MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

What's up with Korte Long from Millikin? Last night he plays 21 minutes against Illinois College (almost all of that in the first half), goes 0-3 from the field, 0-3 from the line, and three rebounds. From looking at the play-by-play line, it didn't appear that he played much (if any) of the last 16-17 minutes of the game. For someone with his size and ability, he should be getting a double-double every night. Maybe he was hurt or was under the weather. They were down 22 when he sat down early in the second half - maybe that had something to do with it. I've seen him play when he was flat out dominating. Other times, he looks like he's just going through the motions. Has to driving Coach Littrell nuts...

Mac----

Good question. I'm wondering the same thing myself. I was very impressed with Long's play last season. So much so, in fact, that just prior to the start of this season, I posted that I expected he would be an all conference (prob 2nd team) selection this year.

Maybe the Big Blue fans here can shed some light on the situation concerning Mr. Long.

[mactitan]

Oh, the ups and downs of the non-con schedule.  There is a lot to get used to with this Titan team.  I was encouraged by the results in Wisconsin, and ready for a championship run.  Now I'm wondering if we'll be .500  Overeacting to wins and losses is part of the fun of being a fan, but...

I was really discouraged by what I saw last Saturday.  Granted, Wash U looked sharp. They were crisp and efficient on offense and tenacious on defense.  Ruths is a very good player, he battled hard for a lot of offensive rebounds.  And their outside shooting was superb.  It seemed like every time IWU tried to make a run, they squashed it with a big shot.  There is no shame in losing to a good team, but what bothered me was the apparent lack of intensity. 

I know some players keep their emotions on the inside, but Darius Grant was the only guy I saw with any intensity until the last five minutes of the game - and then it was too late.  And the fans were no better.  I wondered sometimes if people thought they were at a tennis match.  The student section was too busy heckling a senior that averaged a point a game to actually cheer and get some excitement going. 

Maybe it is a lack of depth - maybe the coach is still learning about his team - maybe guys are just trying to figure out their roles with the loss of such great seniors - maybe it was me misreading things, but I left the game feeling cheated out of $12 (my wife came too).  Oh, and I know its been said here before, but Zach Freeman is a great offensive weapon.  I felt like he needed to touch the ball more, but the guards just couldn't get it done.

[mactitan]

Man, I just re-read my post and it is really negative.  I am still excited about this team.  And I'm even more excited about living in the area again so I can get to more games.  There is a lot of talent there, and it is really early.  I think they are going through a lot of the same things Illinois is.  Guys like Dauksas and Keelan are not easy to replace.  It is going to take some time for guys to step into leadership roles and become the "go-to" guys.  Once some of these guys start hitting some big shots in key times, then they will start coming easier. 

This team is still 5-3. They have beaten some pretty good teams, and the tournament is in March, not December.  I'm looking forward to seeing them grow and develop and (I think) contend in the CCIW. 

[mactitan]

Oh, and by the way - I'm the original Mac.

[OurHouse]

Oh, and by the way - I'm the original Mac.

MAC: i said already what you said in your previous post - intensity, drive and the desire to WIN....i said before the one guard that is injured needs to be in the game to give them added boost and desire but he is no good in a boot.

As for the other guys, the Freemans need desire regardless of their talent - the shooting #1/#2 guards need to move their feet and the coach needs to use his bench regardless of their talent - ever since the freshman guard got injured (post Thanksgiving Championship) this team has suffered! Just the way I see it....

[TitanBacker]

Oh, and by the way - I'm the original Mac.

MAC: i said already what you said in your previous post - intensity, drive and the desire to WIN....i said before the one guard that is injured needs to be in the game to give them added boost and desire but he is no good in a boot.

As for the other guys, the Freemans need desire regardless of their talent - the shooting #1/#2 guards need to move their feet and the coach needs to use his bench regardless of their talent - ever since the freshman guard got injured (post Thanksgiving Championship) this team has suffered! Just the way I see it....

OurHouse-

What do you define desire as?  I know the Freemans are personally motivated and have been ever since I've seen them play at Normal Community.  They may not be the fist pumping and yelling types (which i don't believe they are), but they have a desire to win.  Andrew needs to get used to playing big minutes and Zach needs to adjust a little more and learn that this is HIS team now, not the team of Dauksas or Keelan. 

When Sean Swyer comes back, I agree this team will get the help it needs.

Q-

The question has been raised before but I dont' know if you've answered.  Do you know if Rose plans on using JV players in games to 1) get them experience and 2) spell the starters and bench for short periods?

[Titan Q]

Q-

The question has been raised before but I dont' know if you've answered.  Do you know if Rose plans on using JV players in games to 1) get them experience and 2) spell the starters and bench for short periods?

Backer, sorry if I missed something you previously asked.

IWU's JV players -- the guys not in the rotation now - are just not good enough.  The best freshman (Sean Dwyer) will be in the varsity rotation when back from injury and the best sophomores are all in the varsity rotation (Gilmore, Chamernik, Morris, Gunnell...I believe he is going to get a varsity look).  There really isn't anyone on the JV team good enough to help.

When you ask this question, I assume you are referring to IWU needing some low post help off the bench (which the Titans desperately do).  But realize, there is not a young Cory Jones or Steve Schweer or Andy Boyden or Brent Niebrugge on the JV team.  In fact, there is not really even a single post player on the JV team.  Now, the better question is probably, "Do you think Ron Rose should play Brett Chamernik and Jason Bloom more?"  Bloom is just coming off that stress fracture injury, so I am not quite sure he is ready.  As far as Chamernik, Ron probably does have to give him more minutes to give Z. Freeman more rest.  But the problem with these two is that Bloom is a natural 3 and Chamernik an undersized 4.  It is hard to ask them - both 6-5 - to come in and play with their back to the basket offensively and then guard a 6-7 Troy Ruths or a 6-9 Brent Ruch or a 6-9 Dain Swetella on the other end.  This is where the season-ending injury to Brian Nussbaum really hurt -- Brian could have given nice minutes off the bench in the low post.

The injury to freshman point-guard Sean Dwyer hurt more than the casual observer would realize.  It really weakened was was already a thin rotation and it took away the team's best ball-handler and floor general.  There is a very good chance Dwyer would have been starting by now.  The good news is that Sean is doing very well and on pace to be back on the floor near the beginnnig of the CCIW schedule.  IWU opens at home vs Carthage 1/6 and Millikin 1/10 -- Dwyer could be ready by the Millikin game from what I hear.

[Titan Q]

Over and over again, Ron refers to his squad as "a work in progress" when talking to the media.  It really is just that.  This Titan team has potential because of how ridiculously good Zach Freeman is and the potential of guys like Andrew Freeman, Darius Gant, Andrew Gilmore, Mike Harrigan, and Sean Dwyer have.  But those 5 guys I just mentioned are not only just getting used to playing together, they are getting used to playing, period. 

In 2003-04 the Titans had that brand-new cast of Amelianovich, Fisher, Jones, Jones, Schweer, etc joining returning starter Dauksas.  Those guys struggled to find an identity early and I remember how thoroughly Hanover beat them up at the Shirk Center in December -- in fact, it looked just like the Wash U game Saturday.  By March, that Titan squad - which won the CCIW - defeated the same Hanover team on their floor in the tournament. 

The year before, 2002-03, IWU got soundly defeated at home in December by Wash U.  Again, by March IWU was a much better basketball team -- they won the CCIW and defeated the same Wash U team in St. Louis in the tournament. 

This team does not have the talent, top to bottom, those IWU teams did -- not even close really -- but my point is simply that you can't make a final decision on a team this early.  Those of us at the Shirk Center in December 2002 and December 2003 to witness those Wash U and Hanover games mentioned above would have never guessed IWU could even play with those teams, let alone beat them.  But what happened in between meetings?  Role definition, confidence, team chemistry, player-coach trust, etc, etc.  These things are playing out on basketball teams at every level all over the country.

My guess is that by mid-January IWU will be a good team and play everybody in the league tough.  Whether they can really contend for the CCIW title is to be determined though.  As a fan, you are just looking for game-by-game improvement at this point.  

[Late nite]

A road win against a mediocre Cornell team is encouraging for a number of reasons---Despite the fact that the Vikes got only 5 minutes and no points from Dain, 6 points and 1 rebound from Nate and 1-8 shooting from Brusveen, three of their offensive options, Augie still found a way to win---As I stated before, this team has a lot of depth and veteran guard leadership---Not pretty, but still 7-1

[Jim Matson]

From the NW web-site...note the nice comment about the CCIW.

About The Thunder

Wheaton (5-2) is ranked 24th in the latest D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll. They have won three straight games and are coming off an impressive 112-52 win over Principia on Dec. 6.

The Thunder play in the College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin, one of the nation's top Division III basketball leagues. The CCIW includes Augustana College, Carthage College, Elmhurst College, North Central University, Illinois Wesleyan University, North Park University and Millikin University.

Kent Raymond leads the Thunder in scoring this season with 21.7 ppg, followed by David Eseke who is second with 17.0 ppg. Andy Wiele is Wheaton's leading rebounder at 8.0 rpg.

This year marks Bill Harris' 16th season at the helm at Wheaton. He has the highest winning percentage in the program's history. Since Harris assumed the reins of the basketball program in 1991, Wheaton has won more than 250 games. Harris has more 20-win seasons than any coach in school history and has led Wheaton to two conference titles and four NCAA playoff appearances. He was named NCAA Division III National "Coach of the Year" by Basketball Times in 1996 and won the Illinois Basketball Coaches' Association "Coach of the Year" award in 1999.

[augiefan]

Given Bill Carmody's Princeton style offense and the inexperience on this year's NU team, I will be surprised if Wheaton loses by much more than low double digits at Evanston tomorrow night. I'll go with 54-44 NU.

[augiefan]

I hope one of the QC Augie fans can provide an update on the condition of Oliver Rorer and when more info is available Dain Swetalla. Is Rorer out for the season? I think it was suggested that he had broken his arm, which I assume means he's done for the year.

Hopefully, Swetalla has only an ankle sprain. Augie has a pretty light schedule for the balance of December, so it will allow some time for the walking wounded to get healthy, before starting the all important conference schedule in January.

[dansand]

I hope one of the QC Augie fans can provide an update on the condition of Oliver Rorer and when more info is available Dain Swetalla. Is Rorer out for the season? I think it was suggested that he had broken his arm, which I assume means he's done for the year.

Hopefully, Swetalla has only an ankle sprain. Augie has a pretty light schedule for the balance of December, so it will allow some time for the walking wounded to get healthy, before starting the all important conference schedule in January.

Well, here's what little I know. Oliver's injury was a broken pinky (left hand, I think). The paper said they had to put pins in it and he was to have it re-checked last Friday, I believe. I don't know what the verdict was, but originally I think they said it could be 6-8 weeks, meaning a return early-to-mid CCIW schedule.

As far as Dain goes, the paper this morning said his status for Sunday's game against Wartburg was uncertain, but Coach G said he was concerned considering he missed five weeks with last year's ankle injury (I'm assuming it's the same ankle).

[Titan Q]

The Wheaton/NU game will be carried on WGN Radio, AM-720.  I just pray Ron Santo is not part of the broadcast crew. 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,

The other thing about the NP/NW game that you mention is that Northwestern was undefeated at least through that game and if I remember correctly (which is less and less these days) didn't lose in their non-conference schedule.  The 11 point win was the closest game NW had until that point.  Pretty low scoring game I recall.

I should point out that North Park did beat Northwestern in soccer in the early 80's.  For those of you who care.....

Didn't one of your Vikings sides beat Notre Dame as well, Joe?

Good job of recalling that long-ago game by you, Mark, and Dennis. And, uh, me too. I looked it up on the Northwestern website -- NU won the game, 68-57, and it was indeed the first game of the year for the Wildcats. Joe, you were almost 100% dead on about the strength of that Wildcats team; they won their first nine games of the year, and the only non-Big Ten teams that beat them in 1982-83 were UC-Santa Barbara in the season's tenth game and DePaul in the second round of the NIT. That Wildcats team went 18-12 under Rich Falk. It was (and still is) the winningest team in Northwestern history, and the Wildcats haven't even come close to having a record that good since. In fact, the only three winning seasons posted by the purple and white since 1982-83 were the 1993-94 team under Ricky Byrdsong (15-14), the 1998-99 team under Kevin O'Neill (also 15-14), and the 2001-02 team under Bill Carmody (16-13). By contrast, the early '90s Northwestern teams that played Illinois Wesleyan in the three games Bob mentioned posted a grand total of 23 wins and 61 losses.

The D1 series I remember best is the string of games that North Park played against UIC in season openers back in the '80s under Bosko. I'll have to look up the results of those games in the NPU recordbook when I get home. The Vikings weren't competitive in a couple of them, but in several of them they made the game quite close. I can remember coming home from the UIC Pavilion in somebody's car one night after the Vikings had lost by three or so points, and the Flames postgame show was on the car radio. One of the UIC players was being interviewed, and he said something like, "We figured that since we were playing a D3 team we'd be able to do whatever we wanted. In the locker room we were all talking junk about how many points each of us was going to have, and who was going to put down the best dunks. We got totally surprised. Those North Park boys can play some ball."

I doubt that Bill Carmody's players will be that cocky tomorrow night, but it'd still be nice to see Wheaton put some surprised looks on the faces of the Wildcats.