MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

I agree, if EC wins, Ruch has excellent credentials.

And whats everyone's opinion as far as MOP if someone other than Elmhurst wins?

Augie---------Dain Swetalla ? 
Wheaton----Kent Raymond ?

Yes I'm biased, but another candidate who is highly ranked in many categories and could very well be the best all around player in the conference is Dan Walton of NCC.

Question 2---Should MOP be based only on what players do in the conference or should it be based on the TOTAL SEASON LONG performance of t6he players?

My vote is for the ENTIRE season. I think thats how a player should be measured.

[Titan Q]

I think Mr. B was looking at an old NCAA record book.  The current version is here:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/basketball/m_basketball_records_book/2007/2007_m_basketball_records.pdf

Consecutive free throws made (season):

Division I: 73, Gary Buchanan, Villanova (21 games from 11/17/00 to 2/12/01)
Division II: 94, Paul Kluxton, Northern Kentucky (34 games from 11/8/96 to 3/20/97)
Division III: 59, Mike Mickelson, Coast Guard (13 games from 1/16/90 to 2/27/90)

Consecutive free throws made (career):

Division I: 85, Darnell Archey, Butler (57 games, 2/15/01 to 1/18/03
Division II: (record not listed for some reason)
Division III: 84, Dirk Rhinehart, Kalamazoo (16 games from 00-01 to 12/17/01)*

* This broke Korey Coon's record of 70 mentioned above


IWU's Korey Coon owns the D3 record for FT% in a season: 96.3%, 157-163 (1999-2000)

(Paul Cluxton of Northern Kentucky holds the all-division record, which will never be broken.  He went an amazing 94-94 for Division II Northern Kentucky in 1996-97.)


IWU owns the team record for team FT% in a game (minimum 30 made), going 35-36 (.972) vs North Park 2/18/03 in that crazy Titan comeback (down 20 with 8:33 to play).  The villain, you ask?  John Camardella...

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2003/Miwu22.htm

[Titan Q]

Question 2---Should MOP be based only on what players do in the conference or should it be based on the TOTAL SEASON LONG performance of t6he players?

My vote is for the ENTIRE season. I think thats how a player should be measured.

Schedules vary too much.  Some teams play great non-conference schedules, some do not.  The best measure is CCIW-only play.

Brian Schlemm had 36 vs Grinnell...not everyone got to play Grinnell.  (Grinnell is good this year, but we all realize how stats are skewed in that game.)  David Noell (Wheaton) had 22 vs Principia (1-16 overall, 1-11 SLIAC).

[ecdubb420]

I believe that MOP should be for the CCIW conference season.  I also believe that the best player on the best team should not be a shoe-in for the award.  If Augie wins this year it is equally becuase of Wessels as it is Swetella as it is Delp, cont. 
Still way too much basketball to be played, and probably about a dozen players who would still have a chance at claiming this award if the cards fall the right way.
Any idea where one would find the regional rankings that I recall reading come out sometime this week?

[Dennis_Prikkel]

I watched the second half of the Texas at Texas A & M game last night on ESPN with the sound off (Dickie V).  What an enjoyable and exciting game to watch.

The guards and the forwards from both teams attacked the basket with drive penetration time and again whether the defense was man to man or zone.  

And German to our discussion here was the fact that almost in every single instance as soon as a defender made any attempt to beat the driver to the baseline a blocking foul was called on the defender.

But when the driving player attacked down the middle the referees gave the defense wide latitude to knock the drivee on his butt as he finished the shot.

A real fun game to watch - and as this so closely follows (minus the break-neck speed of the DI guards of course) how the game was played Carthage at Wheaton and another game I saw at Elmhurst (Sorry can't remember who), I just wonder if this was a "Referees point of emphasis" for 2006-07, mandated by the NCAA or the basketball officials association (whoever puts those out before each season).

If so this would explain why they let Raymond get mugged if he brings it down the middle, but call cheapy defensive fouls if he brings it from the side.

When Wheaton lost at North Central the Thunder couldn't get a shot off when they brought it down the middle, either.

MW 70:3

[AndOne]

I believe that MOP should be for the CCIW conference season.  I also believe that the best player on the best team should not be a shoe-in for the award.  If Augie wins this year it is equally becuase of Wessels as it is Swetella as it is Delp, cont. 
Still way too much basketball to be played, and probably about a dozen players who would still have a chance at claiming this award if the cards fall the right way.
Any idea where one would find the regional rankings that I recall reading come out sometime this week?

ecdubb----

I agree that the best player on the best team should NOT be a shoe-in. However, I think its very lodgical to say a primary reason the best team is the best team is because of the play of its best player. I believe Ruch is the best player on Elmhurst. If they win, as Ruch is so highly ranked in so many catagories, I believe he should win MOP

If Elmhurst does not win it, find me a more versitle, talented, ALL-AROUND performer than Dan Walton of North Central-----when you do---give him the award.
If you don't---give it to Walton.

[petemcb]

I believe that MOP should be for the CCIW conference season.  I also believe that the best player on the best team should not be a shoe-in for the award.  If Augie wins this year it is equally becuase of Wessels as it is Swetella as it is Delp, cont. 
Still way too much basketball to be played, and probably about a dozen players who would still have a chance at claiming this award if the cards fall the right way.
Any idea where one would find the regional rankings that I recall reading come out sometime this week?

ecdubb----

I agree that the best player on the best team should NOT be a shoe-in. However, I think its very lodgical to say a primary reason the best team is the best team is because of the play of its best player. I believe Ruch is the best player on Elmhurst. If they win, as Ruch is so highly ranked in so many catagories, I believe he should win MOP

If Elmhurst does not win it, find me a more versitle, talented, ALL-AROUND performer than Dan Walton of North Central-----when you do---give him the award.
If you don't---give it to Walton.

Is this assuming North Central wins it?  I like Walton as an all-round player, but I like Raymond, Freeman, and Ruch as all-round players too.  I, unlike the majority of opinions I read and hear at all levels of sports, feel that the MOP should not have to be on the conference/league-winning team, or even, necessarily, on a plus .500 team.  An outstanding season is an outstanding season, and will not always result in a stellar team performance over the course of a season.  While it will always be subjective judgement, there must be a way to recognize the most outstanding player in a season  -  winning team or not.  Andre Dawson comes to mind on some woeful Cubs teams.

At this point of the season, it is hard to argue with what Ruch has accomplished, statistically.....regardless of where Elmhurst finishes and how far they go into March.

[79jaybird]

One other thing you have to look at when deciding a MVP, MOP, etc.  is this.  Where would the team be without him (the candidate)?
I think Ruch is a great player and think he is a first team AC candidate.  However, I do think Elmhurst would be close to where they are at, without him.
IWU would not even be close to where they are currently at without Freeman, who has been the backbone of the team all year.  This is why IMO, I would give it to Freeman right now.
Wheaton has Standard, Wiele, and Panner up and coming, which makes me think they would still be close to their current setting without Raymond.
Walton, well I know AndOne has the nationalistic pride like I do for Elmhurst.    I think Walton is a good player, but IMO not in the same class as the other 3.

[Late nite]

Finally we agree on something---My vote goes to Walton---He is toughest matchup in the league for most teams---Swetalla as MOP for Augie?---PLEASE---Wessels is the most important player on that team---BY FAR!!

I agree, if EC wins, Ruch has excellent credentials.

And whats everyone's opinion as far as MOP if someone other than Elmhurst wins?

Augie---------Dain Swetalla ? 
Wheaton----Kent Raymond ?

Yes I'm biased, but another candidate who is highly ranked in many categories and could very well be the best all around player in the conference is Dan Walton of NCC.

Question 2---Should MOP be based only on what players do in the conference or should it be based on the TOTAL SEASON LONG performance of t6he players?

My vote is for the ENTIRE season. I think thats how a player should be measured.

[bluejaybacker1]

Ah yes, the topic of MOP comes up again. We all agree that there are a few players who are at the top and are in the running for this award. Then the whole discussion of does the player have to come from the championship team? I don't think it should, but it always seems too. I may be a little baised, but the past comes up quickly when I think of this topic and Chris Martin immediately comes to mind. I think of his numbers and where the team would have been without him. The last two years he led them to second place finishes in the CCIW. His numbers were high in many categories yet he never won it. The year Wheaton was very good with Komoldin and company they finished 21-4 that year I believe and got snubbed from the tourney? Martin's number were very high that year and I believe he was actually ahead of Joel in Points and Boards I am not sure. The Bluejays that year did very poorly though so he was never really in the running which is fair considering they took 7th. The next year he takes them to second in the conference. With numbers that were just a hair lower, but still at the top in most categories. He wasn't named MOP. Snubbed... that's up for debate, but where would the team have been without him? Same for the year following. I am not saying there weren't others in the conference that weren't right there with him such as Harrigan, Dauksas, and Keelan to name a few. I think we will probably be in the same situation this year unless someone ties Augie for 1st or is only a game behind. The team that wins probably will have the MOP. 

[coebball70]

Is MOP for Most Outstanding Player?  If it's a CCIW award then, of course, it should be based on conference-only play.  Right now, my vote would be for Wheaton's Raymond based on the difference he has made to that team versus last year's performance.  Ruch's conference statistics are tough to argue with and, without a doubt, he's contributed the most to Elmhurst's success.  But, like Augie, Elmhurst plays excellent team basketball and there are three other players (Michaels, Lee, and the other post player) who contribute every game.
Walton is amazing.  I have seen him play three times and each time he gets a double-double in a workman like fashion.  There STILL is a whole lot of basketball to be played before this award is decided.

[Titan Q]

Here is my list of 12 players I think have a shot at the 1st or 2nd team All-CCIW, with how I'd rank them (split by post and perimeter).

(current CCIW-only stats)


Post players

1) Zach Freeman, 6-7 Sr. (IWU)

23.4 ppg
7.9 rpg
74-125 FG (.592)
61-72 FT (.847)

2) Brent Ruch, 6-9 So. (Elmhurst)

17.4 ppg
8.4 rpg
60-86 FG (.698)
35-40 FT (.875)

3) Dan Walton, 6-5 Sr. (NCC):

15.7 ppg
7.4 rpg
61-100 FG (.610)
17-21 FT (.810)

4) Dain Swetalla, 6-9 Jr. (Augustana)

15.4 ppg
5.1 rpg
58-93 FG (.624)
38-52 FT (.731)

5) Brian Schlemm, 6-7 Sr. (Carthage)

18.1 ppg
7.4 rpg
55-107 FG (.514)
47-66 FT (.712)

6) Nick Michael, 6-10 Sr. (Elmhurst)

11.8 ppg
6.9 rpg
39-82 FG (.476)
24-33 FT (.727)

7) Anthony Simmons, 6-6 Sr. (NCC)

12.9 ppg
5.7 rpg
43-80 FG (.538)
23-31 FT (.742)


Perimeter Players

1) Kent Raymond, 6-3 So. (Wheaton):

19.0 ppg
3.2 rpg/3.2 apg
48-115 FG (.417)
63-72 FT (.875)

2) Drew Wessels, 6-1 Sr. (Augustana)

8.9 ppg
2.7 rpg/5.1 apg
24-50 FG (.480)
34-40 FT (.850)

3) Ryan Burks, 6-4 So. (Elmhurst)

18.1 ppg
2.4 rpg/1.7 apg
43-84 FG (.512)
53-55 FT (.964)

4) Drew Gensler, 6-0 So. (Millikin)

16.0 ppg
2.7 rpg/2.8 apg
51-117 FG (.436)
33-49 FT (.673

5) Brian Lee, 5-10 Sr. (Elmhurst)

12.4 ppg
2.2 rpg/4.4 apg
38-74 FG (.514)
27-38 FT (.511)

[dansand]

I have a tough time believing anyone from Augie will win the Fred Young award, even though they have a great shot at winning the conference. They're just too balanced. As crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't be shocked if they don't have a first-team All-CCIW pick (although I think Wessels and Dain are both deserving--a lot depends on their last four games).

I haven't seen Walton play this year, but he was very impressive in the CCIW tournament last year. I just think the Cardinals' (to this point) disappointing season, fairly or not, will work against him.

Same with Zach Freeman. I think on a team that's very likely to finish below .500 in the league, he would have to be significantly better than anyone else to win the MOP and I just don't see a big gap between he and Ruch.

Right now Ruch would be my pick. I'd even have to disagree with Jaybird a little as to where Elmhurst would be without him. They'd certainly still be very good, but I don't think there would be talk of contending for a national championship if he weren't at Elmhurst. Plus, his play has peaked during the conference season.

[Titan Q]

I think the best two players in the league, all things considered, are Zach Freeman and Kent Raymond.  I think if you asked the 8 coaches who they have to gameplan for the most and who has the biggest impact on games, it'd be those two.

Not saying those are the two top M.O.P. candidates, but in my opinion the two best basketball players.

[dansand]

I think, looking at Q's list, that Freeman, Ruch, Walton, and Raymond are pretty good bets to take up four of the first team picks (as we know, they don't pick by position). That leaves a pretty good collection of guys contending for the final spot (unless there's a tie or something and they end up with a six-man 1st team).