MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[JUSTINTYEM]

Old School thats a PERFECT IDEA.Hell maybe some year we could get it at the RESCH Center in GB.That would be a great place to host it!!!!

[veterancciwfan]

David C.: Wooster hosts 2 holiday tournaments? Consider yourself lucky. IWU used to host a tip-off tournament every 3 years in conjunction with DePauw and Wash. U. but now plays on the road to open the season.  I don't understand why IWU can't host either a tip-off or a holiday 4-team tourney at least once every three years. IWU played a total of 10 home games out of the 32 played this year, 10 out of 24 discounting the 8 played in the conf. and D3 tournaments.

Also, one other question for you and I'm not trying to be disrespectful of the very successful Wooster program. But what is Wooster's D3 tournament record the last 10 years when they played either on a nuetral court or on the road?And what is it playing at home during the same time span? I don't keep track of this, but it seems that either Wooster or Wittenberg tend to play a lot of D3 tourney games on their home courts.

Regarding Salem: I agree that Salem does a great job of hosting the Final 4. I have long advocated that D3 go to the D2 tournament format. Get the 8 regional champs, seed them, and bring them to a nuetral floor. Play the quarter finals on Friday afternoon and night, the semis on Sat. night, and the championship game on Monday night with a decent chance for national TV coverage on ESPN 2. Build up some tournament tradition, similar to what the NAIA did and does with the 32-team Div. 1 tournament in KC. I know that there was a significant local fan base for the NAIA during the 60s, 70s, and early 80s when IWU played there. I don't know if that is still the case today. But the NAIA is a real tournament, unlike the D3, which isn't until the Final 4, which is a big deal and well done by the NCAA and all the hard working folks in Salem.  

[und63]

What would be so wrong about rotating the Final Four, like the World Cup or the D1 tourney or the Super Bowl?  Play it in Salem this year, play it in the midwest area next year, heck play it in San Diego the following year (don't they hold a nice holiday tourney ever year?) etc.  Like Salem, just find a 5,000 seat arena.  I think you could build a fan base by doing that.

Agree!  No one can argue against the fact that Salem does a fine job of hosting the tournament, but this same fine hosting by cities and volunteers goes on all over the nation.  I've volunteered for State of Illinois volleyball and basketball tournaments of larger size than the D3 Final Four and it was accomplished in the same fine style!  And, you don't have to limit it to 5,000-7,000 size arenas.  If the lower bowl of an 11,000 arena is filled, you have an atmosphere 2nd to none.
To me, it is an issue of sharing the travel distance east to west on a rotating basis.  I've traveled the 700+ miles east 4 times now in 10 years which means Thursday travel if you have family involved.  It is time for the east to enjoy the trip, come on in the waters fine anytime of the year provided you don't go too far north!  In that event, bring some bait for ice fishing and rocks for curling.
As to the proposition of "where the majority of the schools are located",
the Final 4 format is going to involve a midwest and west..it's a safe bet which schools (conferences) are going to be involved.
I also really like Lanny's tournament proposal!

[Mr. Ypsi]

What would be so wrong about rotating the Final Four, like the World Cup or the D1 tourney or the Super Bowl?  Play it in Salem this year, play it in the midwest area next year, heck play it in San Diego the following year (don't they hold a nice holiday tourney ever year?) etc.  Like Salem, just find a 5,000 seat arena.  I think you could build a fan base by doing that.

Agree!  No one can argue against the fact that Salem does a fine job of hosting the tournament, but this same fine hosting by cities and volunteers goes on all over the nation.  I've volunteered for State of Illinois volleyball and basketball tournaments of larger size than the D3 Final Four and it was accomplished in the same fine style!  And, you don't have to limit it to 5,000-7,000 size arenas.  If the lower bowl of an 11,000 arena is filled, you have an atmosphere 2nd to none.
To me, it is an issue of sharing the travel distance east to west on a rotating basis.  I've traveled the 700+ miles east 4 times now in 10 years which means Thursday travel if you have family involved.  It is time for the east to enjoy the trip, come on in the waters fine anytime of the year provided you don't go too far north!  In that event, bring some bait for ice fishing and rocks for curling.
As to the proposition of "where the majority of the schools are located",
the Final 4 format is going to involve a midwest and west..it's a safe bet which schools (conferences) are going to be involved.
I also really like Lanny's tournament proposal!

I mostly liked your post, but "bring...rocks for curling"?

Can you imagine the liability issues of curling rocks in the overhead storage bins??!!

[David Collinge]

Also, one other question for you and I'm not trying to be disrespectful of the very successful Wooster program. But what is Wooster's D3 tournament record the last 10 years when they played either on a nuetral court or on the road?And what is it playing at home during the same time span? I don't keep track of this, but it seems that either Wooster or Wittenberg tend to play a lot of D3 tourney games on their home courts.

It stinks.  I'm not sure of the neutral-court record, but I believe that the Scots are 1-10 on the other guy's court in the tournament under Coach Moore.  Wooster's been sent on the road for the 2nd round each of the past two seasons, where they have lost (albeit to very good teams--Albion and Transylvania--in very close games).  Prior to that, I think they got to host two consecutive setionals, leading to appearances in the Final Four and sectional finals.  The gaudy record that the NCAC champ usually posts, combined with the good facilities at both Wooster and Wittenberg, and their relatively central location, tends to lead to tournament hosting opportunities.  Although I should point out that Albion hosted the GL/South sectional last year. 

[Titan Q]

Chicago NAIA power Robert Morris lost in the NAIA D1 national semifinal game tonight to Oklahoma City U., 94-92.  OK C U was led by a guy Bloomington-Normal basketball fans will remember -- former Illinois State Redbird Lorenzo Gordon, who had 31 pts.  Gordon was 1st Team All-Missouri Valley last year at ISU...and as Billy Packer may now realize, the Valley is a pretty good D1 league.  (OK City will play the winner of Oklahoma Baptist vs Texas Wesleyan, which just tipped.)

IWU non-conference opponent Olivet Nazarene had a nice run.  ONU defeated the #1-ranked team in NAIA D1, Mountain State, before falling in the Elite 8 to Oklahoma Baptist...

http://naia.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/031806aaa.html

http://naia.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2005-2006/game23box.html

Olivet was led in that game by Stan Chismark's 27.  That Normal Community H.S. team of 2002-03 had some talent...

Zach Freeman (IWU)
Andrew Freeman (IWU)
Adam Krumtinger (North Central)
Stan Chismark (Olivet Nazarene)

[Titan Q]

The Massey Ratings are not updated through the Final Four, but through last weekend Illinois Wesleyan's 2005-06 schedule was rated as the toughest out of almost 400 NCAA Division III teams.  When games vs Virginia Wesleyan and Amherst are factored in, that strength of schedule rating will only improve.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=6

Here are the 10 toughest schedules per Massey (through games of 3/11):

1. Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)
2. Carthage (CCIW)
3. Wittenberg (NCAC)
4. Calvin (MIAA)
5. Augustana (CCIW)
6. UW-Stout (WIAC)
7. UW-River Falls (WIAC)
8. UW-LaCrosse (WIAC)
9. UW-Platteville (WIAC)
10. UW-Oshkosh (WIAC)

[David Collinge]

The Massey Ratings are not updated through the Final Four, but through last weekend Illinois Wesleyan's 2005-06 schedule was rated as the toughest out of almost 400 NCAA Division III teams.  When games vs Virginia Wesleyan and Amherst are factored in, that strength of schedule rating will only improve.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=6

Here are the 10 toughest schedules per Massey (through games of 3/11):

1. Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)
2. Carthage (CCIW)
3. Wittenberg (NCAC)
4. Calvin (MIAA)
5. Augustana (CCIW)
6. UW-Stout (WIAC)
7. UW-River Falls (WIAC)
8. UW-LaCrosse (WIAC)
9. UW-Platteville (WIAC)
10. UW-Oshkosh (WIAC)

This list is a testament to how tough the CCIW and WIAC are.  But kudos to Wittenberg, who managed the 3rd toughest schedule despite playing 13 games against NCAC opponents other than Wooster and Ohio Wesleyan.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The Massey Ratings are not updated through the Final Four, but through last weekend Illinois Wesleyan's 2005-06 schedule was rated as the toughest out of almost 400 NCAA Division III teams.  When games vs Virginia Wesleyan and Amherst are factored in, that strength of schedule rating will only improve.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=6

Here are the 10 toughest schedules per Massey (through games of 3/11):

1. Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)
2. Carthage (CCIW)
3. Wittenberg (NCAC)
4. Calvin (MIAA)
5. Augustana (CCIW)
6. UW-Stout (WIAC)
7. UW-River Falls (WIAC)
8. UW-LaCrosse (WIAC)
9. UW-Platteville (WIAC)
10. UW-Oshkosh (WIAC)

This list is a testament to how tough the CCIW and WIAC are.  But kudos to Wittenberg, who managed the 3rd toughest schedule despite playing 13 games against NCAC opponents other than Wooster and Ohio Wesleyan.

And kudos to Calvin, who played 11-12 MIAA games against teams not named Hope or Albion!

[Titan Q]

Texas Wesleyan defeated Oklahoma Baptist in that other NAIA D1 semifinal game tonight.  The TWU/Oklahoma City U. national title game will be live on CSTV tomorrow at 8:00pm central.

For a comparison to the D3 national title game teams, here is how the NAIA I guys stack up size-wise.


Oklahoma City U. (29-7)
G Ryan Godwin (5-11, Sr)
G Dawud Drew (6-4, Sr)
F Trevor Meier (6-6, Sr)
F Lorenzo Gordon (6-7. Sr)
C Dennis Pease (6-8, Jr)

Texas Wesleyan (24-9)
G Ben Hunt (6-2, Sr)
G Brad Schilder (6-4, Sr)
F Nino Etienne (6-3, Jr)
F Evan Patterson (6-7, Jr)
C Scott Reasoner (6-8. Sr)



Wittenberg (30-4)
G Pat Denbow (6-0, Jr)
G Phil Steffes (6-1, Sr)
F Kenny Brady (6-4, Sr)
F Dane Borchers (6-8, Sr)
C Dan Russ (6-9, Sr)

Virginia Wesleyan (30-3)
G Thomas Sumpter (5-11, Jr)
G Marques Fitch (6-0, Sr)
G Ton Ton Balenga (6-1, So)
F Tyler Fantin (6-5, So)
C Brandon Adair (6-5, Jr)

[bluemom]

I must express a sincere congatulation to IWU on their season.  That which they were expected to be or do was a task I don't think too many individuals could weather.  They were, as all good champions are, up to the task when the task requires it.  A third place finish in the final four is the best representation anyone could expect, considering their schedule and the schedule of many of the CCIW teams they faced------there were few Miss Mary's on their schedule.  I look forward to the final rankings to see where the conference stands compared to many of the others.  What does it say that the majority, save Wittenberg are what within a 250-275 mile radius of the other  (I'm really not good in mileage!)

As for OKLAHOMA CITY in the late seventies or maybe the early eighties made a very strategic decision to move from the NCAA Division I to NAIA Division I. (That was when NAIA was strong and vibrant.)   They were an instant powerhouse as compared to being the doormat for OU, OSU, Tulsa, Arkansas, and other Division I teams.  They also did not have the athletic endowment to compete with the big boys and the enhancement of those programs in the years that followed.  Quite frankly, Oklahoma money was going to Norman (so close to OKC ), money sources challenged by Oklahoma State who made a decision to compete more agressively in D-I, and the significant increase in ORU programs and Tulsa's desire to maintain their mid-major (not speaking in terms of this year's NCAA tourney!) university status.  They have been a perrenial NAIA National Representative ever since! 

What was surprising to OKU was that about the same time they changed, the NAIA D-I schools soon found that joining NCAA either in D-II or D-III, brought dollars which the NCAA affiliation attracted, even trickling down enough to support their programs as opposed to the NAIA which truly had limited attraction to the money brokers.  Many of the schools straddled the fence for a while, but found the benefits of the NCAA much more beneficial.

The schools in the Southwest (Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana)...small, generally church-related had fewer and fewer opponents, farther and farther away while associated with the NAIA.  The one league that was D-III was in Texas (a while a four team football league) Trinity, Austin College, and a couple of others who played each other twice a year in football to cut down on travel costs. 

The Planner of the ASC concept for NCAA Division III needs to be praised for saving a significant number of school athletic programs in Texas and Oklahoma.

After all that.....on the NCAA D-III front, Congrats IWU!

[Greek Tragedy]

Virginia Wesleyan (30-3)
G Thomas Sumpter (5-11, Jr)
G Marques Fitch (6-0, Sr)
G Ton Ton Balenga (6-1, So)
F Tyler Fantin (6-5, So)
C Brandon Adair (6-5, Jr)

Wow, Virginia Wesleyan is really short!  No wonder Keelan and Freeman went off for 27 and 28 points (or 28 and 27), despite losing.  And I thought Point's team was really short this year.

One thing that stood out during Point's two-year run was their size.  Once they got out to Salem, they shut down All-American forwards Ben Coffin (Williams, 2004) and Seth Hauben (Rochester 2005).  Commentators said at both Finals that Coffin and Hauben had never seen a team out East with such size that Point offered.

Jason Kalsow 6-7
Nick Bennett 6-5
Kyle Gruszynski 6-6/Jon Krull 6-5/Brian Bauer 6-5
Eric Maus 6-9
Neal Krajnik 6-1/Tamaris Releford 5-8

Coffin was 5-13 for 10 points and 6 rebounds.
Hauben was 2-5 for 8 points and 8 rebounds.

That's something Point really misssed this year, was an inside (or several) presence..obviously Virginia Wesleyan didn't have any problem with that!    Myabe they grow players shorter in the South! lol. 

[Titan Q]

Virginia Wesleyan (30-3)
G Thomas Sumpter (5-11, Jr)
G Marques Fitch (6-0, Sr)
G Ton Ton Balenga (6-1, So)
F Tyler Fantin (6-5, So)
C Brandon Adair (6-5, Jr)

Wow, Virginia Wesleyan is really short!  No wonder Keelan and Freeman went off for 27 and 28 points (or 28 and 27), despite losing. 

Against Virginia Wesleyan, IWU's 3/4/5 players scored 72 of IWU's 79 total, going 32-47 (.680).  The guards (Dauksas, Fisher, Arnold) had just 7 points and went 3-11 (.273) from the field.  Based on what we knew about the Marlins coming in, it wasn't a big surprise that IWU's big guys had a field day while the guards got bottled up, but if a guard just makes one more 3-pointer in the game, IWU plays in the national title game.  Adam Dauksas and Matt Arnold each had a great look in final minutes -- I think Adam's would have made it a 4-point Titan lead and Matt's 5.  They were the kind of shots they'd both been knocking down in huge pressure situations in the tournament leading up to to Salem.   The shots just didn't go in and that's the difference between the national championship game and the consolation game.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ncaa5.htm

IWU wouldn't have been in Salem without the clutch performances by Dauksas and Arnold in the tournament though.  Dauksas - 31 @ Whitewater, 26 pts/6 reb/13 assists vs Puget Sound.  Arnold - 10 vs Lawrence, 19 vs Puget Sound. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

What would be so wrong about rotating the Final Four, like the World Cup or the D1 tourney or the Super Bowl?  Play it in Salem this year, play it in the midwest area next year, heck play it in San Diego the following year (don't they hold a nice holiday tourney ever year?) etc.  Like Salem, just find a 5,000 seat arena.  I think you could build a fan base by doing that.

Agree!  No one can argue against the fact that Salem does a fine job of hosting the tournament, but this same fine hosting by cities and volunteers goes on all over the nation.  I've volunteered for State of Illinois volleyball and basketball tournaments of larger size than the D3 Final Four and it was accomplished in the same fine style!  And, you don't have to limit it to 5,000-7,000 size arenas.  If the lower bowl of an 11,000 arena is filled, you have an atmosphere 2nd to none.
To me, it is an issue of sharing the travel distance east to west on a rotating basis.  I've traveled the 700+ miles east 4 times now in 10 years which means Thursday travel if you have family involved.  It is time for the east to enjoy the trip, come on in the waters fine anytime of the year provided you don't go too far north!  In that event, bring some bait for ice fishing and rocks for curling.
As to the proposition of "where the majority of the schools are located",
the Final 4 format is going to involve a midwest and west..it's a safe bet which schools (conferences) are going to be involved.
I also really like Lanny's tournament proposal!

I mostly liked your post, but "bring...rocks for curling"?

Can you imagine the liability issues of curling rocks in the overhead storage bins??!!

The correct term is "stones" people.  You'd think there wasn't just 8 hours a day of curling on tv only month ago!

[Knightstalker]

The Massey Ratings are not updated through the Final Four, but through last weekend Illinois Wesleyan's 2005-06 schedule was rated as the toughest out of almost 400 NCAA Division III teams.  When games vs Virginia Wesleyan and Amherst are factored in, that strength of schedule rating will only improve.

http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=6

Here are the 10 toughest schedules per Massey (through games of 3/11):

1. Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)
2. Carthage (CCIW)
3. Wittenberg (NCAC)
4. Calvin (MIAA)
5. Augustana (CCIW)
6. UW-Stout (WIAC)
7. UW-River Falls (WIAC)
8. UW-LaCrosse (WIAC)
9. UW-Platteville (WIAC)
10. UW-Oshkosh (WIAC)

How does Massey determine the toughest schedules?  What are the factors figured in?