MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[robberki]

I think I'm showing my ignorance here, but how does a mumps epidemic happen these days? I thought we were all vacinated? It's the 21st century and I still don't have a flying car yet so I guess anything is possible...

Well i guess nebraskans don't watch the news or read the papers - in recent days 19 students at wheaton college have come down with the mumps - which is a highly contagious disease - which in extremely rare cases can be fatal.

Dar dee dar dar, I'm from Nebraska and I don't know what a newspaper is, I better just go to the outhouse and then marry my sister..dar dee dar dar

Of course I know it's going on, I just thought everyone was vaccinated so I was curious how an outbreak could happen. I could see it happening in undeveloped countries but I didn't count on a mumps outbreak in Chicago. That's why I said "my ignorance..."

[mr_b]

I think I'm showing my ignorance here, but how does a mumps epidemic happen these days? I thought we were all vacinated? It's the 21st century and I still don't have a flying car yet so I guess anything is possible...

Well i guess nebraskans don't watch the news or read the papers - in recent days 19 students at wheaton college have come down with the mumps - which is a highly contagious disease - which in extremely rare cases can be fatal.

Dar dee dar dar, I'm from Nebraska and I don't know what a newspaper is, I better just go to the outhouse and then marry my sister..dar dee dar dar

Of course I know it's going on, I just thought everyone was vaccinated so I was curious how an outbreak could happen. I could see it happening in undeveloped countries but I didn't count on a mumps outbreak in Chicago. That's why I said "my ignorance..."

This past spring there was a larger mumps epidemic in Iowa.  We hosted a doubleheader against the U of Dubuque, and afterwards the umps told us not to shake hands with the opposing players.  The athletic trainers were also apprised of the situation and had all the necessary protective gear at the ready.  I read that the suspected source of the outbreak was an exchange student from the UK who might have brought the mumps with him to Iowa. 

[Gregory Sager]

The bottom line question for any fan (in this case North Park) is respectability in the league your team chooses to play in (in this case the CCIW).

North Park basketball has been a bad joke in the CCIW for the last six years.

There has been no regular competitiveness against the top teams in the league - and quite frankly one often had to wonder under the previous regime how the players in the program would choose to embarrass their school on and off the court that night.

We are now 12 years post-Bosko - the third year of the Brennegan era (or is it fourth - all the teams have been so bad lately its hard to keep track - it's just one enormous blur of bad basketball).

Nobody's arguing any of this, with two exceptions -- one minor, one major. The minor problem with your screed is the fact that you still can't spell Brenegan's name properly. The other is your line about how players over the past six years "would choose to embarrass their school on and off the court." I can understand being embarrassed as a fan by the poor play of the team -- since that has happened all-too-frequently to me as a Vikings fan over those six years -- but that's clearly not what you're getting at here. Players don't perform poorly of their own volition ("choose to embarrass"). It's apparent that you're getting at stuff that isn't actually related to basketball performance.

There have been a few isolated incidents on the court that did embarrass the program and the school. I can name four in particular over those six years, two of which occurred in road games at Wheaton and two of which occurred at home games against Elmhurst -- two of the four involving a player who was a walking, talking disgrace and who had no business wearing NPU colors. But to use those isolated incidents to tar the entire program with a broad brush is outlandish hyperbole. The vast majority of Vikings under Rees Johnson (and all of them under Paul Brenegan) have never done anything to warrant such a slanderous charge. And if you're hinting at something more sinister with your "off the court" implications, I'd like to hear them. For someone who doesn't go to many games anymore, you certainly hint at having a lot of dirt on NPU players.

Other than that, though, as I said it's not as though anyone is arguing with your conclusions. North Park's men's team has stunk up the CCIW on the basketball court over the past six years. You're stating the obvious, and no NPU supporter who posts here -- not me, nor anyone else -- has ever said anything to the contrary about the program's descent into humiliation on the court.

Question - for anyone - who do you really think they can beat in the CCIW this coming season?

Question -- for you -- what makes you so all-fired certain that NPU is going to stink again? What leads you to draw that conclusion? Where's your scouting report on the Vikings (or any of the other seven teams)? What's the basis for your analysis? Is it the fact that you didn't see any tall players at the McCarrell/Djurickovic banquet? We've already gone over how you were mistaken about that conclusion. Is it the fact that Brenegan's teams haven't done squat to date? Brenegan has yet to prove he can build a competitive team, fair enough. But since when does that mean that he is therefore doomed to never being able to build one? Bill Harris went 4-12 in his first year as Wheaton's coach -- and he had already established a fine track record as the head coach of King's (NY) prior to his arrival at Wheaton. Grey Giovanine went 4-10 in his first year at Augustana; and he, like Rees Johnson, was a former D1 head coach. Scott Trost went 3-11 in his first year at Elmhurst. Joe Ramsey, who won three CCIW titles at Millikin, had a losing record in his first campaign down in Decatur, as did Trost in Bloomington. I don't understand why you feel that a head coach should be written off as a failure if he doesn't win immediately out of the starting gate.

The rule of thumb in college basketball is that a coach gets one student generation -- four years -- to prove he can win. Even Keith Peterson, the guy who ran the North Park program into the ground in the first place back in the '90s, got four years to prove himself. If Brenegan hasn't gotten the ship moving in the right direction by the end of the 2007-08 season, I'll lead the chorus for his removal myself.

Last year they faced a Wheaton team that was descimated from the previous season and embarrassed themselves twice.  That's supposed to be "the game" against "the arch-rival" (Let's go dancing).  Wheaton danced all over us - at will.

Question - for anyone - how many North Park fans are going to games at Elmhurst, North Central, Wheaton or even North Park for that matter? 

The faculty and staff at North Park have joined the alumni in near total abandonment of the program.

More obvious stuff that no one is arguing. This is stuff that I've pointed out on CCIW Chat countless times. And none of it is germane to the issue of how well the Vikings will do this coming season, aside from the fact that Wheaton was an underestimated team in the CCIW last season that'll give the Vikings two very tough contests in 2006-07 (based upon their returnees and the reappearance of Kent Raymond).

After working all day I have a 15-mile commute home - then another 25-mile drive to get to North Park - then another 25-mile drive home after the game - and I have to be at work the next day at 8 a.m.  I not a campus maven who can just stick around after work.

If there was something worth seeing at a North Park basketball perhaps more of the alumni would think the commute back to campus worthwhile.

And in 40 years I've seen more North Park home and away basketball games then you will ever see - probably well over 600 - heck in 35 years as official scorer I missed only four home games.

Neither Mr. B nor anyone else is questioning your attendance record during your years as North Park's official scorer in the days of yore. But it's irrelevant to the present and to the near past -- which I think you sense yourself by providing a litany of commuting excuses as to why you've hardly ever graced the crackerbox with your presence in recent years. Nobody really cares about how many games you missed during the '60s, '70s, '80s, and into the '90s, because nobody is discussing those years.

Plus, finally, I don't hide behind a monicker either.  My name is on every one of my posts.

I know Mr. B personally, and I can vouch for the fact that he has a very valid reason for using an alias for his Posting Up identity.

So actually Mr_b - your post is about what a bad person I am - you're not defending the bad record North Park has had in basketball the last six years are you?

A good way to deflect well earned criticism - sort of the non-denial denial - have you been watching "All the President's Men" lately?

Mr. B didn't deny anything, Dennis. Nor did he "deflect well-earned criticism", because your criticism of North Park basketball was not the object of his post. His intention was simply to defend me from your personal attack. In fact, far from being in denial, Mr. B has usually been the first one to come on CCIW Chat and announce the bad news following yet another NPU defeat.

[petemcb]

eeeeewwwww.  Crow breath.

[True Basketball Fan]

Anybody read about the lawsuit that the women's coach at Hamilton filed?  The men's coach got hired at 20,000 more dollars than what the women's coach is making after 6 years.  I wonder how many CCIW schools share this same story?  I have a feeling that it is more common than you think.

I'm staying neutral on this one for the time being, but I have a feeling that it possibly could bring up some major issues at other schools, especially if it continues to drag out.   

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

That is an interesting story to follow.  I will be curious to see how the investigation goes.  If it turns out to be institutional bias, that could be a big deal.

I'm all for free enterprise and getting someone to do the same work for less money, but you need to pay a decent wage and it certainly shouldn't be based on bias of any kind.


In any event, it certainly isn't a nice way to treat someone who has been such a large part of their basketball program for so long.

[David Collinge]

You two make me wistful for the warm, pleasant days of the argument over the war.  I don't know about anyone else, but I'm well and truly sick of being subjected to your Battling Bickersons act.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Do you have anything of interest to add to CCIW chat - or are you just here to share your warm and friendly disposition.

The ironic thing is that there is no sarcasm here, DC has such a warm and friendly disposition that even Prikkel has to acknoweldge it.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Plus, finally, I don't hide behind a monicker either.  My name is on every one of my posts.

I know Mr. B personally, and I can vouch for the fact that he has a very valid reason for using an alias for his Posting Up identity.

Or you could just click on his screen name and see what email address he's registered under.

[Pat Coleman]

Thanks for sharing - David.

Do you have anything of interest to add to CCIW chat - or are you just here to share your warm and friendly disposition.

I think this is getting a little out of character for this board, Dennis, don't you?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

C'mon Dennis.

Honestly, the only responses you got were in defense of David, not Sager.  You guys argue all you want; its kinda fun to read (although, I'll admit, I read very little of Sager's 907 word post).  I'm just not sure any of us took a side in that argument at all, we just came out in support of David when he aimlessly wandered into the crossfire.

[petemcb]

C'mon Dennis.

Honestly, the only responses you got were in defense of David, not Sager.  You guys argue all you want; its kinda fun to read (although, I'll admit, I read very little of Sager's 907 word post).  I'm just not sure any of us took a side in that argument at all, we just came out in support of David when he aimlessly wandered into the crossfire.

Call me a fool, but I'd rather read it than count it.....

[Pat Coleman]

Pat:

Please forgive me for disagreeing with you on the WIAC in D3 - I promise to never be on the right side of an arguement again if it disagrees with a stance you've taken - no matter how much I disagree with you.

Dennis:

Please, lose the chip on your shoulder. The WIAC is not at all what I am referring to, and you know this.

[diehardfan]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure enjoing the amusing irony that the Post Patterns CCIW board has soooo much more warm, levelheaded, cogent discussion than this board these days. In fact, a few of the other CCIW PP posters were just commenting on how any time they post here, they get smited so they avoid this board because it's such a scary place.

What ever happened to DIII basketball being a warm, happy, family atmosphere of intelligence, mutual respect and admiration? The reason we have always have visitors from so many other boards is because of the quality of the discussion here. The reason I used to enjoy posting here so much was the quality of the discussion here. I've had more than my fair share of behind the scene soap operas on this site, and I'd appreciate it if the level of actual board discussion would reflect well on our alma maters and the conference. If I wanted soap operas, I could get them from professional sports, fans, and atheletes, thank you very much.

Call me a fool, but I'd rather read it than count it.....

Hoopsfan actually didn't count. He did just cut-paste of the post in word... we were just teasing Greg on his verbosity on another board... 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Call me a fool, but I'd rather read it than count it.....

Hoopsfan actually didn't count. He did just cut-paste of the post in word... we were just teasing Greg on his verbosity on another board... 

Yeah, I'm either lazy, resourceful or a cheat, depending on how you look at it.