MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

And just think what might easily have been - one more 3-pointer and it would probaly have been the national lead story!

And that would certainly seem to have been doable, since Wheaton missed 15 of 18 3's - when's the last time Raymond went 0-6 from the arc?!

[thunderwearer]

So, here are a couple of points from my perspective about last nights game.

First, I am one of those alumni that has not gone to any Wheaton games this year, but jumped at the opportunity to see the Thunder play NU.  I can completely understand why there were so many wheaton fans at the game.  Most NU fans see Wheaton on the schedule and have zero interest in seeing this game.  However, this game had so much more meaning for Wheaton and their fans.  Also, to say that the mix was 50-50 IMO was more 65-35 in favor of Wheaton fans, especially as far as volume went.

Second, I want to give Bill Harris alot of credit for this "moral" victory.  His players were very well coached and did a great job playing out his game plan.  Wheaton purposfuly slowed the game down, as there were several situations where wheaton could have pressed the tempo and Wheaton held back and played the style of game they wanted.  Also, NU helped with this playing a high 1-3-1 zone.  I was very surprised when NU went to a man on man defense, and shockingly enough I thought Wheaton had a bit of an advantage when NU went to a man defense.

Third, the clock malfunction I think did a lot to frustrate the Thunder for the last play.  NU missed the FT and wheaton started to bring the ball up and the clock just didn't start.  That totally screwed up the flow of the last possesion and also cost the Thunder about 1.2 seconds of game time, which could have proved useful.

Lastly, it was fairly sureal to look on espn and see an ap report on a Wheaton game and the near upset even made it to local radio station (101.9 wtmx) news segment.  All in all, eventhough Wheaton gets an L in the record book, this was as good of a loss as you can have and Wheaton did a fantastic job of representing D3, the CCIW, and Wheaton College.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

They missed 15 threes?  So what I'm hearing here is that Wheaton, on an average night, would have been able to handle Northwestern?

[Mr. Ypsi]

They missed 15 threes?  So what I'm hearing here is that Wheaton, on an average night, would have been able to handle Northwestern?

Mind you, I wasn't there, but from the box score and the reports, so it would seem.  (On the flip side, maybe "an average night" wouldn't have meant Wheaton outrebounded them 36-19?!)

[Mugsy]

They missed 15 threes?  So what I'm hearing here is that Wheaton, on an average night, would have been able to handle Northwestern?

Umm... not necessarily.    One could easily make the argument that Wheaton's cold shooting was a function of the defense played by Northwestern.

Plus it is very likely that Northwestern had a very off, uninspired night as well.  Wheaton definitely had chances to win this one.

Personally I view this loss as a function of the 18 turnovers, as much as the missed 3's.

[Jim Matson]

As to Greg's point, there were plenty of folks at that game who don't go many regular home games at Wheaton.  It was just a big event, not unlike post-season play.

I would also concur with Mugsy, that Northwestern's defense had a lot to do with Wheaton poor shooting.  A lot of shots were taken as the shot clock was winding down and thus were hurried.  Also, there is no doubt that the Wildcats did not have a good night.

[augiefan]

One key point to note is that Wheaton got the ball in to Raymond when the clock malfunctioned and stopped play. After the clock was fixed, NU denied Raymond the ball. I truly think Raymond would have either gotten a good shot off or would have been fouled, so the clock malfunction had a major impact on the final seconds. Everyone supporting Wheaton would have like to have Raymond take the money shot at the end.

[Gregory Sager]

First, I am one of those alumni that has not gone to any Wheaton games this year, but jumped at the opportunity to see the Thunder play NU.  I can completely understand why there were so many wheaton fans at the game.  Most NU fans see Wheaton on the schedule and have zero interest in seeing this game.  However, this game had so much more meaning for Wheaton and their fans.

As to Greg's point, there were plenty of folks at that game who don't go many regular home games at Wheaton.  It was just a big event, not unlike post-season play.

You two are just begging the question, though: Why doesn't Wheaton get more support for its other games? Where were all of these people during the Pfund (which had a pretty good field of teams this year), or for so many CCIW games in recent years in which the Wheaton turnout has not been what it should be? Why haven't those games had "so much more meaning for Wheaton fans"? Why can all the Wheaton fans who normally travel to road games fit into two SUVs, with seats left over?

I'm not trying to browbeat or shame any one person in particular, so please don't take this personally. Nor am I exercising my natural reflex as a Parker to niggle about the foibles of Wheaties.  The reason why I bring this up is because Bill Harris and his program deserve better than the treatment they typically get from the larger part of the Wheaton constituency -- and by that I mean alumni, staff, and assorted other friends of the college, not just the students. Bill Harris has built one of the most outstanding programs in D3 during his decade-and-a-half tenure. His teams are always the best-conditioned in the league, frequently the smartest, and even when they aren't quite up to snuff in terms of matching an opponent's skill level or athletic ability they almost always make up for their deficiencies with sheer effort. Wheaton has almost always fielded a successful team under Harris, and his teams play an entertaining style of basketball that any fan should enjoy watching. Wheaton should be very proud of its men's basketball program.

Heck, I would've given my eyeteeth to have seen North Park put teams on the floor over the past dozen years that had both Wheaton's talent and Wheaton's desire, not to mention Wheaton's success. If I was a fan of the blue and orange, I'd be angry over the fact that Wheaton people came out of the woodwork to see my team play on this one occasion only because it was in a Big Ten arena against a Big Ten foe. That smacks of a bit of an insult to Harris, his staff, and his players.

He and his assistants and players are entitled to a lot more support from the Wheaton College community than they get. Sorry, I know you're not going to take this screed very well since it comes from an NPU fan, but that's the way I feel. I have too much respect for Bill Harris and the players he's coached over the years to let this slide.

[Titan Q]

Listening to the WGN broadcast, I would have thought the game was at King Arena if I didn't know differently.  When Wheaton scored or grabbed a rebound or was fouled, the crowd noise was amazing.  You couldn't hear anything on Northwestern's side.  It was like that Bears/Rams Monday Night game this week in St. Louis, which must have been 80% Chicago fans based on crowd reaction.

While listening, I wondered if it was just the positioning the the crowd mics that created the noise disparity.  It really was noticeable.

[Titan Q]

Getting good 3-point looks is very difficult against a good Division I team.  One of the biggest differences between Division I and Division III is the quickness at the guard spots.  I'd guess that is most of the reason for Wheaton's 3-18 3-pt shooting and point-guard Kent Raymond's 2 assits to 8 turnovers.

Here is the boxscore from IWU's exhibition vs U. of Illinois last year:

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ill-iwu.htm

The Titans were 6-18 from beyond the arc and there just were not many clean looks vs Dee Brown, Rich McBride, Brian Randle, and the Illini's other perimeter defenders.

Earlier this year, Wash U was 3-21 from 3 vs Southern Illinois, a really good Missouri Valley team that plays nasty defense.  The D3 Bears had 3 assists and 25 turnovers.

http://siusalukis.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2006-2007/siu1.html

Versus Division III teams this year Wash U is shooting .436 from 3 and has a team A:T.O ratio of 1.7. 


It is just a lot different when you are playing against that caliber athlete.  For all of us who speculate if the Korey Coon's, Ryan Knuppel's, and Rick Harrigan's of Division III - to use a few former CCIW All-American shooters as examples - could have played Division I, you have to consider how differently they'd be defended at that level.  It is a lot harder to a) get open and, b) get a shot off.

[OurHouse]

6-5 freshman guard Paul Bayer (Lehigh) is transfering to Olivet Nazarene.  Bayer was a big-time player at Moline H.S. -- I wonder if he considered Augustana in the transfer process??

http://www.lehighsports.com/sports/mbball/rosters/displayPlayer.asp?PLAYER_ID=2328

I saw Paul Bayer play several times his senior year while at Moline - he is a good shooter but needed more fundamentals like, boxing out, going to the hoop off the ball and his feet needed to be quicker - in my opinion, Paul is not a show stopper but as a good shooter will help a lousy Olivet team....

[Jim Matson]

Bob, your theory is exactly what I thought I saw being proven last night.  Good point.  It didn't help that after NU went to man, Wheaton couldn't get anything inside...

Greg, I take no offense.  Wheaton ought to draw bigger crowds.  Last night's game showed what Wheaton fans can bring to the table.  It was loud.

Anyone care to comment on how WGN called the game?  Were they complete homers or did Wheaton get "some" credit.  And by the way, last I checked, Wheaton is only slightly farther from the Loop than is Northwestern.  I would WGN would have talked about the local flavor to this game.

And finally, I was surprised to see the habit of Wheaton's postgame prayer continuing with Northwestern.  It was OK to see that!

[Gregory Sager]

Anyone care to comment on how WGN called the game?  Were they complete homers or did Wheaton get "some" credit.

WGN-AM Sports Director Dave Eanet is a member of NU's Athletic Hall of Fame. His nickname is "Mr. Cat". I've never listened to any of his NU football or basketball broadcasts, but I'm guessing that he's a homer in how he calls the game, but a fair and even-handed one in terms of describing it. Am I right?

[Titan Q]

The WGN team did a nice job.  Dave Eanet and David Kaplan - the regular Northwestern broadcast team - was clearly pro-Wildcats, but they were fair to Wheaton and gave the Thunder a lot of credit. 

I have always liked Kaplan a lot and I think the Sports Central show he hosts with Tom Waddle & Co. is the best sportstalk show in Chicago.  I've just always favored those guys over anything on The Score or AM-1000.  Kaplan is a Division III graduate (Hamline) and he mentioned that during the broadcast.  You could tell he respected D3.

[Gregory Sager]

The WGN team did a nice job.  Dave Eanet and David Kaplan - the regular Northwestern broadcast team - was clearly pro-Wildcats, but they were fair to Wheaton and gave the Thunder a lot of credit. 

I have always liked Kaplan a lot and I think the Sports Central show he hosts with Tom Waddle & Co. is the best sportstalk show in Chicago.  I've just always favored those guys over anything on The Score or AM-1000.  Kaplan is a Division III graduate (Hamline) and he mentioned that during the broadcast.  You could tell he respected D3.

I completely agree with you about Kaplan and Waddle, but I'm a little surprised to hear that you can tolerate a sportstalk duo that spends so much of their time talking about the Cubs.