MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[knarocky22]

In regards to the previous post about Augie being tournament tested, Wessels was sick and didn't even play in the tournament last year.  I think he gave it a go one game and couldn't do it. 

[OurHouse]

I don't know which side of the damn building is considered the "Elmhurst side."
All I know is Trost was sitting with Julie Raridon right behind the NCC bench. If thats the Elmhurst side then so be it.

Also, the statement that "if Trost was still going to support any CCIW school, it would obviously be IWU" is a little silly. Why would he support a school where many of the influential alums who control the $ were lobbying to get rid of him? 

Also, if he was supporting IWU, why would he be continuing any kind of friendship with Raridon and NCC when former Wesleyan player Teddy Tolliver recently transferred to NCC. How much sense does that make?   

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

Would that make him the second best player on Wheaton's roster full of "garbage" players? 

Well, lets not go that far - Toliver is the "garbage" of all "garbage" players - even worse then the non-impact or what you say, "garbage" players on the Wheaton team     

[AUGsportsFAN]

In regards to the previous post about Augie being tournament tested, Wessels was sick and didn't even play in the tournament last year.  I think he gave it a go one game and couldn't do it. 

Wessels last year caught pneumonia and had it for about 2 weeks.  He didn't play in the first or third tournament games.  The 2nd tournament game vs. UW-Stout he tried to give it a go, but couldn't play and was in for just a couple minutes in that one. 

Speaking of Wessels, he had a good game vs. IWU on Wednesday with 5 steals and 10 assists.  Anyone know when the last time an Augie player got double-digit assists in a game?

[AndOne]

Also, if he was supporting IWU, why would he be continuing any kind of friendship with Raridon and NCC when former Wesleyan player Teddy Tolliver recently transferred to NCC. How much sense does that make?   

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

OurHouse----

Maybe he can't play. We'll just have to wait and see.

However good (or bad as you seem to think)  Mr. Toliver is, I'd be willing to bet he could turn you inside out on a basketball court. Even at the height of your athletic career----if you ever had any type of athletic career. Then we'd all see the true meaning of your favorite word, "garbage" because thats what you would leave on the court.

Actually, if Teddy did turn you inside out, he'd be doing you a favor------because then your head would finally be free of your ass!!!!!

[AndOne]

And One, I am curious and just want to know, a you a former Basketball player at North Central?  I played FB and Baseball at Elmhurst and was just the mascot for Basketball.

79jaybird------

Football AND basketball? Thats great--Congrats!

I think its a great accomplishment to be able to play any sport well enough to be on a college team, but to be able to play at that level in TWO sports is fantastic. VERY IMPRESSIVE!

To answer your question--I played, but not at NCC.   

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know which side of the damn building is considered the "Elmhurst side."
All I know is Trost was sitting with Julie Raridon right behind the NCC bench. If thats the Elmhurst side then so be it.

The great "Who was Trost supporting?" debate has to be one of the most hilariously inane discussions I've ever seen on CCIW Chat. And I'm pleased, although a bit startled, that for once there was an inane discussion here and I had nothing to do with it.

I'm still upset that the EC students didn't put up the banner "At least Trost left us for DI" for the IWU game, but I guess it would have just taken away from the valuable drinking time.

Five demerits for the Elmhurst student section, because that would've been a great sign.

Brian Lee has lost his shot.  He really lost it in the second half of the NP game, but it has continued over the last two games.

Lee actually stopped shooting altogether from the outside in the second half of the EC @ NPU game. I don't know why, because he began the game on fire and he got plenty of good looks against NPU in the second half. But, yeah, last Saturday night he couldn't have hit a train with the basketball if he was standing on the College Avenue station platform.

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

Would that make him the second best player on Wheaton's roster full of "garbage" players? 

Pete wins the "Rattle That Cage!" Award for the week.

[Gregory Sager]

Sager, did Milos play lastnight?

Yes, Vukosavljevic played and scored a tidy eight points in 17 minutes of playing time against NPU. However, he was unquestionably a liability at the defensive end of the floor for the Red Men.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't care to get too deeply into the conversation of what Scott Trost left and did not leave in the cupboard, but I will remind everyone of the impact two injuries have had on this IWU season...
 
IWU desperately needs a steady, solid pure point-guard and they started the year with one on the roster.  Freshman Sean Dwyer was not only a great high school point-guard at Hersey H.S., he was the Daily Herald Player of the Year.  That is a huge honor considering how much talent is in the Daily Herald circulation area.  Dwyer played key minutes off the bench at the UW-Whitewater tournament and without question, would have worked his way into the starting lineup by about mid-December.

-----
http://www.iwuhoops.com/recr2006.htm

The 5-foot-11 Dwyer averaged 14 points, five assists and three rebounds for Hersey his senior season as the Huskies posted a 19-9 record. He was the Player of the Year of the Arlington Heights Daily Herald and in the Mid-Suburban East Conference.

"They (the Titans) got a great one," Hersey coach Don Rowley said of his three-year starter. "The major thing about him is he's tough and he's a leader. He's been leading the team since he was a sophomore on and off the floor.

"He's very hard nosed and very strong. He's the first guy to practice and the last to leave, and the first guy in the weight room and the last to leave. You won't believe how cut (physically) he is. He's worked his butt off to get where he is."

Dwyer shot 50 percent from the field, 40 percent from 3-point range and 76 percent at the free throw line his senior season. He also boasted a 2.5 to 1 assist-turnover ratio.

"He's the best kid in 38 years we've had at getting to the basket. It's amazing how he's able to either finish shots or get fouled," said Rowley. "He's the consummate point guard and leader. He's more interested in getting others involved than scoring his own points."
-----

The Titans are also lacking another good big guy and 6-6 Brian Nussbaum has been out all season with a shoulder injury.  Brian was heavily recruited by several CCIW schools and he was offered Division II scholarships from Winona State (last year's national champ), North Dakota, and Quincy...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/RECR2004.HTM#nuss


Dwyer and Nussbaum would have helped a lot this year.

Also consider, the kid considered by Trost to be the top recruit in the current junior class, 6-5 and very athletic Steve Manus, left IWU after the 2005-06 school year.  Scott really liked Manus and thought he was going to be a good player...and another kid Augustana really wanted.

I guess I am just saying it is unfair to evaluate what Trost left in the Zach Freeman supporting cast all things considered.  The 3 guys mentioned above were supposed to be very important parts of the 2006-07 IWU team.   

I have to agree with End-Of-The-Alphabet Guy on this one. Attrition -- injuries, illnesses, and players leaving school -- is a part of the game. Coaches protect themselves from being damaged by it by recruiting for depth. The fact that Trost left one PG in the cupboard for Rose -- and an incoming freshman PG at that, no matter how good he may turn out to be -- is an indictment of the former Titans coach. You don't just measure roster talent by quality, you measure it by quantity as well. You have to, because in D3 even if you have five great players you can be a twisted ankle, or a bad report card, or a mono virus, or a dad's depleted bank account, away from disaster.

(In Trost's defense, it had been asserted more than once on CCIW Chat by Titans posters that Andrew Gilmore was a combo guard who was definitely capable of handling the point for Illinois Wesleyan. I don't see people asserting that anymore.)

You can't simply examine Illinois Wesleyan's fortunes in a vacuum. No team completely controls its own destiny in this league. What happens with the other teams in the league affects what happens to Illinois Wesleyan. Aside from the obvious fact that a bunch of CCIW teams got a lot better while Illinois Wesleyan got a lot worse, it also needs to be said that the Titans aren't the only team weathering unexpected losses. Steve Manus may have been projected to be a future stud by Trost, but just look at all the talent that has abandoned the Carthage program over the past couple of years: Derrick Clanton, Kyle Jeffery, Mike Hart, Casanova Brown, etc. Augie fans had to watch Mike Kolze and Mike Thomas from last year's team transfer elsewhere. And I know that Wheaton has lost a number of younger players over the past few years that Bill Harris really liked, too, up to and including the kid from Orlando who was supposed to set this league afire but who walked off the campus after a couple of days there last August and never came back. NPU lost starting point guard Sheldon Evans in the middle of this season. And so on, and so forth.

Injuries? Yeah, Illinois Wesleyan's been hit hard by them. But North Park lost a projected starter, junior transfer Mike Church, to a preseason back injury that ended his year before it even began. Rob Strzemp was supposed to start for Elmhurst this year, and he's only now beginning to see a few minutes here and there -- and unless Strzemp turns it up in the second round-robin, and according to ecdubb it sounds doubtful that that will happen, his season's a wash. Augie lost Oliver Rorer, an important reserve. Again, what happened to the Titans didn't happen in a vacuum. Other teams lost important players. And those other teams compensated, because they had the depth with which to do so. Illinois Wesleyan didn't.

I can't help but contrast Ron Rose's first season at Wesleyan to Scott Trost's five years ago. Nobody will ever find a Dennis Bridges Fan Club membership card in my wallet, but I respect him for leaving such a talent-laden team for his successor. Trost, by contrast, left his successor with a lot less talent than Trost enjoyed in his final season there.

But, hey, that's not Trost's problem. He's at Lewis now, and if people in Bloomington are mad at him for not recruiting harder over the past couple of years, why should that be any skin off of his nose? He's got bigger things to worry about -- like who to sit with at NCC/EC games.

[Gregory Sager]

A slightly different subject, I am getting pretty sick of some of the big men in this conference acting like they are "too cool for school" during warmups. I don't remember Kasten, Moo, Wiertel, or heck, even me, behaving that way. The attitude on some of these guys in shocking. Loaf around during warm ups, jack up 3's from 5 feet behind the line with that slow, "I'm never going to shoot like this in the real game but everyone wants to know how much of a stud I am so I'll do it while I have a captive audience" motion, go over to the webcast table and check out stats, clown around in the layup line, try to block other players layups and then have a big laugh about it,  and it's always the big men. What's the deal there?

/rant over

Congraulations, Rob!!  You've officially become a cranky old man! 

"That's not how we did it in our day."

You should hear him yell at kids to get off of his lawn.

[Gregory Sager]

Mr. Krumtinger and I were discussing after the game about the CCIW Tournament.  I think he has a good point that this year, would be a great example of why we both agree that the CCIW Tourney should have all 8 teams in.  Could you imagine if all 8 schools were participating this year?  I mean even Millikin who is struggling this year to get CCIW wins, is still capable of beating anybody, any given night.

Funny you should mention that, because I said the same thing about an eight-team tournament at last night's Carthage @ NPU game. I think I said it to Jim Oboikowich and Brett Nishibayashi, but I can't be sure ... I tend to talk the ears off of at least two dozen people at every NPU home game.

[Gregory Sager]

There is a long way to go and the battle in the trenches for spots 3 and 4 is going to be fun to watch.  This is why I was such a proponent of a conference tournament all those years!

!

[dansand]

Mr. Krumtinger and I were discussing after the game about the CCIW Tournament.  I think he has a good point that this year, would be a great example of why we both agree that the CCIW Tourney should have all 8 teams in.  Could you imagine if all 8 schools were participating this year?  I mean even Millikin who is struggling this year to get CCIW wins, is still capable of beating anybody, any given night.

Funny you should mention that, because I said the same thing about an eight-team tournament at last night's Carthage @ NPU game. I think I said it to Jim Oboikowich and Brett Nishibayashi, but I can't be sure ... I tend to talk the ears off of at least two dozen people at every NPU home game.

I said the same thing last year:

With the lower half having their way with the upper half lately, how interesting would a conference tournament with all eight teams have been?

Speaking of Wessels, he had a good game vs. IWU on Wednesday with 5 steals and 10 assists.  Anyone know when the last time an Augie player got double-digit assists in a game?

I don't know for sure, but you might have to go back to Billy Schneider in the early '80's.

[Gregory Sager]

Mr. Krumtinger and I were discussing after the game about the CCIW Tournament.  I think he has a good point that this year, would be a great example of why we both agree that the CCIW Tourney should have all 8 teams in.  Could you imagine if all 8 schools were participating this year?  I mean even Millikin who is struggling this year to get CCIW wins, is still capable of beating anybody, any given night.

Funny you should mention that, because I said the same thing about an eight-team tournament at last night's Carthage @ NPU game. I think I said it to Jim Oboikowich and Brett Nishibayashi, but I can't be sure ... I tend to talk the ears off of at least two dozen people at every NPU home game.

I said the same thing last year:

With the lower half having their way with the upper half lately, how interesting would a conference tournament with all eight teams have been?

There were several people on CCIW Chat who pushed for an eight-team tourney when the topic was put on the front burner by the CCIW a couple of years ago. In fact, I think it was Q who quoted Scott Trost as making the cogent point that, if the CCIW had to have a tournament at all, an eight-team tournament made a lot more sense from a Pool C perspective. After all, with a four-team tournament, your potential Pool C candidates are coming out of the CCIW tourney with either 1-1 or 0-1 records attached to their regular-season regional performances. If you play an eight-team tourney, on the other hand, you can have a Pool C candidate come out of the conference tourney with two extra wins plus the loss, rather than just the one win. In other words, an eight-team CCIW tournament makes more sense if you're working to get multiple teams into the big dance.

However, last year wasn't really a good environment for an eight-team tournament from a purely competitive perspective. There were clearly four outstanding teams, a couple of so-so teams, and two very bad teams in the CCIW last year. The first round of an eight-team tourney would've been pretty ugly. This year, on the other hand? This year is the perfect environment for an eight-team CCIW tourney, because there's so much more parity from top to bottom.

[Titan Q]

(In Trost's defense, it had been asserted more than once on CCIW Chat by Titans posters that Andrew Gilmore was a combo guard who was definitely capable of handling the point for Illinois Wesleyan. I don't see people asserting that anymore.)

Only because of his knees though.  Gilmore, at the 40-50% he's playing at, is not a point-guard...Andrew Gilmore near full strength is a very good "combo guard" plenty capable of playing the 1.  Gilmore had a fantastic game at the point Wednesday at Augustana (Ron Rose had to move him back to the point due to Kevin Bryant's injury) vs the best defensive team in the CCIW.  Unfortunately his knees were so bad late though, he had to sit and watch the final 2 minutes from the bench.

[OurHouse]

Also, if he was supporting IWU, why would he be continuing any kind of friendship with Raridon and NCC when former Wesleyan player Teddy Tolliver recently transferred to NCC. How much sense does that make?   

Teddy Toliver? Have you ever seen him play? OMG .... he cannot play in the CCIW - he is terrible!!!! Who cares about him anyway     

OurHouse----

Maybe he can't play. We'll just have to wait and see.

However good (or bad as you seem to think)  Mr. Toliver is, I'd be willing to bet he could turn you inside out on a basketball court. Even at the height of your athletic career----if you ever had any type of athletic career. Then we'd all see the true meaning of your favorite word, "garbage" because thats what you would leave on the court.

Actually, if Teddy did turn you inside out, he'd be doing you a favor------because then your head would finally be free of your ass!!!!!

AndOne: 

NO, he cannot play - I've seen him play. He is totally "useless" - when you are a former great athlete and compare/contrast individual players in the CCIW and recognize how good you really have to be to fall into a category of "impact player", Toliver falls into the "other" class of players

Sorry, just the way it is