MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

And 2 final thoughts on officiating so far this year-----

1. I just love it when the trailing ref who is standing 6-7 feet over the center court line and just inside the right sideline calls a foul on a play that takes place along the baseline 4-5 feet to the left of the basket. Especially when the baseline ref doesn't see any foul. I've seen that happen a couple of times in every game I've been to this year. Not sure how many feet away that is, but you would have to have bionic eyes to see a foul that far away.

2. Numerio uno this year. The ref who has just made a terrible call is standing on the foul line during a time out called just after he whistled the foul. One of the fans of the offending team shouts something at the ref---not complementary to be sure, but also not profane in any way---and the ref, who clearly hears whats said, points up at the fan, and then quickly down at his crotch!     Happened Wed night.   
Sometimes the refs get the abuse they ask for.

AndOne,

In reference to scenario #1, I'm assuming that your refering to a three person crew in which case that is tough to watch.  If it is a two person crew then the likely chances of the trail official making that call are much greater.

In scenario #2, let's hope that an officiating supervisor reviews game tape on a regular basis and that official is "relieved" of his duties.

(modified by GS for quote formatting)

I have watched many sporting events, mostly basketball, from the park district level through professional ranks.  I have seen many bad calls and I have seen many referees make and continue to make bad calls.  And I know that the use of the "bad call" description can be somewhat subjective.  I have seen my teams loose games at the very end because of a "bad call" and I'm sure my teams have won some games because of what fans of the other team would term a "bad call".   I do not whine about such things.  Rather, I fall in line with Elmhurst_Mom's husband.  You can't allow your team to be in a position at the end of the game where the call may decide the outcome

In any event, in all of those instances of "bad calls", I have come away with the feeling that the referee made the call, right or wrong in my mind, because he saw it (or thought he saw it) that way.  For the very first time I saw a referee make calls that I had the feeling had nothing to do with what he actually saw on the court.

Jerry Scherzinger caught the eye of the NCC fans because of several of his calls in the second half.  I was sitting in the stands with the NCC parents and students.  A group of us stood up and pointed at him to display our displeasure with the calls he was making.  As AndOne previously reported, Jerry responded with the lewd gesture.  After the Simmons technical foul and then the second technical foul on the NCC coach, I had the feeling that something just wasn't right with Jerry's calls.   I talked with the NCC head coach after the game to find out what happened and what he might have said to deserve the technical foul.  Evidently, Jerry said something to the NCC bench as he passed by, the coach didn't hear what was said and was following Jerry to ask him to repeat it.  The coach told me that he asked repeatedly, but Jerry would not respond, except with the technical fouls.

It was curious to me that a referee would call a technical foul because a coach asked for him to repeat himself.  I spent a couple days talking to folks who were closer to the bench and might have heard what Jerry said.  I did not actually hear what Jerry said, but from the report I heard from a third party (which I cannot repeat here), what was said was not only unprofessional, it was wrong.  I'm sure there was no way Jerry was going to repeat himself in an area where even more people could here that statement.  He certainly had reason to hide what he had said just a few seconds earlier.

I'd like to know what avenue exists to hold Jerry Scherzinger accountable for his behavior.  No one can prove his motive, but his actions and words were in line with someone who was making calls on the basis of revenge, rather than what he was seeing on the court.  Anyone can do what I did, talk to those involved, find out exactly what was said by whom and to whom.  I did not find any reason for the last two technical fouls; perhaps it was Jerry's way of "getting back" at someone.

The NCC coach's actions were certainly understandable; Jerry Scherzinger was the classless one.

Sideliner------

Thanks for the confirmation of what I had posted a few days ago.

Elmhurst Mom's husb has a point in that a team shouldn't put itself into a situation where a ref's call can make the difference in whether they win or lose. However, I DO think that if such a situation comes up, the ref should make the correct call, and not swallow his whistle just bacause its the final play of the game. However, thats another story/game, and not the one we're referring to here.

Nobody does their job perfectly. Accordingly, we shouldn't expect a ref to, and maybe thats why we have 3 refs doing the games. Anyone can make a mistake where they overlook something or see something in a way that the majority of others present don't. I do want a ref to do 3 things---1) get it right when it happens right in front of him, 2) don't make a call from 40-50 feet away when it looks like there was a violation, and 3) don't let personalities infulence your call.

The ref in the EC-NCC game failed miserably as far as #3. I also talked to some
players and fans who were sitting very close to the action. First, he called a T on
Anthony Simmons (who had already fouled out) when Anthony was talking to a teammate on the bench and gestured toward the official to show the teammate which ref he was talking about. He didn't say anything directly to the ref.   

Additionally, as you advise above, he called TWO Ts on the NCC coach because he had the audacity to question the ref's judgement, and then to just ask him to repeat what he had said.

The final straw was the crude jesture he made toward the fan(s).

Lastly----most of us probably question ref's calls a little more than we should. However, whether you are a fan of the team who benefited from the call or just an interested party, the standard reply of "quit whining" just doesn't apply in every scenario.

[ecdubb420]

Augie 1 dominant home victory
EC 1 dominant home victory.
Lets hope EC can get on a nice little roll and take back home-court advantage for the conference tournament. 
Brent Ruch is very quickly emerging as a candidate for MOP.  Top 5 in: Points (2), Rebounds (1), FG % (1), FT% (3), Steals (2), Blocked Shots (1).  He has been the most consistent player for EC and is showing us that he can be penciled in for 15-8 almost every single game.
My days of dreaming for a dominant Nick Michael (16-18ppg, 8-10boards) seem to be fading fast, but despite not living up to my expectation (1st team CCIW), he is on the verge of being named to his 3rd All-CCIW 3rd team, and I'm hoping he has a few more 20-10 games left in him.  He has fallen in love with the 15+ foot jumper lately and has not been good with those shots, so hopefully he can get his confidence back on the inside block and stop taking these low percentage shots.

EC has really only gone with a 7 man rotation as of late with bits of Aloisio, Ryder, and Childs, but that means if Hintzsche or Bacon is struggling, they better pray the starters are not in foul trouble.

Strzemp sat out again against Augie and though he may be healthy, he certainly is not in playing shape.  His knee problem goes back quite awhile, so his conditioning is shot.  This spectulation eerily remindes me of the Gershenzon watch last year.  Lucking Rob is a sophomore, so worst case scenario we have two (or three) more years out of him.

Last time Ryan Burks was held in single digits he had a nice run of averaging around 20ppg for the next 8 or so games.  Lets hope this glitch is just that, a glitch and not the start of a trend.

Game vs. Millikin will be the teams first CCIW game with all the students back on campus.  Lets hope for a big crowd and for EC to finish avenging all their home-CCIW losses from last season. 

[robberki]

I really think that if North Park can play hard and smart tomorrow, they'll beat Augie. They can definately do it.

[79jaybird]

Well, Augie has 2 tough road games this week, and I have this strong feeling they are going to lose 1 of these games.  Don't know which one, but I would be surprised (not shocked) if they win both this week.
Hoopsfan, thank you for the reply.  I have Augie, Elmhurst, and perhaps 1 more from the CCIW in the big dance, but that is just me.
ECdubb-- I will be there tomorrow and agree with you that the Elmhurst student body has to be voisterous and support their home team.  We both know EC student attendance has been terrible and very fair weather fans.  I hope for a good crowd tomorrow.

[Greek Tragedy]

how has the attendance been at the Shirk Center?

I'm going to take a wild stab by answering, "old."

LOL.  Beat me to it.  Looks like they still show up...not sure what the student to "old" ratio  is, and I'm not sure how loud they are either...apparently they do pretty well...I was told the women's team is pretty good, so not sure if that helps on those double-header days.

11/18 v Ill. College 1800
12/9 v Wash U. 2050
12/16 v U. of Chicago 1400
12/30 v Albion 800
1/6 v Carthage 2000
1/10 v Millikin 2000
1/21 v North Park 800 (coming into this game, 3-game losing streak) ummm. 

Shirk holds 2600

[tuvwxyz]

All it takes is for a CCIW team to not fare well and you have the disappearance of their fans from the boards.... I looked back and it is several pages now since IWU fans posted and then just a post and out.

Just an observation.

[Mr. Ypsi]

OS,

Re: the low attendance for NPU at Shirk - Q already predicted that would be the all-time low for a conference game.  That was a rare Sunday game, up against the Bears!

'end of alphabet',

I can't speak for other Titan posters, but Q and I are still definitely around - just not much to discuss at the moment!  Considering the complaints in previous seasons about all-Titans, all-the-time, count your blessings!

[knarocky22]

I have a gut feeling that Augie is going to win both of their games this week.  I think the IWU game was somewhat of a wake-up call.  I've been wrong lots of times in the past, though.  Hope this isn't one of them. 

Having only seen the game in Rock Island, I find myself wondering how Augie could have lost to Elmhurts by double digits at their place.  I guess Elmhurst fans are wondering the same thing about the game in Rock Island, though.

[Sideliner]

I wish my alma mater well on Wednesday night, but I fear this is another game with 'no cigar' written all over it at the end.

Since your alma mater has been doing quite well this season in the face of your persistent doubt, those of us who share your alma mater who are just a wee bit superstitious heartily endorse both your absence from the crackerbox and your continual naysaying of the Vikings.

As for the stats from last Saturday's win at Millikin - I obviously did not see the game - and I'm betting there weren't many who did - but I have to suggest that perhaps the stat crew also missed their wake-up call.  The low number of assists and turnovers for both teams in an overtime game, between two squads who normally throw it around a lot, leaves me questioning the stat sheet, other than the final score.

On the contrary, the low numbers of assists and turnovers are completely understandable. First, Millikin is third and NPU is fourth in the conference in turnover margin, and neither team is exaggeratedly high in terms of team turnovers by CCIW standards. In terms of Saturday's game, NPU's 13 turnovers were only two under the team's average in CCIW play. Millikin, on the other hand, turned the ball over 21 times -- and that's over seven turnovers more than the Big Blue averages per game. Second, NPU is seventh and Millikin is eighth in the league in assists. Both teams are much more adept at beating opponents off the dribble and taking the ball to the basket than they are at scoring via ball reversal, screens, and cuts. In other words, while the assist totals were low, these are the two teams in the CCIW most likely to run up low assist totals in a game.

I'd like to know what avenue exists to hold Jerry Scherzinger accountable for his behavior.

Each referee is evaluated by the coaches. The CCIW supervisor of officials takes these evaluations very seriously with regard to the ongoing certification of officials used by the league. In addition, each head coach has recourse to blocking (I think) one official per year from working his team's games.

If Jerry Scherzinger made an obscene gesture to a fan while on the court, and it gets back to CCIW officials supervisor Ken Maziarka, Scherzinger's tenure as a CCIW referee could be in jeopardy

Gregory, we'll see if Ken can do something about Jerry's performance.  Thanks for the tip.

(modified by GS for quote formatting)

[markerickson]

ALL the stars need to be aligned in order for the city Vikes to defeat the seafaring Vikes.

I've noticed a disturbing trend at Foster and Kedzie.  Just like the UC, HHH Metrodome, and other athletic venues, "music" gets piped in during lulls in action.  Thus, what is left of the Carlson Crazies (which is a morsel) can't chant due to some blaring programmed music.

Given the surge is wins, coupled by the marked enrollment increase over the last 5-10 years, I am appalled by the poor student turnout this year.

[Titan Q]

An article from the Pantagraph on tomorrow's IWU/NCC game and the fact that 5 Normal Community H.S. teammates will play...

Zach Freeman (IWU)
Andrew Freeman (IWU)
Jason Bloom (IWU)

Adam Krumtinger (NCC)
Chris Drennan (NCC)

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/01/30/sports/123045.txt


To have that many from the same H.S. get on the floor in a game has to be pretty rare.

[Gregory Sager]

GS- yep, its all me - I stayed away from North Park and they lost at home to Wheaton (in a game that even you, the NPU 'pollyanna of all-time', the only fan ever to be assigned a seat behind the bench, said they played poorly - but I guess that was my fault, too) 

and I stayed away from a loss at home to Elmhurst, my fault, sorry NPU alums

and I stayed away from a loss at home to Carthage, ditto.

I have complimented North Park on their wins this year and I am over-joyed to see them garner some success and respectability, after years of running a one-ring circus under the five championship banners (which by the way they continue to claim as a heritage while doing little to add to the historic legacy of NP basketball success).  My gosh they took the Hall of Fame plaques down from the wall of the lobby five years ago and has any one seen the NCAA championship trophies.  IWU has one national championship and they have a whole display case devoted to just that one team.

But excuse me if I express an opinion - Mr. Sager - you are still a pollyanna, and I would rather go to games that I know I will enjoy.  I "have" a lifetime CCIW pass that I earned and it gives me the unqualified right to go and enjoy any CCIW contest I want to attend.

April was right, in her own evangelical way, you can't stand to be proven wrong, can you Greg?  As long as the opinion is one you share you're happy.

... watch the HoF goon squad come out on this one.

MW 70:3

Pop machine at ELCA headquarters run out of Pepsi again, Dennis?

Check out that CCIW site sometime. Lots of good stats 'n' things.

[Gregory Sager]

ALL the stars need to be aligned in order for the city Vikes to defeat the seafaring Vikes.

"Seafaring Vikes"? Did Augustana move the campus from Rock Island to Cape Cod or something? Dansand, knarocky, and augiefan, you guys must've been holding out on us with that tidbit.

I've noticed a disturbing trend at Foster and Kedzie.  Just like the UC, HHH Metrodome, and other athletic venues, "music" gets piped in during lulls in action.  Thus, what is left of the Carlson Crazies (which is a morsel) can't chant due to some blaring programmed music.

I'd be able to live with it a little better if the house CD player wasn't so messed up that it makes the CDs skip every time that Viking Blue exhales or nudges his microphone.

Given the surge is wins, coupled by the marked enrollment increase over the last 5-10 years, I am appalled by the poor student turnout this year.

We all are -- all of us NPU alumni who post here and who bother to go to games, such as Rob and tjcf and Viking Blue and I, are upset about the low student turnout, and we've all voiced our disappointment with it on CCIW Chat at one time or another. But Rome wasn't built in a day. It took the NPU men's basketball program several years to lose the student support it once had. It won't reappear overnight. Right now there's no buzz, and no established campus tradition of setting aside two nights a week to watch the basketball team. It's not part of the normal routine for resident undergrads the way it was back in the day, and the younger students aren't inculcated in the importance of Vikings basketball from the first day that they set foot on the campus the way that we were. The Vikings are going to have to resume winning with a good degree of frequency in order to lure back the students and re-establish North Park hoops as a prominent part of student life. Losing close games, even to ranked teams, probably isn't going to cut it in that regard.

It's not as though the current generation of Parkers is indifferent to the school's sports teams. The students flock to NPU men's soccer matches. It's no coincidence that that's the team on campus that consistently wins all the time. As Q said several weeks ago with regard to NPU's basketball program and how it relates to the slumping student attendance, if you build it they will come. Well, it ain't built ... yet.

[Gregory Sager]

Out of 403 D3 teams (both full and provisional members), here's how the CCIW's teams stack up in the current Massey ratings, adjusted for margin of victory:

7. Augustana
9. Elmhurst
26. Carthage
27. Wheaton
59. North Park
64. North Central
100. Illinois Wesleyan
164. Millikin

In terms of conference strength, the CCIW is rated #1, ahead of the #2 WIAC and #3 UAA by a pretty prodigious margin.

[Scream]

As a former Crazy, I feel it is my duty to stand up.  I agree with Sager in that the enthusiasm of fans (especially students) will drift towards the team with the W's.  But even in my tenure as a Crazy just a short time ago the W's were less than what they are now and the Crazies then outnumbered the current regime at least 3 to 1.  I think the low numbers also are a result of this team not really having a superstar.  That doesn't speak too highly of myself and the crazies four or five years ago.  It kind of suggests that we'd rather watch one guy with supposed D1 or D2 ability than a bunch of guys who just work together.  I mean, I made a comment to Rob last week about how all but two or so guys on the promotional posters don't even contribute on the varsity team.  That really shows that this Park team is more of a 'team' than recent years and until that concept produces W's consistently, many of the students and fans unfortunately just won't come.  I think we're all cautiously optimistic and excited about the way things look, but many people need results first.