MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[cardinalpride]

petemcb,

The Carthage scrimmage against Aurora is next Friday, Nov. 10th at 6:30.

Then that makes me feel better about the hour and a half I spent in traffic on 355/53/88 to get from Arlington Heights to North Central for their game!

Two observations:

1)  I saw only one guard who looked like he'd be comfortable playing a CCIW season this year:  number 22.  Sorry, no programs were available. Maybe one of the NCC fans can identify him.  He was quick, picking up several steals with his quickness and good anticipation on some of the passes U of C floated out there.  He appears to be unselfish and content to play hard on the defensive end and unselfishly on the offensive end.  He kept his mouth shut, didn't mope, and looked like a nice guard for the vaunted front line to work with.

2)  Speaking of that vaunted front line, I wondered this before, and I still find myself wondering whether they are significantly better than Elmhurst's front line.  Krumtinger is a nice complementary player,  Simmons is the great all-round player we know him to be, and I've liked Walton for his entire career, but, at least last night, he seemed to have incorporated an unnecessary fadeaway that rimmed out a lot more often than in, as opposed to how I remember him going hard to the basket with a nice assortment of down-low moves.

Last night, I didn't see one other guard who looked like a contributor, much less a difference-maker at the CCIW level.  This summer, at the Prairie Lakes league in Des Plaines, I saw a couple of impressive games out of North Central's roughly 5'9" or 5'10" sweet-shooting freshman, but he got almost no time last night, particularly in the first two 20 minute periods that featured most of the anticipated players for this season.  Other than a brief cameo in the second period, he only got  time in the JV/third period.  That was disappointing.

Pete, #22 is senior guard Raymond Lawrence.  However, that's dissappointing news to hear the freshmen guards didn't play very well.  I'm also shocked to hear Walton didn't play well.  I'd heard he scored close to 30pts during the 1st two 20 min. halves.  IYO, How did U of C look during the scrimmage? 

[und63]

Whoa, that's a lot of kool-aid for this early in the morning!
[/quote]

Not if it is green, I prefer lime!

[Mr. Ypsi]

We saw the IWU scrimmage last night.  The Shirk will rock this year with excitement, even from the Geritol crowd.  There will be many pleasant surprises for all the "green" faithful and many unpleasant moments for the coaches who placed the Titans 5th in the CCIW race.
Granted, the opposition was nowhere near the CCIW caliber to be faced, but as a team I have never seen the movement, positioning, shooting ability and court awareness displayed by every player....in particular the sophomore-freshmen guard tandem I predict will be starting many games once the season starts.

Whoa, that's a lot of kool-aid for this early in the morning!

Just to annoy Greg!

1996: IWU 3rd in the country, graduated 4 starters, 1 junior star returning; 1997: national champions.
2006: IWU 3rd in the country, graduated 4 starters, 1 junior star returning; 2007: 

And petemcb accuses und63 of drinking the kool-aid!

[Just funnin' y'all! - but it COULD happen ]

[petemcb]

petemcb,

The Carthage scrimmage against Aurora is next Friday, Nov. 10th at 6:30.

Then that makes me feel better about the hour and a half I spent in traffic on 355/53/88 to get from Arlington Heights to North Central for their game!

Two observations:

1)  I saw only one guard who looked like he'd be comfortable playing a CCIW season this year:  number 22.  Sorry, no programs were available. Maybe one of the NCC fans can identify him.  He was quick, picking up several steals with his quickness and good anticipation on some of the passes U of C floated out there.  He appears to be unselfish and content to play hard on the defensive end and unselfishly on the offensive end.  He kept his mouth shut, didn't mope, and looked like a nice guard for the vaunted front line to work with.

2)  Speaking of that vaunted front line, I wondered this before, and I still find myself wondering whether they are significantly better than Elmhurst's front line.  Krumtinger is a nice complementary player,  Simmons is the great all-round player we know him to be, and I've liked Walton for his entire career, but, at least last night, he seemed to have incorporated an unnecessary fadeaway that rimmed out a lot more often than in, as opposed to how I remember him going hard to the basket with a nice assortment of down-low moves.

Last night, I didn't see one other guard who looked like a contributor, much less a difference-maker at the CCIW level.  This summer, at the Prairie Lakes league in Des Plaines, I saw a couple of impressive games out of North Central's roughly 5'9" or 5'10" sweet-shooting freshman, but he got almost no time last night, particularly in the first two 20 minute periods that featured most of the anticipated players for this season.  Other than a brief cameo in the second period, he only got  time in the JV/third period.  That was disappointing.

Pete, #22 is senior guard Raymond Lawrence.  However, that's dissappointing news to hear the freshmen guards didn't play very well.  I'm also shocked to hear Walton didn't play well.  I'd heard he scored close to 30pts during the 1st two 20 min. halves.  IYO, How did U of C look during the scrimmage? 

U of C looked like a bottom third CCIW team and, I'd guess, a top third UAA team.  They had a big (like maybe 6'8" or more) strong (maybe a cut 235-240 lbs.) guy in the middle who was OK but did a great job of occupying Simmons with pretty physical play.  That was part of what disappointed me with Walton's effort  -  Simmons was being kept busy outside of the paint, and Walton seemed content to fire up 15 foot fadeaways much of the evening.  I'm shocked if he had close to 30 points.

Jake Pancratz looked like he'll be a good D3 player.  As to previous posts wondering why he didn't go D1, he's probably not big enough or fast enough (and he's getting a world-class education while playing that D3 basketball).  He had a few rookie-type turnovers, moreso in the first period.  Part way through the second period, he started to look more comfortable and sunk 2 or 3 nice soft J's from the perimeter.  He'll be a nice player for them, and would probably grow into a nice CCIW player as well.

Other than that, and an sometimes awkard-looking but generally effective player who spent a lot of time on the wing (don't have a name or number)U of C looked like a bunch of scrappy UAA players who will probably all be consulting for a quarter million dollars a year faster than any of this year's freshman graduate. 

[cardinalpride]

petemcb,

The Carthage scrimmage against Aurora is next Friday, Nov. 10th at 6:30.

Then that makes me feel better about the hour and a half I spent in traffic on 355/53/88 to get from Arlington Heights to North Central for their game!

Two observations:

1)  I saw only one guard who looked like he'd be comfortable playing a CCIW season this year:  number 22.  Sorry, no programs were available. Maybe one of the NCC fans can identify him.  He was quick, picking up several steals with his quickness and good anticipation on some of the passes U of C floated out there.  He appears to be unselfish and content to play hard on the defensive end and unselfishly on the offensive end.  He kept his mouth shut, didn't mope, and looked like a nice guard for the vaunted front line to work with.

2)  Speaking of that vaunted front line, I wondered this before, and I still find myself wondering whether they are significantly better than Elmhurst's front line.  Krumtinger is a nice complementary player,  Simmons is the great all-round player we know him to be, and I've liked Walton for his entire career, but, at least last night, he seemed to have incorporated an unnecessary fadeaway that rimmed out a lot more often than in, as opposed to how I remember him going hard to the basket with a nice assortment of down-low moves.

Last night, I didn't see one other guard who looked like a contributor, much less a difference-maker at the CCIW level.  This summer, at the Prairie Lakes league in Des Plaines, I saw a couple of impressive games out of North Central's roughly 5'9" or 5'10" sweet-shooting freshman, but he got almost no time last night, particularly in the first two 20 minute periods that featured most of the anticipated players for this season.  Other than a brief cameo in the second period, he only got  time in the JV/third period.  That was disappointing.

Pete, #22 is senior guard Raymond Lawrence.  However, that's dissappointing news to hear the freshmen guards didn't play very well.  I'm also shocked to hear Walton didn't play well.  I'd heard he scored close to 30pts during the 1st two 20 min. halves.  IYO, How did U of C look during the scrimmage? 

U of C looked like a bottom third CCIW team and, I'd guess, a top third UAA team.  They had a big (like maybe 6'8" or more) strong (maybe a cut 235-240 lbs.) guy in the middle who was OK but did a great job of occupying Simmons with pretty physical play.  That was part of what disappointed me with Walton's effort  -  Simmons was being kept busy outside of the paint, and Walton seemed content to fire up 15 foot fadeaways much of the evening.  I'm shocked if he had close to 30 points.

Jake Pancratz looked like he'll be a good D3 player.  As to previous posts wondering why he didn't go D1, he's probably not big enough or fast enough (and he's getting a world-class education while playing that D3 basketball).  He had a few rookie-type turnovers, moreso in the first period.  Part way through the second period, he started to look more comfortable and sunk 2 or 3 nice soft J's from the perimeter.  He'll be a nice player for them, and would probably grow into a nice CCIW player as well.

Other than that, and an sometimes awkard-looking but generally effective player who spent a lot of time on the wing (don't have a name or number)U of C looked like a bunch of scrappy UAA players who will probably all be consulting for a quarter million dollars a year faster than any of this year's freshman graduate. 

Thanks Pete for your observation.

[David Collinge]

U of C looked like a bottom third CCIW team and, I'd guess, a top third UAA team. 

Are you suggesting that the contending teams in the UAA, teams like Rochester, Wash U., and Chicago, would be second-division teams in the CCIW?  That's quite a statement. 

[Titan Q]

Most years, the UAA's best team is on par with the CCIW's best.  The recent Rochester Final Four teams were obviously outstanding, as were the Wash U teams with Chris Jeffries.  There were the Chicago teams with Derek Reich, as well as the tough Pat Cunningham-led Chicago squads of the late '90's. 

Last year I think the CCIW had 4 teams better than the best UAA team (Carnegie Mellon), but the CCIW was incredibly strong at the top with Augustana, IWU, North Central, and Elmhurst, while the UAA - at the very top - was down in my estimation.  I am not sure who is favored to win the UAA this year, but knowing what they have returning, I think Wash U would be right in the middle of the CCIW contention picture.  (I think Wash U is going to be very tough this year.)  They'd probably be picked 2nd or 3rd in the preseason coaches poll.  

Where the CCIW is a better league is in the depth, year-in and year-out.  Most years the CCIW's 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. place teams are better than their standings counterparts in the UAA.  That is not always true, but I'd say more years than not it is.

I have no idea where the 2006-07 U. of Chicago Maroons stack up vs the top CCIW contenders.  Chicago, while doing OK in the UAA the last few years (and playing plenty of good teams close), really hasn't been a Top 25-type team since Reich graduated.  Maybe Pancratz is that next great Chicago player and someone who can put them back in the national spotlight. 

Chicago hosts Wheaton Nov. 29 and travels to IWU Dec. 16.  Wash U plays at Augustana Nov. 26 and at IWU Dec. 9.  We'll get a few CCIW/UAA matchups in the non-conference season.

[mr_b]

Did anyone go to the North Park scrimmage on Saturday?

[Titan Q]

Mr. B, this from a UW-Whitewater poster on the WIAC board.  Sounds like North Park played right with the #4 ranked Warhawks...

Greg,

Here's my thoughts on North Park

The point guard is very good.  I understand he's a JuCo transfer and he should help your team.  He's very quick, handled the ball against pressure pretty well and he can penetrate making some nice passes to your post players.  One post player was a load to handle.  I don't know his name but he's about 6'3-4" and a wide body.  He was the frequent benefactor of your point guard's penetration assists and was very physical.  Very soft touch around the basket.  Those were the two that impressed me the most.  As a whole the team looks athletic.  They shot pretty well from the perimeter.  One of the subs (#11) had a good three point shot.  They didn't seem very tall and depth may be an issue.  Defensively they had some problems handling our size but were pretty aggressive and forced their share of turnovers.

I don't really know your league that well so it's hard for me to project how they might finish.     

The WARHAWKS won the scrimmage but only by 7 points.  In the first half North Park led most all of the way and were up 7 with 3 1/2 minutes remaining.  But we forced some turnovers, you missed some  shots and we ended up winning by 3 points.  The second half was the opposite.  We got up by 11 and held a 7 point lead with about 2 1/2 minutes left but had three straight possessions that resulted in 4 missed free throws and a turnover so you guys caught up and trailed by two.  Fortunately we made a pair of free throws to conclude the scoring, winning the half by 4 points.

Your subs waxed ours in the third 20 minute period. 

If you were looking for something more specific give me an idea and I'll try to address it.   

Good luck on the season.

[mr_b]

Mr. B, this from a UW-Whitewater poster on the WIAC board.  Sounds like North Park played right with the #4 ranked Warhawks...

Greg,

Here's my thoughts on North Park

The point guard is very good.  I understand he's a JuCo transfer and he should help your team.  He's very quick, handled the ball against pressure pretty well and he can penetrate making some nice passes to your post players.  One post player was a load to handle.  I don't know his name but he's about 6'3-4" and a wide body.  He was the frequent benefactor of your point guard's penetration assists and was very physical.  Very soft touch around the basket.  Those were the two that impressed me the most.  As a whole the team looks athletic.  They shot pretty well from the perimeter.  One of the subs (#11) had a good three point shot.  They didn't seem very tall and depth may be an issue.  Defensively they had some problems handling our size but were pretty aggressive and forced their share of turnovers.

I don't really know your league that well so it's hard for me to project how they might finish.     

The WARHAWKS won the scrimmage but only by 7 points.  In the first half North Park led most all of the way and were up 7 with 3 1/2 minutes remaining.  But we forced some turnovers, you missed some  shots and we ended up winning by 3 points.  The second half was the opposite.  We got up by 11 and held a 7 point lead with about 2 1/2 minutes left but had three straight possessions that resulted in 4 missed free throws and a turnover so you guys caught up and trailed by two.  Fortunately we made a pair of free throws to conclude the scoring, winning the half by 4 points.

Your subs waxed ours in the third 20 minute period. 

If you were looking for something more specific give me an idea and I'll try to address it.   

Good luck on the season.

Thanks for passing this along.  I was checking the WIAC board but guess I overlooked this one.  I hope the Vikes can put a more competitive team on the floor this year!!

[Knightstalker]

Is it considered acceptable taunting of University of Chicago players to shout out; "What a Maroon!"?

[John Gleich]

Titan Q,

Much like UW Oshkosh last year, I feel that Whitewater's rating is inflated.  I know they've got a lot of players back, especially in the front line, a lot of the same questions being asked by North Central are going to be asked at Whitewater... who (or how) will the perimeter compare to last year?  Gio Riley is a returning veteran, but he's not a terribly serious outside threat.  They were the pick in the WIAC (recieving 7/9 1st place votes), but, in the last 6 seasons, only three of those seasons have had a sole conference champion (co-champs twice, tri-champs once), and only one of the remaining 3 did the winner have a lead of more than one game (UWSP in 2003, ironically Point's best regular season record in the past 7 years but the year BEFORE the national championships).  The other two years, the champion (UWW last year and UW River Falls in 2004) had to win the last game of the year to clinch, and both teams won by just three points (UWW in double OT).  ... In other words, more often than not the top team in the WIAC is just marginally better than the other conference teams.

I just think back to the first round game that Whitewater played last year in the NCAA's.  It was the only game of theirs that I saw, but they barely squeaked by in their first game tournament game against DePauw, and really weren't playing with a whole lot of intensity IMO.  I didn't see the game the next night against IWU, but it didn't sound like they made an incredible showing that night either.

EDIT:  All of that said... it sounds like a good showing by the Vikings!

[tjcummingsfan]

Thanks for the report on NP.  It makes me cautiously optimstic.  I remember in the past just getting smoked by UWW in thse scrimmages, so the fact that we stayed with them is very comforting.  I can't wait to get a look at the team myself.

[Gregory Sager]

Starting lineup included Brian Schlemm, Milos Vukosavljevic, Bill Shemerdiak, Billy Jacklin and Joe Higgins.  Trey Bowens is out with a minor injury (should be back next week) and Higgins only played about 5 minutes total as he was ill.   Would have liked to seen Bowens with the starters (not sure who would have started between Jacklin and Shemerdiak) and some more time for Higgins. 

Schlemm and Milos (sticking with the first name)

I wonder if John Weiser is going to do the same thing, K-Mark? Poor John; between "Neb Franciskovic", "Bill Shemerdiak", and "Milos Vukosavljevic", his tongue is going to be in knots by Christmas. 

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of another player who is back in uniform, spot-starter Jay Brizzolara #43, who played for Elmhurst in 04-05 is back.  Last year Elmhurst was missing that spark plug off the bench who could get under peoples skin, grab a few boards and bang around the opponents big men.  He was a 6'3" player who acted like he was 6'8".  If EC can get him to give them 10 minutes a game, he could return to that player who took Simmons out of both games against EC that season (EC won both games), or who knows could play some SF if Strempf struggles.
Should be a great season, lets hope the CCIW tourney is in the suburbs this year.

Elmhurst's roster isn't online yet, so I didn't realize that Brizzolara was back. You're right; he could be a nice role player for the Bluejays this year coming off the bench.