MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[tjcummingsfan]

which has to say something about the questionable quality of those Elmhurst big men.  North Park's "big men" gave up close to a total of 10 inches between the 4 and 5 spot, and I think Wheaton is close to that as well (plus at least a hundred pounds I would guess).  If Elmhursts big men were who they are claimed to be neither NP nor Wheaton should have a chance at being effective against them in the paint.

[Gregory Sager]

which has to say something about the questionable quality of those Elmhurst big men.  North Park's "big men" gave up close to a total of 10 inches between the 4 and 5 spot, and I think Wheaton is close to that as well (plus at least a hundred pounds I would guess).  If Elmhursts big men were who they are claimed to be neither NP nor Wheaton should have a chance at being effective against them in the paint.

To be fair, Elmhurst's big men did outrebound NPU's. The Bluejays do not have anyone inside who can handle the quickness of either Anthony Lenoir or Nick Williams. As for Wheaton, I think it was Usee who made a point a few weeks ago about rebounding largely consisting of desire. Well, while that's not always true -- Elmhurst leads the league in rebounding margin by over half a board a game -- Saturday's game at King Arena was one of those cases where desire won out over size underneath the basket. Andy Wiele and Michael Fiddler just wanted it more than did Brent Ruch, Nick Michael, and Jared Hintzsche, and who knows where in the heck the previously-inert Phill Denham came up with that Tasmanian Devil baseline move of his that shocked everyone in the gym ... twice.

Look, I love NPU's big men. Lenoir and Stephano Jones give Paul Brenegan every ounce of energy that they have every time they're on the floor, and Nick Williams is a CCIW stud in the making. As anxious as we all were about NPU's lack of size coming into this season, I think that we can be very happy with what the Vikings have done in the paint in 2006-07. Heck, the Vikes were even +2.5 in rebounding margin in CCIW games coming into tonight, and tonight's lopsided dominance on the glass for NPU will push that stat even higher for the Park. Still, one can't help but envy Elmhurst's interior game at least a little. Those boys are huge -- and they're not clumsy, all-thumbs ectomorphs, either. Those sequoias for the Bluejays can play some ball.

[usee]

which has to say something about the questionable quality of those Elmhurst big men.  North Park's "big men" gave up close to a total of 10 inches between the 4 and 5 spot, and I think Wheaton is close to that as well (plus at least a hundred pounds I would guess).  If Elmhursts big men were who they are claimed to be neither NP nor Wheaton should have a chance at being effective against them in the paint.

To be fair, Elmhurst's big men did outrebound NPU's. The Bluejays do not have anyone inside who can handle the quickness of either Anthony Lenoir or Nick Williams. As for Wheaton, I think it was Usee who made a point a few weeks ago about rebounding largely consisting of desire. Well, while that's not always true -- Elmhurst leads the league in rebounding margin by over half a board a game -- Saturday's game at King Arena was one of those cases where desire won out over size underneath the basket. Andy Wiele and Michael Fiddler just wanted it more than did Brent Ruch, Nick Michael, and Jared Hintzsche, and who knows where in the heck the previously-inert Phill Denham came up with that Tasmanian Devil baseline move of his that shocked everyone in the gym ... twice.

In the interest of accuracy, Elmhurst did outrebound Wheaton 42-33 including 20-11 on the offensive glass. But it was clear the desire of the wheaton bigs on both ends of the floor were the difference in that game.

[usee]

I think everyone is very surprised at how close the game was in Rock Island. Given the IWU backcourt woes vs the strength of the Augie backcourt, we all assumed an easy V for the ikings. Just proves again there are no gimmes in the CCIW, although every team should expect a war with Zach Freeman on the floor. Nice job by the Titans in a game that apparently could have gone to the underdog.

[RedMan1]

North Park is a difficult team to play, but the Redmen played and won tonights game. Big win for them tonight.
Just wanted to know why you thought the Redmen shouldn't be ranked? The CCIW is ROUGH!!
Also, North Park might have dominated the stats, but the most important stat is getting the "W"
You could win every stat and still lose, but a loss is still a loss.
In this conference, a conference win is a conference win. If you lose every category and still win you still feel good about yourself. A win is a win!

Did North Park Dominate? If they did why didn't they win? Losing at home is big and I wanted to know how North Park fans felt, or CCIW fans felt??

Any RedMen fans at the game to give some insight??

[Gregory Sager]

Also, North Park might have dominated the stats, but the most important stat is getting the "W"
You could win every stat and still lose, but a loss is still a loss.

Nobody's arguing that point. File this under: "Truism".

Did North Park Dominate? If they did why didn't they win?

I didn't say that NPU dominated. Indeed, I called the game "extremely narrow" and cited the fact that neither team ever had a substantial lead. I strongly doubt that anyone from either side, NPU or Carthage, would say that one team or the other dominated. I'm not going out on a limb when I say that everyone in the crackerbox tonight knew that he or she had just seen a very tightly-contested basketball game.

I said that NPU dominated statistically, by which I meant that the Vikings came out ahead in most of the frequently-cited statistical categories. That can easily be proven by a perusal of the box score:

http://www.northpark.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/2007stats/1-24m.htm

Losing at home is big

Losing anywhere is big. But North Park, like North Central, seems to be playing better on the road in the CCIW than at home -- or at least the Vikings are finishing off opponents better on the road than at home.

I wanted to know how North Park fans felt,

Bummed out.

or CCIW fans felt??

Carthage fans = happy
North Park fans = bummed out
Augie, Elmhurst, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, North Central, and Wheaton fans = I'm not sure

[Gregory Sager]

In the interest of accuracy, Elmhurst did outrebound Wheaton 42-33 including 20-11 on the offensive glass.

True, but Wheaton's big men outscored their Elmhurst counterparts, 33-30.

[usee]

Carthage fans = happy
North Park fans = bummed out
Augie, Elmhurst, Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, North Central, and Wheaton fans = I'm not sure

As a Wheaton fan I would say it is helpful to see NPU lose at home. No one wants to face a confident, talented group of Vikings in the heat of the CCIW race. A close loss at home hopefully gives them pause in other tight contests whether they can win and provides a small edge to a more confident opponent. It may also create some lack of confidence in a carthage team on the road who, despite the obvious resurgence of the Vikings, may be thinking they should still be able to beat NPU handily because of past year results.

In addition I would say it is good for Wheaton to see NPU beat/play other teams close to keep them from any complacency since they beat the Park handily in Chicago and face them at Wheaton in 10days time.

[nccsports891]

Todd Raridon has displayed nothing but class and character since becoming the Cardinals head coach. His "outburst" last night was an effort to prove a point to the league that the terrible officiating that is seen in almost every game is unacceptable. If defending your team shows a lack of class and character, then every coach or manager in every sport, is extremely guilty.

[Gregory Sager]

Todd Raridon has displayed nothing but class and character since becoming the Cardinals head coach. His "outburst" last night was an effort to prove a point to the league that the terrible officiating that is seen in almost every game is unacceptable.

Coaches have other, better means at their disposal with which to raise issues with the league about particular officials.

If defending your team shows a lack of class and character, then every coach or manager in every sport, is extremely guilty.

"Defending your team" is a vague and general term, and not all actions by coaches in that regard are the same. You can't paint all reactions towards officials by coaches -- or all coaches as individuals -- with the same brush.

[Titan Q]

IWU played extremely well last night...especially considering the Titans were down yet another guard.  Kevin Bryant, who started the last two games at the point, suffered an ankle injury during the North Park game and is out a couple weeks.  Sophomore Jordan Morris got his first start at the 2, with Andrew Gilmore moving back to the point.

The Titans led for 37 minutes.  They outshot the Vikings from the field 48% to 39%, shot a better percentage from beyond the arc (41% vs 37%), and out-rebounded Augie 36-27.  IWU shot 10 less free throw's than the Vikes and turned it over 7 more times.

After 14 first half turnovers, the Titans only turned it over 3 times in the second half against the league's best defense.  The 17 IWU turnovers was actually great all things considered -- last year in Bloomington with the best point-guard in Division III, IWU turned it over 21 times vs Augie.  Andrew Gilmore had a great game at the point and reserve Anthony Gunnell did as well (12 minutes at the point with zero turnovers).  Actually, last night 11 of IWU's 17 turnovers came from guys playing the 3, 4, and 5.

If IWU plays with this level of intensity and execution the rest of the way, they can beat anybody.  And in looking at the standings, I think it is fair to say that conference tournament #4 seed is still up for grabs.  As deep as the 1-5 hole is, if IWU can go up to Kenosha Saturday and put loss #4 on Carthage and pick up the head-to-head sweep (and thus the tie-breaker over Carthage), the Titans could start to think about making a run at the #4.  Still a long way to go and IWU is done with games at the two best teams in the league...


Carthage 3-3
North Park 3-4
North Central 2-4
Illinois Wesleyan 1-5
Millikin 1-5 

[Titan Q]

I don't care to get too deeply into the conversation of what Scott Trost left and did not leave in the cupboard, but I will remind everyone of the impact two injuries have had on this IWU season...
 
IWU desperately needs a steady, solid pure point-guard and they started the year with one on the roster.  Freshman Sean Dwyer was not only a great high school point-guard at Hersey H.S., he was the Daily Herald Player of the Year.  That is a huge honor considering how much talent is in the Daily Herald circulation area.  Dwyer played key minutes off the bench at the UW-Whitewater tournament and without question, would have worked his way into the starting lineup by about mid-December.

-----
http://www.iwuhoops.com/recr2006.htm

The 5-foot-11 Dwyer averaged 14 points, five assists and three rebounds for Hersey his senior season as the Huskies posted a 19-9 record. He was the Player of the Year of the Arlington Heights Daily Herald and in the Mid-Suburban East Conference.

"They (the Titans) got a great one," Hersey coach Don Rowley said of his three-year starter. "The major thing about him is he's tough and he's a leader. He's been leading the team since he was a sophomore on and off the floor.

"He's very hard nosed and very strong. He's the first guy to practice and the last to leave, and the first guy in the weight room and the last to leave. You won't believe how cut (physically) he is. He's worked his butt off to get where he is."

Dwyer shot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point range and 76 percent at the free throw line his senior season. He also boasted a 2.5 to 1 assist-turnover ratio.

"He's the best kid in 38 years we've had at getting to the basket. It's amazing how he's able to either finish shots or get fouled," said Rowley. "He's the consummate point guard and leader. He's more interested in getting others involved than scoring his own points."
-----

The Titans are also lacking another good big guy and 6-6 Brian Nussbaum has been out all season with a shoulder injury.  Brian was heavily recruited by several CCIW schools and he was offered Division II scholarships from Winona State (last year's national champ), North Dakota, and Quincy...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/RECR2004.HTM#nuss


Dwyer and Nussbaum would have helped a lot this year.

Also consider, the kid considered by Trost to be the top recruit in the current junior class, 6-5 and very athletic Steve Manus, left IWU after the 2005-06 school year.  Scott really liked Manus and thought he was going to be a good player...and another kid Augustana really wanted.

I guess I am just saying it is unfair to evaluate what Trost left in the Zach Freeman supporting cast all things considered.  The 3 guys mentioned above were supposed to be very important parts of the 2006-07 IWU team.   

[REDMENFAN]

Carthage has been getting outrebounded what seems like every game they've been in the past few weeks.  That is a huge concern, especially if the opposing team is pulling down a lot of offensive rebounds.  Huge victory lastnight. Saturday night will be a battle all the way and most likely a game decided by single digits. Sager, did Milos play lastnight? The Kenosha News said he was expected to, I didn't see his name in the article on the Carthage Website.  I'll be reading the kenosha news later and try to remember what the coaches had to say about that game

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Todd Raridon has displayed nothing but class and character since becoming the Cardinals head coach. His "outburst" last night was an effort to prove a point to the league that the terrible officiating that is seen in almost every game is unacceptable. If defending your team shows a lack of class and character, then every coach or manager in every sport, is extremely guilty.

This game really was a tale of two halves officiating wise and if you were to ask any coach or player I think that they would all agree is the one thing you want from an official is consistency - that certainly wasn't the case last night.

The first half was really physical and the officials let a lot of stuff go.   Elmhurst coach Mark Scheer was upset enough at the half that he went out to mid-court to confront the officiating crew.

There were 16 fouls called in the physical first half (9 on EC), and the youngest of the three officials had made one traveling call.  One of the other officials had made an entire series of calls only against the Elmhurst big men (who do foul a lot).

At the start of the 2nd half the young official quickly tooted his whistle twice and the 2nd one was the lame one on Simmons - a very ticky-tacky foul.  At this point Raridon and the North Central bench went off on the officials for basically the remainder of the game.

Elmhurst plays with a "block every shot you can philosophy" and officials aren't going to call every physical play a foul - they're just not - unless you're playing at IWU or Jim Ryan officiating at Augustana.

Bottom line, though, is that North Central was very much in the game (tied in fact) with 6:30 to go in the game when Simmons re-entered the game.  Once he got his shot blocked the mental wheels came off the cart - the young guards for the Cards began firing from everywhere and NC abandoned the methodical get the ball in to Walton and Krumtinger style of play that had kept them in the game.  The track meet began.  The EC guards then took control and flew to the basket on every possession and NC had no choice but to give up an easy score or foul them.

As for EC's inside players controlling the game on the offensive end of the floor - that's a crock....  They were nearly non-factors - until the Jays began taking and hitting some shots behind the arc in the 2nd half and the Card defense had to honor their shooting ability.  North Central's floating 3 to 2 zone really gave EC fits until they started taking the open 3-point looks in the 2nd half.

This was one of the most physical games I have seen in the CCIW, since Bill Warden's crew and Bosko's crew tangled in Naperville in the mid-eighties.  Really a take no prisoners kind of game.

MW

[tuvwxyz]

I don't care to get too deeply into the conversation of what Scott Trost left and did not leave in the cupboard,  


-----
http://www.iwuhoops.com/recr2006.htm

The 5-foot-11 Dwyer averaged 14 points, five assists and three rebounds for Hersey his senior season as the Huskies posted a 19-9 record. He was the Player of the Year of the Arlington Heights Daily Herald and in the Mid-Suburban East Conference.

"They (the Titans) got a great one," Hersey coach Don Rowley said of his three-year starter. "The major thing about him is he's tough and he's a leader. He's been leading the team since he was a sophomore on and off the floor.

"He's very hard nosed and very strong. He's the first guy to practice and the last to leave, and the first guy in the weight room and the last to leave. You won't believe how cut (physically) he is. He's worked his butt off to get where he is."

Dwyer shot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point range and 76 percent at the free throw line his senior season. He also boasted a 2.5 to 1 assist-turnover ratio.

"He's the best kid in 38 years we've had at getting to the basket. It's amazing how he's able to either finish shots or get fouled," said Rowley. "He's the consummate point guard and leader. He's more interested in getting others involved than scoring his own points."
-----

The Titans are also lacking another good big guy and 6-6 Brian Nussbaum has been out all season with a shoulder injury.  Brian was heavily recruited by several CCIW schools and he was offered Division II scholarships from Winona State (last year's national champ), North Dakota, and Quincy...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/RECR2004.HTM#nuss


Dwyer and Nussbaum would have helped a lot this year.

Also consider, the kid considered by Trost to be the top recruit in the current junior class, 6-5 and very athletic Steve Manus, left IWU after the 2005-06 school year.  Scott really liked Manus and thought he was going to be a good player...and another kid Augustana really wanted.

I guess I am just saying it is unfair to evaluate what Trost left in the Zach Freeman supporting cast all things considered.  The 3 guys mentioned above were supposed to be very important parts of the 2006-07 IWU team.   

Don't care to go too deeply? But you did. To quote iwuhoops is rather interesting to say the least. When are they going to say anything remotely negative about a player of their own?
Let's put it in perspective.
Unless he (Trost) is lying. He said last year at a post season IHSA game that it was the first high school game he had seen all year.
He knew all year he planned to exit. He left them high and dry.