MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Sideliner]

And 2 final thoughts on officiating so far this year-----

1. I just love it when the trailing ref who is standing 6-7 feet over the center court line and just inside the right sideline calls a foul on a play that takes place along the baseline 4-5 feet to the left of the basket. Especially when the baseline ref doesn't see any foul. I've seen that happen a couple of times in every game I've been to this year. Not sure how many feet away that is, but you would have to have bionic eyes to see a foul that far away.

2. Numerio uno this year. The ref who has just made a terrible call is standing on the foul line during a time out called just after he whistled the foul. One of the fans of the offending team shouts something at the ref---not complementary to be sure, but also not profane in any way---and the ref, who clearly hears whats said, points up at the fan, and then quickly down at his crotch!     Happened Wed night.   
Sometimes the refs get the abuse they ask for.

AndOne,

In reference to scenario #1, I'm assuming that your refering to a three person crew in which case that is tough to watch.  If it is a two person crew then the likely chances of the trail official making that call are much greater.

In scenario #2, let's hope that an officiating supervisor reviews game tape on a regular basis and that official is "relieved" of his duties.

(modified by GS for quote formatting)

I have watched many sporting events, mostly basketball, from the park district level through professional ranks.  I have seen many bad calls and I have seen many referees make and continue to make bad calls.  And I know that the use of the "bad call" description can be somewhat subjective.  I have seen my teams loose games at the very end because of a "bad call" and I'm sure my teams have won some games because of what fans of the other team would term a "bad call".   I do not whine about such things.  Rather, I fall in line with Elmhurst_Mom's husband.  You can't allow your team to be in a position at the end of the game where the call may decide the outcome

In any event, in all of those instances of "bad calls", I have come away with the feeling that the referee made the call, right or wrong in my mind, because he saw it (or thought he saw it) that way.  For the very first time I saw a referee make calls that I had the feeling had nothing to do with what he actually saw on the court.

Jerry Scherzinger caught the eye of the NCC fans because of several of his calls in the second half.  I was sitting in the stands with the NCC parents and students.  A group of us stood up and pointed at him to display our displeasure with the calls he was making.  As AndOne previously reported, Jerry responded with the lewd gesture.  After the Simmons technical foul and then the second technical foul on the NCC coach, I had the feeling that something just wasn't right with Jerry's calls.   I talked with the NCC head coach after the game to find out what happened and what he might have said to deserve the technical foul.  Evidently, Jerry said something to the NCC bench as he passed by, the coach didn't hear what was said and was following Jerry to ask him to repeat it.  The coach told me that he asked repeatedly, but Jerry would not respond, except with the technical fouls.

It was curious to me that a referee would call a technical foul because a coach asked for him to repeat himself.  I spent a couple days talking to folks who were closer to the bench and might have heard what Jerry said.  I did not actually hear what Jerry said, but from the report I heard from a third party (which I cannot repeat here), what was said was not only unprofessional, it was wrong.  I'm sure there was no way Jerry was going to repeat himself in an area where even more people could here that statement.  He certainly had reason to hide what he had said just a few seconds earlier.

I'd like to know what avenue exists to hold Jerry Scherzinger accountable for his behavior.  No one can prove his motive, but his actions and words were in line with someone who was making calls on the basis of revenge, rather than what he was seeing on the court.  Anyone can do what I did, talk to those involved, find out exactly what was said by whom and to whom.  I did not find any reason for the last two technical fouls; perhaps it was Jerry's way of "getting back" at someone.

The NCC coach's actions were certainly understandable; Jerry Scherzinger was the classless one.

[Greek Tragedy]

Newspaper said there was a crowd of 1650 at the Carthage game Saturday night, a very respectable number.

I find that interesting.  I was at the IWU game and was talking to a fan who has attended games for 20 years or so...assuming she's been to nearly every one this year as well.  I asked her if this is the draw Carthage usually gets and she said yes.  I was impressed since it was pretty full.

But, later on, I was looking at your boxscores and the 1675 (actually) was by far and away the best crowd you've had all year.  So, saying that's "very respectable" seems like a huge understatement!  That's the first time I've been down there, so not sure if you do actually get that many on a regular basis, or at least in previous years. 

Dec. 1 v Hope 350
Dec. 2 v Calvin 500
Jan 5 v Northland 325
Jan 10 v Elmhurst 400
Jan 20 v Millikin 900
Jan 27 v IWU 1675

You really have had only 6 home games? 

[Gregory Sager]

I wish my alma mater well on Wednesday night, but I fear this is another game with 'no cigar' written all over it at the end.

Since your alma mater has been doing quite well this season in the face of your persistent doubt, those of us who share your alma mater who are just a wee bit superstitious heartily endorse both your absence from the crackerbox and your continual naysaying of the Vikings.

As for the stats from last Saturday's win at Millikin - I obviously did not see the game - and I'm betting there weren't many who did - but I have to suggest that perhaps the stat crew also missed their wake-up call.  The low number of assists and turnovers for both teams in an overtime game, between two squads who normally throw it around a lot, leaves me questioning the stat sheet, other than the final score.

On the contrary, the low numbers of assists and turnovers are completely understandable. First, Millikin is third and NPU is fourth in the conference in turnover margin, and neither team is exaggeratedly high in terms of team turnovers by CCIW standards. In terms of Saturday's game, NPU's 13 turnovers were only two under the team's average in CCIW play. Millikin, on the other hand, turned the ball over 21 times -- and that's over seven turnovers more than the Big Blue averages per game. Second, NPU is seventh and Millikin is eighth in the league in assists. Both teams are much more adept at beating opponents off the dribble and taking the ball to the basket than they are at scoring via ball reversal, screens, and cuts. In other words, while the assist totals were low, these are the two teams in the CCIW most likely to run up low assist totals in a game.

I’d like to know what avenue exists to hold Jerry Scherzinger accountable for his behavior.

Each referee is evaluated by the coaches. The CCIW supervisor of officials takes these evaluations very seriously with regard to the ongoing certification of officials used by the league. In addition, each head coach has recourse to blocking (I think) one official per year from working his team's games.

If Jerry Scherzinger made an obscene gesture to a fan while on the court, and it gets back to CCIW officials supervisor Ken Maziarka, Scherzinger's tenure as a CCIW referee could be in jeopardy.

[bulk19]

Gregory Sager =

This is your buddy, bulk19, from the WIAC board. You know, the one who overlooked your team when I was talking about Platteville and hoops dynasties and all...

But it's 2:30 in the a.m., and I see you are on the board posting here. Man, I either have to get up way early, or stay up way late, to even try to stay a step behind you! 

But isn't D3 hoops the best?

[Gregory Sager]

Gregory Sager =

This is your buddy, bulk19, from the WIAC board. You know, the one who overlooked your team when I was talking about Platteville and hoops dynasties and all...

But it's 2:30 in the a.m., and I see you are on the board posting here. Man, I either have to get up way early, or stay up way late, to even try to stay a step behind you! 

But isn't D3 hoops the best?

Yep.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

GS- yep, its all me - I stayed away from North Park and they lost at home to Wheaton (in a game that even you, the NPU 'pollyanna of all-time', the only fan ever to be assigned a seat behind the bench, said they played poorly - but I guess that was my fault, too) 

and I stayed away from a loss at home to Elmhurst, my fault, sorry NPU alums

and I stayed away from a loss at home to Carthage, ditto.

I have complimented North Park on their wins this year and I am over-joyed to see them garner some success and respectability, after years of running a one-ring circus under the five championship banners (which by the way they continue to claim as a heritage while doing little to add to the historic legacy of NP basketball success).  My gosh they took the Hall of Fame plaques down from the wall of the lobby five years ago and has any one seen the NCAA championship trophies.  IWU has one national championship and they have a whole display case devoted to just that one team.

But excuse me if I express an opinion - Mr. Sager - you are still a pollyanna, and I would rather go to games that I know I will enjoy.  I "have" a lifetime CCIW pass that I earned and it gives me the unqualified right to go and enjoy any CCIW contest I want to attend.

April was right, in her own evangelical way, you can't stand to be proven wrong, can you Greg?  As long as the opinion is one you share you're happy.

... watch the HoF goon squad come out on this one.

MW 70:3

[petemcb]

DP, your lack of faith is disturbing. -Darth Vader

as long as you don't telepathically choke me or send me to Pizza the Hut, oh Dark Helmet, I'll get over it.

I am planning a pilgrimage to Foster & Kedzie late in the season, though.

It takes me only 15 minutes to get to Elmhurst, 20 minutes to Wheaton, 30 minutes to North Central from where I live.

There was a story in the Daily Herald last week about the in-bound traffic on the Northwest Tollway backing up at the new River Road tollboth.  With my daily commute out to the suburbs I can attest the inbound backup often stretches beyond Arlington Heights Road (7 miles from the River Road Toll Booth).  At that rate NPU would take me an hour and half in the evening.

Still, I do need go - if only to use my lifetime pass.

MW 70:3

This seems like a good time to mention my first CCIW JV experience:  Trinity International @ NPU last night.  From my house in Arlington Heights, I took NW Highway to Park Ridge, down Dee Road to Foster, east to good ol' NPU:  43 minutes.  Return trip: 33 minutes.  C'mon in Dennis.  The water's fine, although it is tough to beat those seatbacks at Wheaton!

[tjcummingsfan]

the 5 national championship trophies are in their own room on the 2nd floor of Helwig

[robberki]

the 5 national championship trophies are in their own room on the 2nd floor of Helwig

DP's lifetime pass doesn't cover admission to Helwig.

[REDMENFAN]

Old School, I heard the Millikin game was the best crowd all year up to that point, but wasn't there. Then I saw there were less than 1,000 in attendance and thought to myself "that would have been a tiny crowd back in the early 2000's." I realize people want to see winners, and Carthage hasn't been as successful over the last few years. But to see crowds of roughly 2,000 for every home conference game whether it be a weekday or a Saturday night to being at some of the games this year and seeing 500 or so was disappointing. Hopefully the 1675 is a good sign that the students and communitiy are getting interested again. It just stinks probably 90% of the students will be gone for a 5 day break when Augie comes into town.   On a side note, the same thing has been happening at UW-Parkside (a D-2 program in Kenosha.)  They were only averaging around 500 students a game with a school that has 10,000 students. Their last 2 games they were right around 2,000 fans, so the community and the students are finally starting to show some support and provide a great atmosphere for the players to play in.  Out of curiousity, how has the attendance been at the Shirk Center? Do they still have great crowds, or are less showing interest with IWU struggling this year?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

how has the attendance been at the Shirk Center?

I'm going to take a wild stab by answering, "old."

[Scream]

the 5 national championship trophies are in their own room on the 2nd floor of Helwig

5 NC Trophies...

If only the costume designer of the Crazies could put together some wearable trophy outfits... 

[79jaybird]

If the officials provoked the NC coaches, players, and fans then I blame the officials for unprofessional motives on their part.  As an official you are there to govern the game in accordance with fair play, not to provoke either side.    I didn't really like any of the officials in that EC/NC game, and thought they were consistently poor all night, so I wouldn't doubt that the officials "started the fire" with the NC sidelines.
Nice to see Carthage climb the ranks to #17.  After a slow start, Bosko's boys are starting to play well and will be in the hunt late in the season.
Anybody--- with 3 CCIW teams for most of the year and 2 more in the Also Rec. Votes category,  are we (CCIW) almost assured 2-3 teams in the big dance?

[Dennis_Prikkel]

DP, your lack of faith is disturbing. -Darth Vader

as long as you don't telepathically choke me or send me to Pizza the Hut, oh Dark Helmet, I'll get over it.

I am planning a pilgrimage to Foster & Kedzie late in the season, though.

It takes me only 15 minutes to get to Elmhurst, 20 minutes to Wheaton, 30 minutes to North Central from where I live.

There was a story in the Daily Herald last week about the in-bound traffic on the Northwest Tollway backing up at the new River Road tollboth.  With my daily commute out to the suburbs I can attest the inbound backup often stretches beyond Arlington Heights Road (7 miles from the River Road Toll Booth).  At that rate NPU would take me an hour and half in the evening.

Still, I do need go - if only to use my lifetime pass.

MW 70:3

This seems like a good time to mention my first CCIW JV experience:  Trinity International @ NPU last night.  From my house in Arlington Heights, I took NW Highway to Park Ridge, down Dee Road to Foster, east to good ol' NPU:  43 minutes.  Return trip: 33 minutes.  C'mon in Dennis.  The water's fine, although it is tough to beat those seatbacks at Wheaton!

nice time Pete - but I'm six miles west of NW highway on Central - that adds 10 to 15 minutes just to get there.

I've made the trip to NPU hundreds of time, Pete, even from Rolling Meadows, but I can't stand watching what I consider is bad basketball.

I applaud the Vikings for their accomplishments this year - and I'll be the first one to admit I thought after seeing them play twice in December that I thought they could only win 3 league games - they've won four already and easily could have had two more - good for them.  They beat Millikin twice (did that last year, too), Millikin has only one win in CCIW play this year; won at IWU (great win, only 5th time in 45 years, wow), but IWU has only one win in CCIW this year.   Biggest surprise was win at North Central - and certainly their most impressive to date.  The Cards stumbled early and North Park played a great game to beat them - the return engagement at NPU should be a great matchup.  But from what I read - with a few less turnovers the Vikes could have beat contenders Elmhurst and Carthage at home.

Tomorrow's game could be a giant win for NPU and a tremendous gain in respectability against a disciplined and well-coached team.  I wish NPU well, but I'll still be at Wheaton.

Glad someone is getting down to the Park from the NW suburbs Pete.

It's still faster for me to go to Elmhurst or Wheaton with a lot less traffic and I know at least one of the teams on the floor will be well coached.

dgp

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Anybody--- with 3 CCIW teams for most of the year and 2 more in the Also Rec. Votes category,  are we (CCIW) almost assured 2-3 teams in the big dance?

It will depend on how many in-region losses each team has.  The competition is so up for grabs that the league might cannibalize itself (a la the WIAC) and only get two.  I think Carthage and Wheaton are both worthy teams, but I don't think that anyone beyond 7 in-region losses has a chance.  Carthage is sitting at 4 right now with 7 games to go (plus the conference tournament) and Wheaton is at 5 with an equally difficult schedule.  Either of those teams is going to have to win out or win the conference tournament to make it in.

I'm fairly confident Augie and Elmhurst can get it, even if they each drop two more games.  I'm not so sure Wheaton or Carthage can afford more than one additional loss and they have to play each other twice still.