MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[tjcummingsfan]

Lastly, people who criticize Giovanine and his coaching style are more or less jealous that he is now one of the more dominating coaches in the CCIW.  He came to Augie in '99 and has since then done wonders for the Vikings.  If Augie wins another big road game at Carthage this weekend then the Vikes are looking at a second straight CCIW crown with three of their last four at home.

Pretty sure people don't rip in to Coach Harris when Wheaton is doing well, not too much has been said about Bosko, or Scherer, or Raridon even.  I don't think its a jealousy thing, althought that's a nice try.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Coach G. gets a little too "heated" on the sidelines at times.  I just don't think it gives anyone the right to say he's not a good role model, especially when they don't know him personally.

You're right we don't know him personally, but his actions on the court are not the actions of a good role model.  I would hate to think that all his players are going to end up coaching like he does in the games.

[Titan Q]

What on earth could the reasoning be for not makeing it an 8 team tournament and adding that extra game as exempt?

This seems like silly semantics to me.

I would agree that it is "silly semantics."  It just sounds like they want to say that every sport has the same 4-team conference tournament setup...I have no idea why really.

I will post the link to the archived interview with Chris as soon as it is up on WJBC2.com.

It's not "silly semantics", because it's going to cost everybody a regular-season game that they could certainly use either to fatten the regional record by taking on a NAthC, MWC, or SLIAC opponent or to toughen up the team by taking on a quality opponent in a setting that wouldn't necessarily have to hurt one's tournament chances. That's a very tangible difference, not a semantic one.

True, but every year it seems all 8 CCIW teams play at least one non-conference game that does neither of those things (at least going in, on paper).  Like from this year...

Elmhurst vs IIT
Elmhurst vs Alma
Elmhurst vs Gwynedd-Mercy

Wheaton vs Northwestern (IA)
Wheaton vs Nazareth
Wheaton vs Rivier
Wheaton vs Baruch

Carthage vs Olivet
Carthage vs Marietta

North Park vs Judson

North Central vs East-West
North Central vs Harris-Stowe
North Central vs Gwyedd-Mercy

IWU vs Judson

Millikin vs IU-Northwest
Millikin vs West Coast Baptist



Everyone will just need to be a little more selective in scheduling non-conference individual games and tournaments...that's all.

Oops!

Q--------U forgot one team! How 'bout.............

Augie vs Beloit
Augie vs Clarke
Augie vs Rockford 

Additionally, some of the above games took place in tournaments. A team really can't do anything about that.

AndOne,

I didn't forget Augie.  When I looked at their non-conference schedule, I realized that all 11 games they played were either games "that they could certainly use either to fatten the regional record by taking on a NAthC, MWC, or SLIAC opponent or to toughen up the team by taking on a quality opponent in a setting that wouldn't necessarily have to hurt one's tournament chances."  (Greg's quote)  Augie played 10 in-region games and one vs their Quad City rival St. Ambrose - a solid NAIA program.  In other words, all 11 non-conference games had some sort of value.  Those wins vs Beloit, Rockford, and Clarke are huge in terms of in-region winning %.

http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Augustana&team=m

I listed games that I didn't think had much value at all (games out-of-region vs teams that aren't particularly good).

[Titan Q]

I'm a Coach G fan.

[Brick]

The players that are playing in the games are young men they don't need a coach as a role model...they need someone that is intense, competive, and will win at all costs...this is not peewee basketball winning means quite a bit!

[dansand]

So, if #8 knocks off #1 (unlikely, but not inconceivable), the four tournament participants head off to the home of the regular season champion, who won't be playing?

No.  The 4-team conclave would be hosted by the highest remaining "seed."  Cf:

CCIW commissioner Chris Martin visited with us at halftime on WJBC and explained a significant change in the men's basketball conference tournament structure.  Beginning in 2008-09, there will be an 8-team "play in" on the Wednesday before conference tournament weekend.  8 will visit 1, 7 goes to 2, etc.  The 4 winners will be in the conference tournament, which will be played at the highest "seed" remaining (I put "seed" in quotes for the reasons noted below.)

[emphasis added]

Sorry. I should have read more carefully.

"Equity" is a very politically correct word. In most cases its likely the right way to go. In theory, equity is a sound mode of operation, However, on the practical side it sometimes makes no sense at all. I have a lot of trouble believing the sum total of the attendance at ALL the women's sports combined at the vast majority of DIII schools comes anywhere near the attendance for just men's football & basketball. Shouldn't the sports that bring in the most revenue and/or interest the most fans 
interest be entitled some extra percentage of the revenue?

Equity isn't about revenue or fan support, it's about opportunity.  I can see that the conference would have an interest in ensuring equal opportunities for all athletes, regardless of gender or sport, irrespective of revenue generation or attendance figures, whether or not I agree with a policy that springs from that interest.

I have to agree with David on this one. If college sports had to fund themselves with their own revenue the only sports you would have would be D1 football and basketball. That's not to say that there aren't other programs that produce enough revenue to fund themselves (Tennessee's women's basketball, for example, I imagine) but I'm not sure there would be enough others for them to play a schedule.

Although at the highest level of D1 they are, college sports should not be viewed as a commercial venture, otherwise most men's D1 and probably all D2, D3, NAIA and women's programs wouldn't exist. They just don't produce enough revenue. That's also the reason why the arguments for "paying" college athletes are ridiculous.

As far as the Grey Giovanine brouhaha goes, I like the guy so I'll stay out of it except to say that Dennis inadvertantly paid him a huge compliment (and a well-deserved one) by mentioning him in the same sentence as Jim Borcherding.

[79jaybird]

Congrats to Millikin on a big win last night.
My first reaction after the final horn rang last night, was Millikin deserved this win and Elmhurst did not.  The Bluejays squandered 2 big leads, had a chance to tie the game and coughed the ball up on a low percentage passplay.
I can't figure out this team (Elmhurst).  At times they looked great and looked like they were going to blow out Millikin, and then there were times Millikin made Elmhurst look slow and sluggish.  
I hate to say this, and I hope the Jays prove me wrong on Saturday, but this team is inconsistent, and not "gaining momentum" towards the post-season.  They are in no way, shape, or form guaranteed a spot in the post-season right now and have some big boppers left on their schedule.  Whatever you guys have to do to get that "hunger" back,  I hope they get it soon!

The keys last night in my mind were 2 things
A) Stellar Guard play by Millikin  and sharp shooting by Gensler.  The Big Blue started connecting on 3 pointers and opened up some weaknesses on the EC defense.
B) Nick Michael was quiet!  For his size, he is not as effective as he could be.  The only guy penetrating inside last night was Ruch.  Nobody could stop Brent inside last night, but Ruch (and Burks) cannot be the lone rangers.  
Ahh,  all this boils down to is consistency and confidence, and lack there of.  This is not the same team that knocked off Augie, beat Carthage in WI, and beat NPU in Chicago.  Somewhere between the Wheaton loss and the Augie game, the Jays lost their cohesiveness.  GET IT BACK!!!!  There is still have the CCIW season left to go and you are in 2nd place.  Fight hard down in Bloomington where you know the Titans play very well.
OK,  all things aside, Augie is poised to repeat as CCIW Champs and are looking very good right now.  Talked to Coach Giovanine and he is pretty happy with his team right now, sighting that each week they seem to be getting stronger and trusting each other more.

This is the 2nd straight year Millikin has upset us on our home court, but tonight I feel was more about who wanted the W more, and the Big Blue deserved the win.  

[Titan Q]

Tonight at 6:00pm (CST) on ESPN2, Loyola Academy (20-0) takes on North Central H.S. (10-3) of Indianapolis -- a nice little Chicago/Indy pre-Superbowl matchup now that I think about it.   Loyola, of course, features Michael Jordan's two sons -- senior Jeffrey (who seems to be down to Loyola U. and Illinois State) and sophomore Marcus, who projects out as a high major D1 player.  Former Bear Matt Suhey's son Joe also plays for Loyola -- he is heading to Penn St on a football scholarship.  North Central features the superstar who first verballed to U. of Illinois and then changed his mind in favor of Indiana U. -- sounds like Eric Gordon is the real deal.

I mention here because about 5 or 6 CCIW schools seem to be on Loyola's steady little point-guard D.J. Glavan.  A chance to scout a potential future CCIW player on national TV.

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles1/loyolanc1.html


I will, of course, be rooting for the Chicago Catholic League team!

[Superfoot Wallace]

That North Central team is led by Eric Gordon of Minnesotta-Indiana recruiting lore.  Gordon is the guy who was able to upset the Ohio State errr.  Lawrence North Greg Odens.

Thanks for the heads up on the game.  Something to listen to while writing this evening.

signed,
the 04 Atlanta Hawks (Robinson, Henderson and that guy from AZ)

[knarocky22]

As much as I really really really don't like most Catholic high schools, I don't think I could ever root against a Jordan.........unless he went to IWU.

By the way, Eric Gordon is of Illinois-Indiana recruiting lore.  Don't really know where you got that Minnesota thing from.  Also, the "Ohio State errr.  Lawrence North Greg Odens" beat North Central last year on ESPN.

[dansand]

That North Central team is led by Eric Gordon of Minnesotta-Indiana recruiting lore.  Gordon is the guy who was able to upset the Ohio State errr.  Lawrence North Greg Odens.

Thanks for the heads up on the game.  Something to listen to while writing this evening.

signed,
the 04 Atlanta Hawks (Robinson, Henderson and that guy from AZ)

I think you mean Illinois-Indiana recruiting lore. Also, Lawrence North has beaten North Central the last four times they've played, although NC did win their first meeting two years ago. Aaah...knarocky beat me to it.

[Superfoot Wallace]

Mustve confused him with the big Courtney feller from Pike a few years back as I was trying to remember the name of the other Indiana high schooler on that Hawks team.

signed,
George Macon

[tjcummingsfan]

The players that are playing in the games are young men they don't need a coach as a role model...they need someone that is intense, competive, and will win at all costs...this is not peewee basketball winning means quite a bit!

Might be the stupidest thing I've seen said on this board, well maybe not the stupidest but way up there.  Every coach is a role model, and everyone needs someone to look up to and learn from.

[Brick]

Now we're back to name calling...you have your opinions I have mine...we don't agree no need for saying somone's post is stupid....

[AndOne]

Augie2000------

Despite what several people on here seem to think, I believe you are right when you say we are all entitled to our own opinions. So-----------------I won't call you stupid, or any other name.

However, I do have a question. You said players need a coach that can win at ALL costs.

Did you really mean that? Illegal recruiting, steroids, etc---ALL costs?

[diehardfan]

I'm a Coach G fan.

Adorable pic of Coach G and family....
If you prick me, do I not bleed? 

I am personally very glad that Wheaton has Coach Harris over anyone, and I love the way he sorta just smiles and laughs knowingly at the refs when he's frusterated at the calls.... and his occasional random technicals that make you think.... huh? But lets not be jerks here to a living breathing person. Coach G is great at what he does and over the years it seems that despite the cursing and what not, his players would do anything for him.  So, the much discussed sideline show is obviously not all that's there at all.

I really don't understand why this board so often feels the needs to be inhuman toward coaches, players, posters etc. who love this special sport we follow. But, it's a terribly sad, sad thing to have to read just to adequately follow my team.