MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

redmenfan, you're right and I agree that the refs were poor, and should just let the players play/decide the outcome of the game. Sometimes they get too whistle happy and feel they "need" to call everything.  These are men and competitors, so I think they (at times) need to back off and let the players play.
9-31 from the 3 point line, and (I would imagine) not a good stat from the FT line either.  The Redmen really shot themselves not excecuting from both lines last night, which in essence is how Elmhurst was able to slowly pull away.  Just a note, I wouldn't leave Trey Bowens open too many times, that man is a sharp shooter and a clutch presence.

[TitanBacker]

haha, every time i think i have a good post, I look back a few pages and Q has already beat me to it.   

Anyways, it seems like there is a lot of parity in the teams and every team is closely matched and are some of the best in D3.  This reminds me of the football season where any team could win on any given Saturday.

My two cents, the team with the healthiest roster at the end wins.  Sounds like Dain and Raymond and Dwyer being out has hurt their teams a lot.  Elmhurst, possibly the healthiest team right now, is doing the best at the moment.  Of course, these are my opinions and I dont' follow basketball as much as most people on this board.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 4 loss team wins the CCIW tourney.

[diehardfan]

On the season IWU has 174 assists and 213 turnovers...for perspective, the Titans had 472 assists vs 396 turnovers last year.  The last time IWU had more turnovers than assists on a season was Scott Trost's first year, when 2-guard Chris Silagi was asked to play PG. The Titans had 323 and 338 in 2001-02 and finished 6-8 in the CCIW, 12-12 overall.  It is hard to win when you can't initiate the offense consistently and turn the ball over as much as IWU does.

I have been looking at boxscores a lot thanks the the fantasy league. When I read this I immediately thought of the fact that Elmhurst has more turnovers than assists this year. A-TO Ratio of the two highest ranked teams in the CCIW right now. In fact, Augustana's A-TO ratio is even worse than IWU's.

5. Elmhurst (12-1, 2-0): 170:192 or 0.89
6. Illinois Wesleyan... 174:213 or 0.82
7. Augustana........... 187:240 or 0.78

There are only two teams in the CCIW with positive assist to turnover ratios right now, Carthage and Wheaton.

Elmhurst obviously has a strong PG in Brian Lee, but his A-TO ratio isn't anywhere near the levels that Nielson and Dauksas dropped each year without batting an eyelash. Overall, Elmhurst's A-TO ratio stinks... but they haven't lost a game since their season opener. Despite the fact that EVERYONE was talking about how Wheaton didn't have a true point at the beginning of the year, we're actually posting the best assist-turnover ratio in the league by a pretty significant margin at 1.15. I'm not really sure how much that stat can be attributed to anything. A-TO ratios have a LOT to do with whether or not the guys catch it... not just whether or not it's thrown well. Gillmore is one of the few Titans with a positive A-TO ratio, and I'm sure once he's healthy, he'll be a great guard for this team.

What I did notice was that IWU's turnover margin, and number of steals were the worst in the conference... now obviously I haven't seen a IWU game this year, so the Titan fans will have to tell me.. maybe there's a lack of defensive intensity from the IWU guards? I can see how Gillmore's injuries would make if difficult to play hard on both ends of the floor.

Personally, I'm guessing IWU's real problem last night was their inability to shoot outside. At some point when I was switching from broadcasts to broadcasts to update the scoreboard, I heard the IWU broadcasters note that IWU hadn't made a trey all night. IWU shot 4-16 from behind the arc. The starting five only made 2 of those 3pters, and Andrew Freeman was one of them! The other two were by a guy named Anthony Gunnell (who the heck is that???) who went 2-3 from behind the arc on back to back trips down the floor with less than three minutes to go. Combined with Harrigan's desperation heave in the closing seconds, these treys brought the score back to a vastly less embarrassing margin.... but it was too little too late. 46 of IWU's points came from layups/dunks/tipins... given that 12 of their points came from FTs.... that means that they only had 12 pts from 3pters (9 of those points coming in the last three minutes), and 12 pts from jumpers (an IWU fan can tell us if those were baby-jumpers or 15ftters). I don't know how you can win when your opposing team knows they don't have to take the outside threat seriously.

I'm in no way a live by the three, die by the three in a Grinnell sorta way supporter, but the best teams have a huge inside and outside threat... St. Thomas being a perfect example with Bryan Schnettler on the outside averaging 20 and shooting 45% from behind the arc, and Preseason AA Isaac Rosefelt on the inside. IMHO, IWU is really hurting for is a record 3pt shooter like Keelan Amelianovich, not an Adam Dauksas.

[ecdubb420]

talk about the broadcasters, great to hear that people are listening.  speaking first hand, the EC program is growing, and now that we have settled in on a full-time play-by-play guy, things should continue to pick up and the broadcasts should continue to develop.  

as for what really matters, the game, here goes.

In my opinion, Carthage is not a threat to win this conference.  They take too many poor shots, and I think Schlemm is going to work mentally take himself out of many games (as he did last night).  With that said, they will not have the firepower to make a real difference.  That coupled with no interior depth causes many, many problems.  I've been wrong before, but feel pretty confident that Carthage will struggle to go above .500 in league play.

It continues to amaze me how teams that have no reason falling in love with the outside shot, fall in love with the outside shot.
Don't get me wrong, Trey had his fair share of good looks, but Schlemm taking 3's off screens, or Schmerdiak (who has the slowest release I've seen in a long, long time) taking looks in general (yeah i know 37% from beyond the arc coming into this game) is not a way to get back in the game.  Coupled with the fact that they are not good on the glass, they essentially gave away 15 possessions tonight.  This is not a recipe for success in the CCIW.  

Milos (man did i botch his last name last night) and Jacklin were virtually non-existent in this game.  Not sure if it was the fact that they often times had to use a ton of energy against Ruch/Michael/Hintszche or it just wasn't their night.  

I fell in love with a Carthage point guard four years ago named Scott Hood and said many times I expected good things from him, but this pails in comparison to what I saw out of fellow York alum Scott Fendley.  This kid looks like he will be in quite the battle with Higgins over the next few years to take lead Carthage at the point.

For EC to win realitively easily with virtually no outside game is very impressive.  Lee and Burks attempted 3 or 4 outside shots (making 2-3 3pts), but never really did enough to change the complexion of the ballgame.  It seemed that Carthage wanted to shut down those two guys and make EC's bigs beat them.  With no inside depth and Schlemm who played ZERO defense once picking up his 3rd foul, this was a perplexing idea.  Ruch, Michael and even Hintzsche controlled the ballgame from the inside (32-16 points in paint, 15-7 second chance points). That coupled with the fact that Bacon was playing under the weather (he was wearing his warmups, a hoodie and another shirt to keep his chills from taking over, not to mention his jersey got drenched in sweat very quickly) and we had to get 28 very solid minutes from Sayre (who is a good roll player, not someone you feel comfortable playing that many minutes).

Overall, a very nice win for EC who played very poorly tonight.  Then again, a sign of a great team is one who can win while not playing anywhere near its potential.  2-0 feels really good and hopefully will be only the beginning.

[diehardfan]

I've been lurking a lot and posting a little, but I've been following the games as best that I could. It's great to see you back April, I've missed you.

Congratulations to Augie for their win at Wheaton, the Thunder are always tough especially at home. It looks like this conference is going to be up for grabs this year, a lot of teams starting strong and the historically strong teams have faltered a little. It's going to be an interesting season. I'm sure it's going to liven my January and February, in sun starved Germany, up a little.

Hi Martie!

Aren't you supposed to be in Virginia already? One of the nicest things about VA (contrary to say, the midwest) is that the winters are generally sunny. I guess you can look forward to brighter times coming soon.

[ecdubb420]

great point about the TO's.  One additional comment about last nights game was that EC turned the ball over way, way too much.  All turnovers are bad, but the ones that EC made last night were ones that resulted from them beating themselves and not due to excessive pressure from Carthage.  All the turnovers on the box score are attributed to the guards, but rest assured I had Hintzsche with at least 2 and the other bigs with a few as well.  
EC's achilles heel(s) have been lapses in defensive rebounding and turning the ball over in bunches.  Last night they couldn't rebound for the first 2-3 minutes, then dominated, and the bulk of their turnovers came in 2 stretches, one in the first half (which allowed Carthage to grab the 8 point lead) and the next in the second half after grabbing a 60-49 lead (luckily Carthage bailed them out with some poor play of their own).  
These lapses will happen every game, but tend to only last a few minutes, so the damage done hasn't been too excessive.

Also, the refs were awful, but thankfully were awful to both EC and Carthage players.  As long as they are consistant, you really can't complain.

[True Basketball Fan]

Also, the refs were awful, but thankfully were awful to both EC and Carthage players.  As long as they are consistant, you really can't complain.

Bad calls for both teams at least doesn't create an unfair advantage, but it still gives us the right to complain, even if they are consistently bad. 

[coebball70]

Get in store for more!  Great night for CCIW basketball.  I attended the Wheaton vs Augustana game and was impressed by Augies backcourt, both offensively and defensively.  They shut down Raymond and several times, through decisive cuts, were able to score easy cripples because of bewildered Thunder defenders.  If Wheaton played with the same intensity as they did in the last five minutes it would have been a game.  But Augie was clearly the better team tonight!  Can't wait to see North Park, the surprise so far.  Carthage will do exactly what they did last year, not much.  Elmhurst seems to really be molding into a TEAM.  Maybe they should give lessons in Kenosha.

[armywife]

Hi April,
We won't be leaving for Virginia until June. Our daughter graduates this year, so we need to stick around until that happens, then we'll be heading home. We are really looking forward to Virginia, we love it there. I hope we can get together when you make it home. One more year observing the CCIW from afar. I ususally don't stay up to listen to the games, this board lets me stay connected to what is going on.

It's good to see all of the teams represented on the board. I'm excited to see NP starting strong. It's been a long time coming for Greg and Dennis and the rest of the NP faithful. I hope they can keep it going all season.

[diehardfan]

I fell in love with a Carthage point guard four years ago named Scott Hood and said many times I expected good things from him, but this pails in comparison...

That's what you get for "falling in love" with a point guard other than Jimmy Lehan and Jon Nielson.

Incidentally, I agree with 79jay that the game analysis was fine... it's just agonizingly frustrating for the fan who is listening in (and obviously can't see the scoreboard) if they don't know how much time is left... giving the score with the time every 4-5 minutes of game time can be over 10 minutes of real time. What happened in the game was that the score would be given without the time, or that the time was given without the score! So the fan is thinking... how much were we down by again... four? or something like that... I'm sure it's something that only comes with lots of practice. The broadcast of the game was still very much appreciated though!

Martie, I'll be home in the first week of July for my baby sis's wedding (so weird!) but since I am the maid of honor... I probably won't have time to breathe... much less make a mini road trip.... maybe in the fall or winter? 

[OurHouse]

Here are links to the boxscore and Pantagraph piece from the IWU/Millikin game:

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/01/10/sports/doc45a5c85465141238954157.txt

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/iwumbb13.htm


The reaction for some to the IWU/Millikin result will be to say, "The Titans must have not played with intensity," or "IWU looked past Millikin," or "Millikin wanted it more," etc.  I disagree with those sentiments.  A few thoughts...

1) IWU just does not have a pure point-guard right now.  Andrew Gilmore, a 2-guard, is playing his heart out on those bad knees but he's just not a point.  Opposing teams with good perimeter defenders (like Carthage and Millikin have) can create easy turnovers vs IWU and really disrupt the entire Titan offense.  On the season IWU has 174 assists and 213 turnovers...for perspective, the Titans had 472 assists vs 396 turnovers last year.  The last time IWU had more turnovers than assists on a season was Scott Trost's first year, when 2-guard Chris Silagi was asked to play PG. The Titans had 323 and 338 in 2001-02 and finished 6-8 in the CCIW, 12-12 overall.  It is hard to win when you can't initiate the offense consistently and turn the ball over as much as IWU does.

2) Last night IWU shot 53.2%, out-rebounded the Big Blue by 13, and had a positive A:TO ratio.  19 times out of 20 that will win you a home game in front of 2000 of your own fans.

3) Millikin played great.  Mike Gavic came into the game 15-44 (.341) from 3 and went 6-9 from beyond the arc...Drew Gensler played like an All-American down the stretch and had an all-around terrific game, wth 23 points and 5 assists...the 3 6-7 freshmen (Rexroade, Ott, Demby) combined for 24 points on 11-19 from the field...Millikin shot 54.4% on the road in one of the CCIW's toughest venues.


Millikin has had two great recruiting classes in a row.  The sophomore class,  of course, has Drew Gensler.  I think all three of the 6-7 freshmen in the varsity rotation (Robert Rexroade, Zach Ott, Joscar Demby) are going to be very good.  Of Millikin's 84 points last night, 51 were scored by freshmen and sophomores. 

The Big Blue, kind of the like Illinois Wesleyan, is talented enough to beat anybody in the CCIW but inexperienced enough to loss to anybody.  Millikin will give a lot of teams trouble this season.

Titan Q:

I saw the game last night and you are correct, they do not have a point guard that can run the team and in critical or close games, that is when you need one the most. A flat tire on the bench is no use talking about because it is not helping and when he comes back, it will not be the end all because that guy will not be 100% for some time, conditioning and in BB shape.

Also, they travel to Elmhurst this weekend and my prediction, will be blown out the door regardless of how good Zach is - if the Titans continue to lose more games, there will be NO chance to get to the playoffs and I will feel real bad for Zack and the seniors because of there is NO depth on this years Titans team....

my 2 cents

[usee]

My two cents, the team with the healthiest roster at the end wins.  Sounds like Dain and Raymond and Dwyer being out has hurt their teams a lot.  Elmhurst, possibly the healthiest team right now, is doing the best at the moment.  Of course, these are my opinions and I dont' follow basketball as much as most people on this board.

I wouldn't be surprised if a 4 loss team wins the CCIW tourney.

TB,

Interesting you say this. I was listening to Bill Harris on WETN before last nights game and he said "I believe the team that stays healthy will win the conference". Other things from Coach Harris from the interview:

-said there were 6 teams of final four caliber in the conference.
-said there were going to be 2 teams of final 4 caliber that don't even make the conf tourney.
-biggest concern is cannibalization in the conference. this will cost playoff spots
-wasn't in favor of the conference tourney. voted against it.
-the conference race is a marathon not a sprint
-wasn't settled on how to use his guard rotations with Mohan back and Raymond about 70%

[usee]

I also attended the wheaton/augie game and augie deserved to win. the officiating was its usual atrocious level with bad calls going both ways. Wheaton regularly worked very hard on defense only to have 1 person breakdown and give up an easy basket with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock. Augie's perimeter defense was excellent. Wiele is not nearly physical enough on defense.

Augie's coach is very entertaining to watch. I particularly like when he stomps his dress shoes on the floor for emphasis. Augies shooting percentage was so high because they got a lot of easy shots and layups.

I hope Coach Harris is right about this being a marathon but I fear the lead pack has a couple mile head start.

[Greek Tragedy]

I have been looking at boxscores a lot thanks the the fantasy league. When I read this I immediately thought of the fact that Elmhurst has more turnovers than assists this year. A-TO Ratio of the two highest ranked teams in the CCIW right now. In fact, Augustana's A-TO ratio is even worse than IWU's.

5. Elmhurst (12-1, 2-0): 170:192 or 0.89
6. Illinois Wesleyan... 174:213 or 0.82
7. Augustana........... 187:240 or 0.78

There are only two teams in the CCIW with positive assist to turnover ratios right now, Carthage and Wheaton.

Interesting stuff, that made me think of the WIAC teams and how they fared (NOT comparing, just to see what they do).

Team	Ast	TO	Ratio
Point	238	133	1.79
Oshkosh	216	191	1.13
Eau Claire	211	187	1.13
Whitewater	218	196	1.11
Superior	205	186	1.10
La Crosse	208	194	1.07
River Falls	208	209	1.00
Stout	224	230	0.97
Platteville	159	200	0.80

In the MWC, Grinnell (227/163:  1.39), Carroll (162/146:  1.11) and Ripon (149/148:  1.01) are the only ones of the 10 teams that are in the black.  Lawrence is at .94 (146/155)

[REDMENFAN]

I agree Fendley is going to be a great player in the CCIW, I just feel he might be a year away. Once he adds about ten pounds of muscle and acclimates to the college game, I think he'll be outstanding. I know from a pure shooting standpoint, there's not many better at the D-3 level. As far as him and Higgins pushing each other, I disagree because I don't think Fendley will ever play the point, but I guess anything is possible. I wasn't aware Elmhurst starts 6'10'' and 6'8'' on the inside, and has a 6'9'' guy coming off the bench (I believe those are the correct heights) but for teams to compete with them they are going to have to find a way to make them take a lot of outside shots because their post guys are both physical and have great moves down low