MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[devildog29]

I'm sure I'll get blasted for this one, but I just can't let that one go without a response, against my better judgement as this is not a political board, it's a basketball board.  But the first round has already gone down range, so here goes.

Are there bad places in Iraq where bad guys are still causing trouble?  Yes, of course.  Is that true of the whole country?  Not even close.  This is a very small minority compared to the whole country.  The same can be said of our own country though.  There are places in every major city in this country that nobody on this board would walk through alone in the middle of the night.  That doesn't represent this whole country though, just like the small amount of news you get doesn't represent the whole country of Iraq either.  To say we are making more enemies than anyone can imagine, I guess that must be true because I can't imagine it.  I certainly couldn't imagine it when I was there and I was eating dinner once a week on personal invitations in the homes of the locals who were so thankful for us being there.  I couldn't imagine it when I had to order 5000 photos of the president because all of the locals wanted pictures of him to hang in their houses because they were so thankful for being rid of a tyrant.  I couldn't imagine it for my friend Termite who coached the Iraqi Olympic boxing team and took Naja Ali to Greece for the Olympics and won his first bout when just a year earlier he was being tortured for losing a bout.  So if those things are making more enemies, then no, I can't imagine it, nor do I have any sympathy or respect for these enemies because of it.

Trust me, I sympathize and respect the sacrifice that your brother-in-law is making as much if not more than anyone else on this board.  It's not easy leaving crying relatives behind who worry you aren't coming back.  I know that feeling all too well.  But the bottom line is, nobody put a gun to our heads and forced us to sign the contract and raise our hand and pledge to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.  That's what they did to my friend Abbas (who ended up working for me) when they pointed a rifle at him and told him to fight the Americans or they would kill him.  Thankfully, we have the freedom in this country to choose whether or not to serve that duty. 

Sorry for my soapbox, but I couldn't keep quiet on that one.  This will be my one and only response.  Back to basketball from now on.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mark,

May God protect your brother-in-law.  With the recent history in Iraq, don't bet the farm on 10 months - they have a 'draft-lite' going by forcing troops to stay longer than they volunteered for.

While Saddam was a monster, he had NOTHING to do with al-qaida (in fact, in 2003, BECAUSE Saddam was such a tyrant, Iraq was the LEAST likely country in the entire middle east to harbor people trying to kill Americans).  Alas, it is now a training ground for terrorists - thanks, George and Dick (and good-ol'-Rummy)!

[devildog29]

Ok, forgive me, 1 more response.  I assume that al-Zarqawi, who had been receiving medical treatment in Baghdad since 2002 was not one of the people interested in killing Americans?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Ok, forgive me, 1 more response.  I assume that al-Zarqawi, who had been receiving medical treatment in Baghdad since 2002 was not one of the people interested in killing Americans?

c'mon, Devildog, you can do better than that!

Zarqawi had NO relationship with al-qaida prior to 2003; and, in fact, was disclaimed (and chastized) by them in 2005 (06?).  I didn't know about the medical treatment - do you have a source for that?

Regardless, Zarqawi is dead.  Why are there so many Iraqi's trying to kill Americans (or anyone working with Americans) (or anyone of a different religious or ethnic group) when things are going so well?

Others may differ, but the rate of killings by Sunni and Shi'ite death squads sure sounds like civil war to me - what number of deaths (which are almost certainly undercounted, since now the death squads are invading hospitals to kill the wounded, thus the wounded often never go there in the first place) would it take to say we have plunged that country into the abyss?

[devildog29]

Chuck, Zarqawi had been wounded in Afghanistan fighting alongside Taliban and al-Queda and was given refuge and medical treatment in Iraq.  So to say he had no relation with al-Queda is just plain wrong.  And the only reason they chastised him was because they believed some of the tactics he was using was hurting them politically in public, not because they didn't support his mission.  This info is widely known, but since professors must have their sources, here is a brief bio, though dated.

http://www.cpa-iraq.org/bios/zarqawi_bio.html

As for why are there so many Iraqi's trying to kill Americans, again Chuck, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story right?  Are there maybe 10,000 Iraqis trying to kill Americans?  Probably.  Is 10,000 people a lot?  It depends how you look at it.  By itself, yes it's a lot.  But compared to a population of 24 million Iraqis?....seems like a pretty small percentage to me.  I'm sure Chicago probably has a couple thousand people in gangs, dealing drugs, killing each other.  Does that make it total chaos in the city?  I highly doubt it. 

[diehardfan]

I just got back from the store where I bought over 100 dollars worth of stuff to put into care packages to send to servicemen in Iraq. My cousin Jonathan, who just turned 19, and who is a Marine infantryman, left for Iraq this past Thursday. In addition to being an extremely brilliant, compassionate guy with big dreams and a great heart, he is also my best friends, and is the person who understands me the best in the whole world. I honestly don't know how I will go on living if he dies, apart from the grace of God. I had a hard enough time after my grandmother (the person who believed in me the most of anyone in the world) passed away a year and a half ago. I also have two other good friends who are currently deployed in Iraq.

Being comprised of humans, I can guarantee that our government is not doing everything perfectly. I don't, in any way, want to minimize your angst Mark. But if you or anyone else wants to believe that my cousin and my friends went over there to risk their lives for absolutely nothing, please, for the love of God, keep your opinions off the board. Aside from the fact that this is a basketball board, I just can't handle reading those things right now.

[Knightstalker]

April, Mark as someone who has been seperated from his family and loved ones for long periods of time in a hazardous situation I can tell you the best thing to do is write, send calling cards and let them know that you are doing alright.  Mark this especially applies to your  brother in law, believe me when I say he is just as worried about his family as they are about him.  What I did in the Navy we would get no news from home for 90 days sometimes, we weren't getting shot at, but if found our Captain would have been disavowed by the US government because of where we were.

Contact your local VFW or American Legion post and see what they are doing, you can get involved there, it helps.

And stop arguing whether it is right or wrong to be there.  We are now there and we need to support the troops and either finish the job or get the H*!! out, we don't need another Vietnam.  I am old enough to remember Vietnam and what it did to our country and we are headed down the same path.

April, your cousin is a jarhead (sailor talk for marine, remember to ask him why he is called a jarhead) that means he will go in harms way but also he and his unit are better trained than anybody else and they always take care of each other.  You will not find another branch of the military that are as close knit as the Marines.  He is in the best of hands in my opinion. and with your faith, love and prayers he can't lose.   

[Warren Thompson]

Perhaps the current war isn't an appropriate topic for this board.

[devildog29]

knightstalker, amen.  See, a jarhead and a swabbie can even agree, so there is hope out there............

[armywife]

I agree with April. I guess there's not much to talk about with basketball or we wouldn't be on this topic. Since I'm married to a soldier whose been to Iraq and we are living in Germany while serving with the military, I'm probably more qualified to talk on this subject then I am on CCIW basketball right now, but I'll resist.

April, how's it going? I haven't been near the board in months. How's recruiting coming? How many sets of twins did IWU sign and did Augie land some special players this year?

[dansand]

Hey Armywife,

Glad to have you back (we need more Augie fans on the board). Here's the link to the Vikings' recruiting class. I think it's a pretty good one. I don't know if any of them will help right away (my guess is maybe Kyle Waller might have the best chance). The most intriguing guy might be Terrence Green, son of former NBA player Lamar Green. He's 6-9 with a 7-2 wingspan. He's pretty thin and raw right now, though, from what I hear.

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1149195054&archive=&start_from=&ucat=4&;

[True Basketball Fan]

Moving on to another team......

Augie's schedule is loaded with in region games (except St. Ambrose), and most are games they can win.  2 of their 3 toughest games are at home (WashU and Wartburg), with the one road game being Steven's Point.  Fortunately for Augie, Point is not the team they were a few years ago, although they always pose a threat especially at the Quandt.  Also worth mentioning, they play NO tourneys or classics and have 7 home games vs. 4 away games.  Coe and Simpson will both be quality teams, but should equal wins for Augie.  With all that, they definitely have a favorable schedule, but it also just tough enough to be sufficient preparation for CCIW league play.

Even with the significant losses that Augie has endured, they still are the defending regular season champs and should make it tough for other CCIW foes to dethrone them.

[diehardfan]

Martie,  I'm sorry I have not kept in better touch. If I send you an email, should I sent it to the one in your profile?

Dan, even just between you and the beloved always optimistic "augiefan", the Augie posters who frequently post may be few, but they are certainly informative and entertaining. 

I don't know if this is just me, but isn't NCC the obvious favorite coming into this season? I've pretty much assumed that the team that won the CCIW tourney, and returns their top two players, Simmons and Walton (whom I am glad is starting to get the recognition he's deserved for a while) plus Adam Krumtinger and Chris Drennan (who put up some pretty nice stats for a freshman under the shadow of Simmons and Walton) would start on top. I mean, they're obviously going to need to find some guard replacements, and I always liked Teising a lot more than he got credit for but I don't think that Vicario and Teising are irreplaceable.

Augustana, on the other hand, to a large extent, lost the soul of it's team with the loss of Harrigan and McAdams-Thornton. I don't doubt one bit that Augustana will be tough as they always are (especially when they play Wheaton at Rock Island, blah... though we almost got you last year!!! ) the same way that IWU will probably be tough next year, and how Wheaton was tough last year despite losing almost everyone after the 04-05 season. Augustana returns three of their starters just like NCC. But I still think NCC has to be the favorite based on the players that both programs lost.

I wasn't going to bring this up until closer to the season, but what the heck, since it was brought up already... what do you guys think? Who's the favorite this year?

[armywife]

Dan,

It's good to be back. It's been an interesting summer. Thanks for the article on the new recruits for Augie. It looks like a good class. It will be interesting to see what happens next year. Mike Kolze and Mike Thomas will be sophmores and hopefully will have great careers at Augie. They(Augie) have a lot of experience coming back next year, it should be a good season for them.

April, you can e mail me at the e mail in my profile. It will be good to reconnect.

My daughter is starting the big college hunt. It's a fun process, and her frontrunning school is D3, University of Mary Hardin Baylor.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Good luck with the college hunt.  Good to see you've raised a child right, sticking with d3 and all.