MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[David Collinge]

Unless the Coaches Association intended from the get-go to select two coaches for this award, I would say that there was merely a tie in the voting for Coach of the Year, resulting in two awards (i.e. co-Coach of the Year.)  I do not think it is erroneous or misleading for each to be called "Coach of the Year," as I imagine that's what the plaque says.  It might be more accurate for Augustana's website to say that "Giovanine was voted Coach of the Year, an award he shared with Todd Raridon," but I don't think it is incorrect for Augustana to omit this information.

[AndOne]

David----

So you're choosing "not incorrect" over "more accurate." ?     

[David Collinge]

David----

So you're choosing "not incorrect" over "more accurate." ?     

Of course I am.  Would you think it better if it said "Grey Giovanine and Todd Raridon tied in the voting for Coach of the Year with x votes, followed by Coach One with y votes, Coach Two with z votes, ..."  That'd be more accurate, wouldn't it? 

If this were the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association, I think it would be misleading to name one coach and not the other.  But I don't think it is misleading for each school to tout the accomplishments of their own coach, each of whom I believe (not having seen the documents) can rightly call themselves the Coach of the Year.

[rknuppel]

So Wheaton comes in ahead of Elmhurst in the first regional rankings.  How do you all feel about that one?

Just a little funny to see Elmhurst as #12 in the nation yet #6 in the region!?!?  I realize it's an entirely different set of criteria that goes into each ranking - just looks a little screwy.

[79jaybird]

 EC/W have 1 more game together.  What if Wheaton loses to Augie tonight.  That means in common opponent Wheaton would be 0-2 while Elmhurst is 1-1.  Does that have any influence or is it just solely head-to-head?

[diehardfan]

So Wheaton comes in ahead of Elmhurst in the first regional rankings.  How do you all feel about that one?

Pretty darn awesome....  but I'm guessing you weren't asking me. 8) Especially given the whole Pool C thing... not that we have a chance for one of those unless we win out and then lose in the Conference tourney final.....

But honestly, I like how Wheaton plays better when they are unranked so it makes me nervous. Hopefully my guys can stay hungry despite the #25 ranking and the ranking in the Midwest region! 

I do not know the facts about the COY awards from last year, but I can guarantee you that if the information on the Augie website is inaccurate, it is not intentional or in any way an attempt to deceive visitors to the site. Dave Wrath, the SID at Augie, who I assume is responsible for the content on the Augie site,is one of the real stanup guys in small college athletics.

Although he is a "diehard" Augie fan, Dave is also a friend and promoter of the CCIW in general. If there is an error email Dave, and he will correct it. I think Q and others in the know on this board will vouch for Dave W's integrity.

I am a huge fan of Dave Wrath. I haven't seen him in years and it's definitly my loss, I assue you.  There's no way it was intentionally misleading... people don't become HOF SIDs by being intentionally misleading.... And if anyone continues to talk badly about Dave I will have to get mean. 

Anyhow, the little handouts of stats that people can get in Rock Island put everyone to shame.... but especially the SCIAC SIDs.  I hope Augie people know how lucky they are to have him!

[dansand]

When a great future PRO like Sikma scores 2272 ending in '77 it kinda boggles my mind (how 'bout anyone else's?) that Bill Warden scored 2249 for North Central ENDING IN 1955! This of course was before the 3 point shot and when basketball was played at a MUCH slower pace!

Before the 3-point shot is correct. Much slower pace? Not even close:
Average field goal attempts per team per game in 1955: 69.3; 1977: 64.9; 2006: 55.6.
The record is 70.3 in 1952.

Average free throw attempts per team per game in 1955: 32.4; 1977: 20.5; 2006: 20.1.
The record is 32.9 in 1953.

These are D1 statistics, but I'd be willing to bet the same trends occured at the small college level.

I wouldn't even point this out if we weren't involved in this silly semantic pissing contest over Grey Giovanine's Coach of the Year award. C'mon man, support your team, but don't be petty.

"...North Central bounced back to not only win its first College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Championship since 1960..."

That's from North Central's football website. Using the same logic, that would be just as "incorrect" because it was a tri-championship with Wheaton and Augie.

[dansand]

I am a huge fan of Dave Wrath. I haven't seen him in years and it's definitly my loss, I assue you.  There's no way it was intentionally misleading... people don't become HOF SIDs by being intentionally misleading.... And if anyone continues to talk badly about Dave I will have to get mean. 

Anyhow, the little handouts of stats that people can get in Rock Island put everyone to shame.... but especially the SCIAC SIDs.  I hope Augie people know how lucky they are to have him!

You're right April. And, yes, they do know how lucky they are to have him. Dave made it a point to seek me out and introduce himself to me and offer his assistance if I was ever looking for any info (and I'm just some schmoe who shows up at the football and basketball games). He's a class act.

[AndOne]

I do not know the facts about the COY awards from last year, but I can guarantee you that if the information on the Augie website is inaccurate, it is not intentional or in any way an attempt to deceive visitors to the site. Dave Wrath, the SID at Augie, who I assume is responsible for the content on the Augie site,is one of the real stanup guys in small college athletics.

Although he is a "diehard" Augie fan, Dave is also a friend and promoter of the CCIW in general. If there is an error email Dave, and he will correct it. I think Q and others in the know on this board will vouch for Dave W's integrity.

I am a huge fan of Dave Wrath. I haven't seen him in years and it's definitly my loss, I assue you.  There's no way it was intentionally misleading... people don't become HOF SIDs by being intentionally misleading.... And if anyone continues to talk badly about Dave I will have to get mean. 

Anyhow, the little handouts of stats that people can get in Rock Island put everyone to shame.... but especially the SCIAC SIDs.  I hope Augie people know how lucky they are to have him!

Whoever mentioned the name of Dave Wrath as doing anything whatsoever wrong?

[79jaybird]

Dansand,  thank you and I replied to your personal email address.  Dave Wrath really helped me "get started" 7 years ago when I was a little minnow in the broadcasting pond.  Here we were playing Augie when Elmhurst was really down and lost 62-0 the previous year. He comes up to me in the Augie Pressbox and says, "Just relax, remember dead air is a no-no, and just try to find something to keep your audience attentive."  What a great way to ease into a broadcast when you are still young and relatively new.
Then last year at the Augie Regional, Dave was a great help with our preparations and helping with the stats/stuff during the games.  

[AndOne]

When a great future PRO like Sikma scores 2272 ending in '77 it kinda boggles my mind (how 'bout anyone else's?) that Bill Warden scored 2249 for North Central ENDING IN 1955! This of course was before the 3 point shot and when basketball was played at a MUCH slower pace!

Before the 3-point shot is correct. Much slower pace? Not even close:
Average field goal attempts per team per game in 1955: 69.3; 1977: 64.9; 2006: 55.6.
The record is 70.3 in 1952.

Average free throw attempts per team per game in 1955: 32.4; 1977: 20.5; 2006: 20.1.
The record is 32.9 in 1953.

These are D1 statistics, but I'd be willing to bet the same trends occured at the small college level.

I wouldn't even point this out if we weren't involved in this silly semantic pissing contest over Grey Giovanine's Coach of the Year award. C'mon man, support your team, but don't be petty.

"...North Central bounced back to not only win its first College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Championship since 1960..."

That's from North Central's football website. Using the same logic, that would be just as "incorrect" because it was a tri-championship with Wheaton and Augie.

Dan----SHAME ON YOU!

You told the truth, but not the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

The evidence-----If you would have bothered to quote the ENTIRE NCC football website article you would have presented an entirely different picture to our fellow posters/readers!

The same website article contains the WHOLE story--here it is, word for word--from the same release you quoted only PART OF.

"After a 31-19 loss to Wheaton College in the battle for the Little Brass Bell, North Central finished the season with wins over Elmhurst College (30-16), Millikin University (22-18), Augustana College (27-0), Illinois Wesleyan University (47-21) and Carthage College (34-24) to end in a first-place tie with Wheaton and Augustana, which also posted 6-1 CCIW records. All three shared the championship, but the Cardinals got the conference's automatic bid to the NCAA III Playoffs virtue of a point differential tiebreaker."

Now thats telling the WHOLE truth/story.   

Concerning the pissing over Giovanine's award-------I never mentioned Dave W or anyone else specifically as doing anything at all wrong. My only contention was that the Augie basketball website should have said something on the order of "Coach Giovanine was voted the CO-Coach of the year for DIII in the state by the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association." This would have told the WHOLE truth instead of giving the impression that Giovanine was the sole winner of the award. It would not have had to even give the name of the other coach (Raridon) that he tied with.

It also would have prevented me from "pissing" about the oversight.      

I rest my case.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Composite Pick Ems Predictions (tonight):

Elmhurst 16, Carthage 1
Augustana 14, Wheaton 3
Millikin 9, IWU 8
North Park 9, NCC 8

It will be interesting to see if there really are two toss-ups and two 'routs' - and, if so, did we call the right ones?!

[dansand]

When a great future PRO like Sikma scores 2272 ending in '77 it kinda boggles my mind (how 'bout anyone else's?) that Bill Warden scored 2249 for North Central ENDING IN 1955! This of course was before the 3 point shot and when basketball was played at a MUCH slower pace!

Before the 3-point shot is correct. Much slower pace? Not even close:
Average field goal attempts per team per game in 1955: 69.3; 1977: 64.9; 2006: 55.6.
The record is 70.3 in 1952.

Average free throw attempts per team per game in 1955: 32.4; 1977: 20.5; 2006: 20.1.
The record is 32.9 in 1953.

These are D1 statistics, but I'd be willing to bet the same trends occured at the small college level.

I wouldn't even point this out if we weren't involved in this silly semantic pissing contest over Grey Giovanine's Coach of the Year award. C'mon man, support your team, but don't be petty.

"...North Central bounced back to not only win its first College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Championship since 1960..."

That's from North Central's football website. Using the same logic, that would be just as "incorrect" because it was a tri-championship with Wheaton and Augie.

Dan----SHAME ON YOU!

You told the truth, but not the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

The evidence-----If you would have bothered to quote the ENTIRE NCC football website article you would have presented an entirely different picture to our fellow posters/readers!

The same website article contains the WHOLE story--here it is, word for word--from the same release you quoted only PART OF.

"After a 31-19 loss to Wheaton College in the battle for the Little Brass Bell, North Central finished the season with wins over Elmhurst College (30-16), Millikin University (22-18), Augustana College (27-0), Illinois Wesleyan University (47-21) and Carthage College (34-24) to end in a first-place tie with Wheaton and Augustana, which also posted 6-1 CCIW records. All three shared the championship, but the Cardinals got the conference's automatic bid to the NCAA III Playoffs virtue of a point differential tiebreaker."

Now thats telling the WHOLE truth/story.   

Concerning the pissing over Giovanine's award-------I never mentioned Dave W or anyone else specifically as doing anything at all wrong. My only contention was that the Augie basketball website should have said something on the order of "Coach Giovanine was voted the CO-Coach of the year for DIII in the state by the Illinois Basketball Coaches Association." This would have told the WHOLE truth instead of giving the impression that Giovanine was the sole winner of the award. It would not have had to even give the name of the other coach (Raridon) that he tied with.

It also would have prevented me from "pissing" about the oversight.      

I rest my case.

However, Coach Thorne's bio makes no mention of sharing the champonship:

Head Coach John Thorne
Special Teams

Just when you think the North Central College football program couldn't possibly get any better it does. The Cardinals had their second consecutive record-breaking year in 2006, surpassing expectations and accomplishing feats that no other team ever has in the College's history. The team won its first College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin (CCIW) Championship since 1960, earning its second straight berth in the NCAA III Playoffs. There, the Cardinals posted the first postseason win in Cardinal history with a 35-6 victory over Concordia University (Wis.).

Now entering his sixth season in 2007, his career mark stands at an impressive 38-15, the most successful five-year stint of any coach in the College's history. It's also the second most wins by any coach in Cardinal history, trailing only Gordon Fischer's career mark of 74-44-12.

Thorne has elevated the program to one of national prominence. The Cardinals finished the season ranked 19th in the final D3football.com Top 25, 19th in the final Football Gazette NCAA III Top 40 and 20th in the final AFCA Division III Coaches Poll.

Prior to North Central, Thorne spent 22 seasons as head coach of Wheaton Warrenville South High School (Formerly Wheaton Central High School). While coaching at the high school level, Thorne compiled an impressive 181-64 career record and rolled up four state championships (1992, 1995, 1996, 1998) and two state runner-up finishes. He also captured six DuPage Valley Conference titles in his tenure and earned DuPage Area "Coach of the Year" honors five times.

Thorne, who earned the Wheaton Kiwanis' "Citizen of the Year" award in 1999, coached three All-Americans and 25 All-State players in his 22 seasons as head coach. He also coached the conference's "Best Defensive Player" four years and the conference's "Best Offensive Player" for five seasons. In addition to his football coaching duties at Wheaton Warrenville South, Thorne also coached baseball and track. He also taught chemistry for 22 years. Most recently, Thorne was inducted into the Illinois High School Football Coaches Association Hall of Fame (2003).

Thorne earned his bachelor of arts degree from Illinois Wesleyan University in 1969 and a master's in educational administration from Northern Illinois University. He and his wife, Kathie, reside in Winfield, Ill. They have two married children, Jeff and Stacey, and seven grandchildren.


Sorry. I'll drop it now

[titanhammer]

Dave Wrath, the SID at Augie, who I assume is responsible for the content on the Augie site,is one of the real stanup guys in small college athletics.

How I wish Dave was a stand up guy.  However, I know he sits at the Shirk Center...because he takes me seat!  Only for Dave, who is a great guy...Old & Tired Titan would be the first to testify.

[Brick]

Boy These Wheaton Announcers have become very quick to criticize the officals as things have gone south for the Thunder.  Augie by 3 61-58 with 1:15 left