MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

This is a few weeks old now, but I just stumbled across it -- from the Carthage/Lawrence game.

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061217/APC0201/612170509/1892


APPLETON — Now that the Lawrence University men's basketball team is consistently in the Division III upper crust, or at least in its Top 25 polls, the Vikings are learning something about this neighborhood.

To be among the bigs, you have to play big, as in wide and physical.

That point was made again in LU's 93-86 double-overtime loss to Carthage at Alexander Gym on Saturday. The Red Men (6-1), ranked 25th in the latest d3hoops.com poll, reminded some of Illinois Wesleyan — the fellow College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin school that knocked the Vikings out of the NCAA Tournament last March.

"You could tell what conference (Carthage) came from," said LU junior Andy Hurley, who had 17 points and 12 rebounds Saturday.

While the Vikings' loss turned as much on their loss of a 12-point lead with seven minutes left as in the physical matchups, Carthage's bulk did play a role.

"We got tired," LU coach John Tharp said. "We didn't use the bench like we needed to use the bench."

The CCIW is similar to the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, as each league features many schools that have strong inside players throughout the conference. Each league is also regarded as among the top Division III basketball conferences in the nation, and are the rare leagues that have a winning record against LU over the past four seasons.

Heading into Monday's game at the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh, the Vikings are 4-6 against those two conferences since the 2003-04 season. LU is 69-8 against everyone else.

"You look at (Illinois) Wesleyan and Augustana and North Central and Wheaton and all the other schools we have, you know it's a battle every night," Carthage coach Bosko Djurickovic said.

[sac]

I'm so glad TitanQ has joined me on the Carthage bandwagon..........plenty of room everyone.  Plenty of room.

[Gregory Sager]

Vince Brock is going to continue to get better as the season goes on.  His shooting will come around because remember, he has not played organized basketball in the past few years because he has been overseas in Iraq fighting for our country.  Hopefully we can get back on track at the Shirk on Wednesday. 

Brock's still on some form of active duty. He left the locker room at NPU in full Army uniform. In fact, I was told that he needs to get the OK from his commanding officer just to play basketball games. Going to school full-time, playing basketball, and still in the service -- I don't know how the heck Brock does it, but he's certainly earned my respect.

[Gregory Sager]

EC meanwhile has 4 bail out guys led by Brian Lee who has to be the quickest player in the league.  He schredded Augie with 24 and 5-6 layups.  That is great news as foot speed has been something that CCIW point guards have historically lacked. 

Evidently you are overlooking Adam Teising last year's graduated point guard for North Central. He was faster with the ball than most players are without it! Faster for sure than Brian Lee is. Teising, who was a sprinter in HS, was the D3 version of Dee Brown on the dribble. 

Agreed, and I can think of plenty of CCIW point guards besides Teising and Lee that have had decent foot speed. Everything's relative, so one could say that CCIW PGs have "historically lacked" foot speed when compared to, say, PGs on the scholarship levels -- but in D3 terms, the CCIW has had more than its share of quick guys running the point over the years.

[markerickson]

I guess I have to thank Brock for, in gobigblue's words, "fighting for our country."  I'm so much safer now.

BTW:  My brother-in-law left on 1/3 for his second stint.  Best case scenario is that he returns to his five kids and my sister one year from now.

[diehardfan]

I guess I have to thank Brock for, in gobigblue's words, "fighting for our country."  I'm so much safer now.

BTW:  My brother-in-law left on 1/3 for his second stint.  Best case scenario is that he returns to his five kids and my sister one year from now.

I'm personally glad that the fastest guard in the CCIW is on our side.

Mark, obviously it sucks that your brother is being deployed again already... and it sucks that my cousin missed Christmas with his family and won't be back for months... but exactly why is discounting Vincent Brock's service to our country in any way necessary? It's one thing to be opposed to the war, and another to degrade the obviously real sacrifices that everyone in military service makes at some point during their career in the military.... and uh.... I thought we weren't going to talk about this on the board anymore. 

Incidentally, on a completely different note, congrats to my "Elmhurst namesake" Brian Lee for his CCIW POW honors!

[devildog29]

I'm personally glad that the fastest guard in the CCIW is on our side.

Mark, obviously it sucks that your brother is being deployed again already... and it sucks that my cousin missed Christmas with his family and won't be back for months... but exactly why is discounting Vincent Brock's service to our country in any way necessary? It's one thing to be opposed to the war, and another to degrade the obviously real sacrifices that everyone in military service makes at some point during their career in the military.... and uh.... I thought we weren't going to talk about this on the board anymore. 

Incidentally, on a completely different note, congrats to my "Elmhurst namesake" Brian Lee for his CCIW POW honors!

Thanks, I'm glad you responded because I have trouble giving such a calm, measured response.

[markerickson]

Gobigblue brought "it" up, not me.  I'm offended by his choice of words.

If something tragic happens to my brother-in-law, I will post pain and anguish.  If he returns safely, I will let you know of the joyous news.  Barring said information, I won't post about Iraq unless goaded. 

I had not raised the subject since I spread the news about his pending deployment circa 9/06.

[devildog29]

Gobigblue brought "it" up, not me.  I'm offended by his choice of words.

And others are offended by your flippant comments which border on mockery of Brock's service. 

[David Collinge]

Gobigblue brought "it" up, not me.  I'm offended by his choice of words.

And others are offended by your flippant comments which border on mockery of Brock's service. 

And others think that this is not the appropriate forum for this conversation.  Please.

[79jaybird]

Just to throw my 2 cents in.... I have the utmost respect and pride for our Men and Women in the armed services.  My Sister's Boyfriend is currently stationed off the coast of Iraq with the US Navy.  The worse day here in America is 10 x's better than what our Armed services have to deal with.  Congratulations and God Bless all our Veterans and Troops.

OK, about tomorrow's games.  I like Elmhurst over Carthage for 2 reasons.  A) This team is starting to gel and there is not that 1 pivotal figure, like there was last year with Martin.  All 5 guys on the floor are working together.  B) Elmhurst has played well on the road in Carthages PEC.  I look forward to a close matchup decided by 10 points or less, but I do see Elmhurst pulling it out.

[usee]

Just to throw my 2 cents in.... I have the utmost respect and pride for our Men and Women in the armed services.  My Sister's Boyfriend is currently stationed off the coast of Iraq with the US Navy.  The worse day here in America is 10 x's better than what our Armed services have to deal with.  Congratulations and God Bless all our Veterans and Troops.

OK, about tomorrow's games.  I like Elmhurst over Carthage for 2 reasons.  A) This team is starting to gel and there is not that 1 pivotal figure, like there was last year with Martin.  All 5 guys on the floor are working together.  B) Elmhurst has played well on the road in Carthages PEC.  I look forward to a close matchup decided by 10 points or less, but I do see Elmhurst pulling it out.

There's a shocker for you...Jaybird likes Elmhurst over {plug in elmhurst's next opponent here}.

football, basketball, field hockey, doesn't matter. Jaybird bleeds the bluejay blue.

[79jaybird]

"There's a shocker for you.. Jaybird likes Elmhurst.... bleeds the Bluejay blue..."
Usee, I'll take that as a compliment.    Hehe K+ Usee
I do recall picking Wheaton over Elmhurst in football this past fb season.
I didn't just say "Elmhurst is going to win" without explaining why I think they will pull out the W.
In all seriousness, this is probably the best TEAM Elmhurst has had, since the 2001
Championship team. 
Field Hockey    I do play Ice Hockey and might be practicing with Wheaton's Hockey Team next week.

[mwunder]

Some of us who were sifting through the league's results on Saturday night after the game were having a hard time trying to figure out what was going on with Carthage this weekend. For openers, what were the Red Men doing playing a non-conference game the night before their conference opener -- a conference opener that was on the road, no less? I could've sworn that at some point that Northland game was scheduled for Thursday night rather than Friday night, so perhaps at the last minute it got moved back a day due to extenuating circumstances. If so, I would've just scrapped the game altogether rather than have it interfere with the preparation for the infinitely more important game on Saturday in Bloomington.

The box score of the Northland game itself raised even more questions. Bosko played his rotation the entire game; in fact, starters Brian Schlemm and Joe Higgins played 28 and 27 minutes, respectively. What especially puzzles me is the fact that Carthage was up by 26 points, 84-58, with 4:40 left in the game -- and yet Bosko did not empty his bench. In fact, the last shot taken by a Carthage player was by Schlemm, a missed trey with 17 seconds left in the game.

So why were the regulars still in the game late in a non-conference matchup against an outmanned and clearly beaten foe the night before the conference opener? Granted, Bosko might've been trying to teach his regulars some sort of lesson about finishing off an opponent, but the 16-point run that Northland engineered in that last 4:40 could've just as easily come against the Carthage scrubs while the regulars rested and avoided any injury more serious than chafing the backs of their necks with their towels.

It's a head-scratcher. Of course, I'm sure that Bosko has a good explanation for it. I'm dying to hear it.

I thought the EXACT same thing when I looked at the boxscore of the Northlands game.  Being a game short on the schedule isn't a good enough reason in my mind.

I guess I have to thank Brock for, in gobigblue's words, "fighting for our country."  I'm so much safer now.

Personally, Mark, I had no problem with this quote until the "I'm so much safer now" comment.  If it was supposed to come off funny, it failed miserably.

I never care to get in the middle of a discussion on officiating because it rarely goes anywhere productive, but I do have a couple thoughts on this.

IWU shot more FT's because they are much more of a low post-oriented offensive team than Carthage.  IWU's frontline shot 28 of the 32 free throws (Z. Freeman 12, A. Freeman 9, Gant 4, Bloom/Chamernik a combined 3 off the bench).  In the game, IWU shot 9 3's to Carthage's 30.   IWU's offense revolves around pounding the ball inside, whereas Carthage shoots a lot of 3's.  Teams that pound the ball inside are always going to shoot more FT's than a team that doesn't (more fouls are commited around the basket than on the perimeter.)  IWU's frontcourt athleticism advantage over Carthage is evidenced in the 38-21 Titan rebounding margin, and it was this size/athleticism disparity that led to a lot of the Red Men fouls down low.

Also consider, IWU shot 10 FT's in the final 1:03 of the game when Carthage was trying to foul.  Just take those away and there is most of your FT disparty anyway.

I think we all realize that it is unfair to assume one team got jobbed simply because there was an uneven FT total in the boxscore.

Leave it to Q to explain away the Carthage / IWU free throw discrepancy in a clear, concise, NEUTRAL manner that belies the fact that he is the IWU play by play announcer.  It's great to be able to get information like that (yes, you could have just looked at the box score) from someone who saw the game.  Even though he bleeds green, he was professional in his assessment.  I just hope that when Carthage takes care of IWU at the PEC, he's as even-handed (which I'm sure he will be!)

[ecdubb420]

EC moving up 12 spots after beating Augie?!?  Does this show more respect for EC or Augustana?
Traveling to Kenosha has always been one of my favorite road trips since my sis went up there for a year before learning that EC was the only way to go (now if my IWU sis could only change that opinion).  Though I must admit, I do miss the old barn and I wish they would put the press courtside (kudos to Wheaton and NCC) instead of in the nosebleeds (for D3 standards), the sprinting boxscore update kid more than makes up for it.
Lets keep the momentum rolling boys, and please, please, please do not run the zone.  I believe teams have converted 4 threes in 6 possessions against it.