MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[augiedad]

What I am hearing on the IWU job is that things are neck and neck between John Tharp and Todd Raridon. 

[emeritusprof]

I guess the president would be among the last of college employes about whom I'd worry over such a matter as tuition waiver.

[dansand]

The CCIW transfer rule could quite rightly be called the "Grastorf Rule".  Grastorf was a promising freshman starter for the Cardinals who transferred to North Park after that year and was a three-year starter on two NCAA championship teams and a senior team that went to the NCAA tournament.

If Grant Grastorf was the catalyst for the CCIW's adding the transfer rule to the league bylaws, then there was a definite delay involved. Grastorf was a member of the class of '81; Windt was a member of the class of '84, and Egan was a member of the class of '85.

I think Windt might have been the first CCIW athlete effected (or affected I never know which one to use) by the rule.  The rule was most definitely put in right around the time of Grastorf's transfer, for in the early eighties their was loud wailing when QB Lance Hofer transferred in to Augustana and made Bob Reade's Delaware Wing T offense a national powerhouse.  Hofer transferred in from outside the CCIW, but several AD's thought for some reason that the new rule applied to all transfers.  I want to say Hofer's first year at Augie was 82, but it might have been 81.

MW

Hofer, who had played for Reade at Geneseo HS, transferred in from Illinois in 1981. I think at that time, players transferring down (in this case D1 to D3) didn't have to sit out a year, but were ineligible for post-season play (the first year). Augie won the conference in '81, finishing the regular season undefeated and ranked 4th in the nation.

The selection committee's Tom Beck, who's Elmhurst team went 8-1 and finished 2nd in the CCIW, attempted to use Hofer's ineligibility as his justification for not voting for Augie to make the playoffs (way to support the conference, Tom). The Vikings made the playoffs anyway and lost at 2nd-ranked Dayton in the first round.

In '82, when Hofer was a senior, Augie made it to the Stagg Bowl for the first time, losing to West Georgia 14-0.

[John Gleich]

[

I was agreeing that IWU had more talent this year than Point did during their two championship runs.

How, exactly, does one quantify "talent" though?  It almost seems to me that the word talent is alot like the word potential... it sounds really good, but it doesn't automatically equate to much.  For example, IWU, who everyone has said was talented, made it to Salem, and took 3rd.  Last year they lost in the second round of the NCAA's, the two seasons before it was trips to the Sweet 16.  So you've got a senior class who made it to at least the 2nd round of the NCAA's in all 4 years, which is a definate accomplishment.  But if this team was as talented as they're pronounced to be, shouldn't they have gotten farther than the Sweet 16 two and three years ago?  Shouldn't they have not only made it to the promised land (Salem) but also returned victorious?

Maybe I've missed something here.  Or maybe there is more emphasis on "talent" than there should be.  I understand talent to be natural ability.  But what trumps natural ability?  Teamwork can.  Effort can.  And I guess we don't hear a ton about teams that really play VERY well together, or that work very hard, game in and game out. 

Maybe I'm being critical of this kind of talk because IWU seems to hold itself with such esteem that they consider themselves a Division III power.  And, historically, they are WAY up there in wins.  But there had seemed to be something lacking at times in the past few seasons, and, no you couldn't take away the talent... so what was it? 

I think the new coach, whoever it is, is going to have a tough job. 

[titan2000]

Raridon's kid will not get his money's worth for his tuition dollars at either IWU or NCC.

[augie_superfan]

Titan2000, since you are all about academics (and obviously sports since you post on here)...which D3 team has the most Acadedmic All-Americans all-time?

[Greek Tragedy]

What I am hearing on the IWU job is that things are neck and neck between John Tharp and Todd Raridon. 

Does that mean they are the same height?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think we had that talent-potential debate somewhere a while back.  I think they are really synonymous in this sense.  "Talent" isn't talent until it is realized.  So when we say a team has more talent, it really just means potential.  We're saying their ceiling is higher.  Whether they ever get on the ladder is another story.

[commonsense]

I think we had that talent-potential debate somewhere a while back.  I think they are really synonymous in this sense.  "Talent" isn't talent until it is realized.  So when we say a team has more talent, it really just means potential.  We're saying their ceiling is higher.  Whether they ever get on the ladder is another story.

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. To me talent = ability and is only a factor in determining how good a team is. Other factors include: work ethic, coaching, chemistry and good ole fashion team work.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think we had that talent-potential debate somewhere a while back.  I think they are really synonymous in this sense.  "Talent" isn't talent until it is realized.  So when we say a team has more talent, it really just means potential.  We're saying their ceiling is higher.  Whether they ever get on the ladder is another story.

I'm a long time reader, first time poster. To me talent = ability and is only a factor in determining how good a team is. Other factors include: work ethic, coaching, chemistry and good ole fashion team work.

It's a bit obvious, but nevertheless a good, solid first post.  Welcome to the club; we need a little common sense around here.

[correctingtitan]

Augie superfan

Prior to this season, IWU had 13
first-team  Academic All-Americans in men's basketball.  It seems to me that Keelan Amelianovich made it this year but  I could be wrong. Only UCLA's
17 top the IWU total among all-divisions.
    The IWU first-teamers were Dean Gravlin, '72, 73; Bob Spear, '75, '76, '77; Jack Sikma, '76, '77; Al Black, '78; Greg
Yess, '81, '82; Brian Coderre, '87; and Korey Coon, '99, '00.  IWU's basketball brochure listed 14 in 2004-05, but listed only the 13.  Coon was a two-time Academic All-American of the year and Sikma is in the Academic All-America Hall of Fame--Ancient Titan.

[petemcb]

What I am hearing on the IWU job is that things are neck and neck between John Tharp and Todd Raridon. 

Does that mean they are the same height?

[petemcb]

What I am hearing on the IWU job is that things are neck and neck between John Tharp and Todd Raridon. 

Does that mean they are the same height?

Couldn't be.  Have you seen the forehead on Raridon?  Advantage: Raridon

[Knightstalker]

Augie superfan

Prior to this season, IWU had 13
first-team  Academic All-Americans in men's basketball.  It seems to me that Keelan Amelianovich made it this year but  I could be wrong. Only UCLA's
17 top the IWU total among all-divisions.
    The IWU first-teamers were Dean Gravlin, '72, 73; Bob Spear, '75, '76, '77; Jack Sikma, '76, '77; Al Black, '78; Greg
Yess, '81, '82; Brian Coderre, '87; and Korey Coon, '99, '00.  IWU's basketball brochure listed 14 in 2004-05, but listed only the 13.  Coon was a two-time Academic All-American of the year and Sikma is in the Academic All-America Hall of Fame--Ancient Titan.

Jack Sikma does not count as a D-III academic all american.

[Titan Q]

Titan2000, since you are all about academics (and obviously sports since you post on here)...which D3 team has the most Acadedmic All-Americans all-time?

http://www2.iwu.edu:82/sports/AcademicAA.shtml

1. Nebraska - 220
2. Notre Dame - 159
3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology - 120
4. Penn State - 116
5. Augustana (Ill.) - 114
6. Bucknell - 110
7. Illinois Wesleyan - 102
8. Stanford - 99
9. U. of California, Los Angeles - 97
10. Nebraska Wesleyan - 90
11. Emory - 89
12. Texas - 85
12. Georgia - 85
14. Arizona State - 84
15. Florida - 81
16. Michigan State - 80
17. Purdue - 79
18. Ball State - 77
19. The Ohio State University - 74
19. Arizona - 74