelianovich, IW
Simmons, NC
Jefferies, CT
Martin, EC

at least two on that list of the top seven players in the league aren't going to make it.

MW

At this point , the odd men out would probably be Jeffery and McAdams-Thornton. I hate to admit it in Jay's case, 'cause he's so steady and was the best player on the floor in the biggest CCIW game so far this year (AC @ IWU). But Simmons and Harrigan have just been too good this year to not move up to first team. Harrigan, the last two games not withstanding, has got to be the frontrunner for POY at this point. If Augie ends up winning the league by a large margin, say 3 games or more. They may drop someone in favor of Jay (I know he was a first teamer last year, but I think his incumbency is a little more tenuous than Amelianovich's, Dauksas', or Martin's). Anyway, there's a long way to go and nothings decided yet so it's all speculation at this point. 

[dansand]

I defense of Coach G, he's always yelling something at someone, so it would probably be a bigger distraction for the FT shooter if he didn't yell instructions while they're shooting.

[79jaybird]

I was at the game and here are my takes on it:
1) Augustana deserves a lot of credit for hanging in there on the road and making the clutch plays when they had to.
2) Elmhurst just beat themselves up.  Missed layups, illadvised shots, at times looking indecisive, not the team that beat NC earlier this week.
3) Where were the current students?  As an Alum I am ashamed because you have a great team playing a great team in a pivotal ( at the time) game?  Shame to the Bluejays students, and no excuses  it is a Sunday afternoon so the homework can wait for a few hours in the middle of the day!
4) Officiating was o.k. I thought.  They did not decide the outcome and that's all you can ask.
Here is how I think the Tournament will assemble
1 Augie
2 Elmhurst
3 IWU
4 NC
Augie gets in and the CCIW gets a second team in.. and right now I don't know who that second team will be...that's a tough argument

[Johnny Augie]

To be fair, Coach G yells during his own player's free throws as well.  He's an equal opportunity yeller!!!

[Johnny Augie]

DP,

Lamar Simpson might not be known very well when looking at D3 hoops because he spends most of his time doing the big time D1 games.  On Saturday he was the ref at Dayton/Xavier.  I know that he has also done Big Ten, Big East and Conference USA games in the past as well.

He is a great official at the college level and one of the best at the high school level.  He always calls a good game and a fair game as well.  I've seen him do some Augie games in the past, so I think the CCIW is fortunate to get a good ref like Lamar once and awhile.

[augie22]

Johnny Augie,

Where do you find out information like that???  Sounds good though.  Can't beleive anyone would be saying things about the refs in the CCIW i have rarely seen a game won or lost on refs in that conference because they usually draw the best around.

On the issue of Martin not playing hard...i think his effort is great.  He simply lets the game come to him and it just looks easy for him.  There are players who are go go go go all the time and there are players who are smooth and allow the game come to them.  I will tell you what...when he put the kid from Augie on his rear end yesterday on that fast break in the first half i was like "WOW"! And then Martin kicked to the corner to go up 7 or so...nasty move.

[robberki]

Coach G is obviously a good coach, but the free throw yelling thing is bush league.