MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[True Basketball Fan]

"Enjoy the finish, folks...and make plans to get to that inaugural tournament.  There are a lot of years when the 4 teams that make it to Salem are not collectively as good as the teams that will be in Rock Island in a couple weeks."  -Titan Q  2-9-06

Well said TQ.  I couldn't agree more.

Let's pack the gym everybody, the teams definitely deserve that from us fans.  Come even if you are not a fan of any of the teams.  Just do what I do and root for good basketball to be played, and get excited about whatever team wins.

[Gregory Sager]

Let's see....

The teflon-coated-faultless-one doesn't know the difference between an African-American guard or a Caucasian guard (maybe its those thick blue and gold coated lensed glasses he wears), but I'm wrong for bringing it up.

So, If I have to eat crow, and the teflon-coated-faultless-one says I must, so make it stewed.

Let's review, Dennis, shall we? Click back to CCIW Chat's page 212. More specifically, post #3171 on February 6, 2006, time stamp 1:36:21 pm. Here are your exact words in that post:

The Viking effort could be summed up in the play of one freshman reserve, entering the game for the first time when the outcome was still in doubt, gave up a wide-open three-pointer, threw the ball out of bounds on offense on the next possession, and then capped that with a foul on a WC layup attempt five seconds later. He stayed in the game. Nuff said.

(I've added the emphasis in the above quote on the word "freshman". You'll see why in a moment.)

Upon reading your post, I immediately thought to myself, "Who in the world is Prikkel bashing in that paragraph? Well, besides Brenegan, of course. Who is that 'freshman reserve' who made all of those mistakes in quick order?"

Four of the eight NPU players who saw the floor in that game on Saturday against Wheaton were freshmen: Keith Willert, Devin Burnett, Mike Ventura, and Jeremiah Sargent. The other four consisted of two sophomores (Jay Alexander and Ed Whitaker) and two seniors (Brett Mathisen and Bjorn Berg). So which of the four freshmen was the miscreant fingered in your post on Monday afternoon? It couldn't be Willert, Burnett, or Ventura, because they weren't reserves. They all started the game. The lone freshman reserve, Sargent, entered the game fairly early (he's credited with a rebound at 10:26 in the first half) and never had a sequence of miscues of the type that you described. The one freshman who did have a sequence of miscues like that was Willert, who had a quick foul on a John Mohan bucket and a turnover upon re-entering the game at about the five-minute mark of the second half after a long stay on the bench. This was when Wheaton was only up by five points. So Willert was the only likely candidate among the four freshmen who matched the description you gave. But he was a starter, not a reserve ... so I pointed that out here on CCIW Chat.

Well, it turns out that you were talking about Ed Whitaker, not Keith Willert. But there's only one problem with that, Dennis: Ed Whitaker is a sophomore, not a freshman.

This has absolutely nothing to do with skin color or Teflon or glasses, Dennis. This has to do with properly identifying players when you make one of them the subject of one of your rants. To be specific, it's about knowing what class they're in.

This is neither rocket science nor brain surgery. In fact, Mr. B figured out your mistake and pointed it out on CCIW Chat a few hours after your frenzied St. Vitus' Dance on Wednesday morning when you thought you'd caught me in a mistake. Your inattention to his correction regarding Whitaker's class standing compounds your original mistake.

Here's a helpful hint: Next time that you're looking at a game program or an online roster, and you see these characters -- Fr. -- next to a player's name, that means that the player is a freshman. If you see these characters -- So. -- next to a player's name, that means that the player is a sophomore.

I know that this sounds confusing. But you're a bright boy, and if you study hard I'm sure that you'll pick it up eventually.

[Gregory Sager]

GS,

It was almost painful to watch this remembering the huge battles that North Park and North Central used to have.  Here's hoping NP gets it figured out and a great rivalry gets back to what it should be!

I think NPU will get it figured out. But getting it figured out starts with getting CCIW-quality players, and right now the Vikings don't have enough of them. Brenegan's brought some in this season, but it'll take at least another strong recruiting class to get the talent level up to spec. Then, he's going to have to keep them healthy -- NPU has been badly snakebitten by knee injuries this season to Mike Peterson, Glen Woodside, and then leading scorer and rebounder Jason Gordon at midseason. Then it'll be a matter of getting the experience necessary to compete every night; this is a league that is almost always unforgiving to underclassmen-dominated teams over the long haul of fourteen games.

[Gregory Sager]

If I am wrong, be considerate by placing me in the same cage with agressive lions, tigers, and bears...hold it, I am on the CCIW site....so, let me plead....I want the pain of rebuttal to go quickly!  (I have noticed for some time, looking over the shoulder of those in my family who read D3hoops constantly, that sometimes posting on the CCIW page can be very much like stepping into the wrong cage!)

Speaking only for myself, Bluemom, I think that you're more than holding your own here. In fact, between you, 79jaybird, BJB1, and the Knuppel brothers, you are part of the deepest and best contingent of Elmhurst supporters this room has ever had. Keep it up!

(If I left out any of you active 'jays fans, my apologies.)

Speaking of awards, I'm with Augie Superfan and Hoops Fan on the issue of the COTY award. If you're just going to give it to the coach of the championship team by fiat of the CCIW bylaws, then it's not really a distinct award. It's just an adjunct of the conference championship trophy. The only way to make a named award (COTY, MOP, etc.) legit is to at least open up the possibility of giving that award to someone not affiliated with the championship team -- even if the award does tend to go to the home address of the champs most, or nearly all, of the time.

[Gregory Sager]

Another interesting historical note, since inception in 1975 only three (3) teams with undefeated records have become NCAA Division III National Champions:
1986  Potsdam St. (32-0) 
1995  Wis.-Platteville (31-0) 
1998  Wis.-Platteville (30-0) 
The two USWP teams coach was Bo Ryan.

The coach of that Potsdam State team, Jerry Welsh, was no slouch, either: Two national titles, two national runners-up, four Elite Eights, and the winningest program on any level of college basketball in the 1980s.

TitanQ or IWUMichigander... how many times has 1 conference been able to field 3 teams into the NCAA Tournament. The only one that I know of was 2001 when Elmhurst, IWU, and Carthage each made the big dance.

It's happened more frequently than anyone's realized. I started looking them up, going back only to when the tourney first expanded from 32 teams to 40 back in 1989 (I'm uncertain of some schools' conference affiliations before that point), and I stopped counting by the time I got through 1992. As Titanhammer mentioned, the CCIW got three teams into the dance in '90 (North Central, Illinois Wesleyan, and North Park) -- but three other leagues (SUNYAC, NJAC, and UAA) got in three teams apiece that year as well. The NJAC got three teams into the dance every year for about a decade -- four teams into the dance on several occasions. This was back when tournament rules dictated that at-large bids be apportioned on a regional basis. The NESCAC got four in a couple of times, and three in pretty regularly. The WIAC got four in as well in 1997, and three on several other occasions in the '90s.

In other words, there's absolutely no novelty to getting three teams into the tourney field. But the only two times that the CCIW has accomplished this feat are 1990 and 2001.

[79jaybird]

Thanks Greg,  and very interesting.  Only 2 times the CCIW has placed 3 teams.. well here's hoping this year makes it 3!
Bluemom-- Don't knock yourself down or beat yourself up.  You have to have a strong backbone to be a member of these boards and let the small (stuff) go.  Most of the posters have valid info and have knowledge of their schools/sports, however some of the posters are just cheerleaders.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There is a novelty in recent years though, as they aren't apportioned by region any longer.  With so few Pool C bids before this year, it would be a big deal to get three teams in.  However, with the expansion now, it will probably be much more commonplace.  Four bids may be the new three.

[iwumichigander]

Mich, you get your Titan Card taken away for a day...the 1997 Titan national champs were 29-2.  IWU lost @ North Central on 1/22 and at Benedictine on 3/1.  Otherwise all W's.

The 2001 Final Four team was 24-7 - I'm sure some NCAA website has IWU's '97 team with that 24-7 record but I'd expect more of you.

Opps - I deserve that.  I "trusted" an NCAA site to grab the nmbers on my way out the door. I sent a note to NCAA Sports

[Knightstalker]

Back in the mid-ninties the NJAC would put four teams because each region got eight teams into the 64 team tournament.  This was a distinct advantage for a conference like the NJAC.  The Atlantic region at the time wasn't much different than it is now.  The only real difference is a few more teams that are now D-III like Farmingdale and NYU and a couple of independents have been moved to the East.

[titanhammer]

I wouldn't worry about the stamina of these young'ens.  As long as they don't have any injuries, they'll keep going like the Energizer Bunny.

Here is something I do worry about as a whole for the CCIW teams that make the playoffs.  I don't know if I have just noticed it more this year, but the officials seem to let more holding and physical play go than in the past.  My worry is that we'll get some officials from another conference or area that won't let that go and cause problems for our teams.  I'm sure they will be able to adjust...I just hope they don't have to change their style of play to the point where it would be a detriment.  It shouldn't matter with the athleticism and experience that our top four have.

[Knightstalker]

I wouldn't worry about the stamina of these young'ens.  As long as they don't have any injuries, they'll keep going like the Energizer Bunny.

Here is something I do worry about as a whole for the CCIW teams that make the playoffs.  I don't know if I have just noticed it more this year, but the officials seem to let more holding and physical play go than in the past.  My worry is that we'll get some officials from another conference or area that won't let that go and cause problems for our teams.  I'm sure they will be able to adjust...I just hope they don't have to change their style of play to the point where it would be a detriment.  It shouldn't matter with the athleticism and experience that our top four have.

That is what happens to NJAC and MAC teams every time they get to the NCAA tournament.  Officials from other conferences that don't allow the physical play that those two conferences are used to playing and are allowed to play.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I guess I've seen too many really bad refs in my time.  I'm just happy if they are consistent; a coach has to train his guys to figure out what the refs are letting go and adjust accordingly.

[79jaybird]

North Park used to dominate Elmhurst and used to hold a huge advantage in the W column over the Bluejays.  This weekend I don't think the game will be close.  Times sure have changed.
I hope Elmhurst doesn't have a let down because this upcoming week vs. North Central could go a long way to determine the length of Elmhurst's season.  If EC finishes ahead of NC chances are they will get a 3rd bout with IWU.  If they finish 4th then you have a first round game vs. Augie which would be a tough opener.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

It's not like the #1 and #2 are decided.  IWU still get its own shot at Augie and Augie has a few tough games yet to play.  There is no reason why they couldn't finish tied at the top.  It might not be as close as the battle for #3, but its still not over.

[albcard]

#2 is not decided either.  If NC doesn't drop a game and IWU loses to Augustana, then things can change again. I think NC has something to prove to Augie, and specially Elmhurst.  But then so does IWU to Augies....anyway... If...then... my point is that this conference is too unpredictable to make any kind of predictions with certainty. Whatever happens I think we all need to be proud about the conference, and feel bad for 1 (I will be positive and not say "or 2") of the 4 teams that won't make the big tournament