MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

69 teams in the Northeast, 51 in the Midwest.

We know the numbers, Pat.

YOU know the numbers, Greg. I am not sure everyone here does. Jaybird I am positive doesn't. That's all I'm doing is putting the numbers out there.

I did not know the numbers and do appreciate the clarification. thanks

[mr_b]

My solution is to take care of business and don't whine if you don't.

Of course, winning the conference tournament is the ticket to the big dance, but the way the "system" (and I use the term lightly) is designed, it offers little comfort to runners-up who are deserving of a torunament bid as well.  If Elmhurst had won the CCIW Tournament, we would probably be having the same argument if Augie had been excluded (a hypothetical, of course, because the RI Vikes might have had a stronger case for a Pool C bid).

[diehardfan]

What an awful draw for Augustana...a road game @ St. Thomas in Round 2?!?!?   Wow.

I wish the men's bracket would be assembled by the women's committee. They have done a great job in recent years.

Wooo women. That's right, give it to us. Men are highly irrational. 8) Just kidding!!!

I would assume Augie can get past the MWC in their slightly down year. If Augie can get past St. Thomas (eek) it will be interesting to see how they do against Point again. IMHO it seems like Augie has definitely improved since that point in the season, and Point probably has too. I hope they're ready for the Rosefelt / Schnettler AA caliber duo though... that's one heck of a frontcourt/backcourt combo. In the opening weekend I saw Bryan Schnettler light it up with 6-11 from behind the arc. It's really hard for teams to adequately guard an AA inside presence like Rosefelt (18ppg, 10rpg) when you have to worry about a 20ppg guard with a .477 shooting percentage from behind the arc (approx 9 attempts per game)! Eek. What a freeking tough draw.

On the subject of Final Four location...  I have been to Salem once and that was a few years back.  My initial impressions were that the Salem area and Salem Civic Center was a great place to have the Final 4.  Really, I find the VA, NC, and Chattanooga, TN areas quite picturesque but that's an entire different discussion.

Just to throw my opinion again,  I would be interested to see if the Final 4 could have a "roving locale" ala the Super Bowl between Pasadena, Miami, etc.
Could you imagine having the Final 4 at the United Center or Allstate Arena (formerly Rosemont Horizon for those who don't know) that would be really interesting!  Having the Final 4 and D3's best right in our backyard.  I know this will never happen, but that would be pretty cool.

Lol... when I drove past Allstate Arena in Chicago this winter when I was there for the Wheaton-Northwestern game, I honestly thought, hmm, final four location? I think it was either too large, or I couldn't find numbers online. But of course, if you would like to make your roving location ACTUALLY Pasadena, I'm up for a So Cal location, 100%. Party at my house!

I totally love Salem though, it's a cute quirky little area that really works hard to make it a nice experience. And it's nice to have some continuity (I actually have the hotel I stay at, and the Salem Center ticket office numbers programed into my phone!   )  I am looking forward to seeing if the improvements they made to the Salem Civic Center in the off-season make the arena look noticeably better.

[tjcummingsfan]

Or, even better, add something else to the conversation. be a part of the solution not part of the problem

I think its a little ridiculous to imply that the complaining going on on this board will somehow lead to some change form the NCAA committee... there isn't a solution to be had.

[79jaybird]

SJU, I agree too.  The "Frozen Four" is a great feature of the NCAA.  As a hockey goalie myself, I can appreciate the revolving locations.  I have been to WI, ND, and MN for various Frozen Fours.

Robberki- I understand where you're coming from, but at the same time I don't agree with all of your thoughts.  From a football playing standpoint, I too felt that you had to earn your way into the post-season.  This is partly why I was against the IHSA going from 6 classes to 8 classes.

In this situation though, I think Mr Ypsi has the right idea that the system has shown some flaws and is letting quality teams, that could potentially make a big difference in the tourney, sit and watch.

[diehardfan]

Or, even better, add something else to the conversation. be a part of the solution not part of the problem

I think its a little ridiculous to imply that the complaining going on on this board will somehow lead to some change form the NCAA committee... there isn't a solution to be had.

Major kudos to tjcummingsfan for being the voice of perspective in this whole thing in an amusing cursory sort of way. The best thing to do is contact administration who are actually involved in decisions. Though if you want to post a discussion of what should be done, that has merit... ya know, one voice sorta thing. I think that's what usee was getting at.

Alright people, I understand the bitterness, really I do, but it doesn't help anything does it? Hopefully this wil die down in a day or two so we can move on to discussing some interesting matchups, but I guess I sorta understand if it doesn't.

[usee]

Or, even better, add something else to the conversation. be a part of the solution not part of the problem

I think its a little ridiculous to imply that the complaining going on on this board will somehow lead to some change form the NCAA committee... there isn't a solution to be had.

Major kudos to tjcummingsfan for being the voice of perspective in this whole thing in an amusing cursory sort of way. The best thing to do is contact administration who are actually involved in decisions. Though if you want to post a discussion of what should be done, that has merit... ya know, one voice sorta thing. I think that's what usee was getting at.

Alright people, I understand the bitterness, really I do, but it doesn't help anything does it? Hopefully this wil die down in a day or two so we can move on to discussing some interesting matchups, but I guess I sorta understand if it doesn't.

April,

you beat me to it. It was jaybird who suggested complaining on here might lead to change. I am delusional, but not that delusional.  I don' t think for one second anything on here would prompt anyone to change.

My simple point was, if you don't like the discussion on here, change it.

as far as change to the system, I agree with April, take it to the administration or the ncaa or wherever else makes you feel better.  For some, their therapy is getting on here and complaining to us complainers. that's ok too, here's a Kleenex for you.........

[Hoop Dreams]

I'm a UChicago fan who saw Elmhurst play this season, in addition to a handful of UAA games.  My opinion is that Elmhurst, had it been selected, would have had a better chance of advancing to the Final Four than any of the three UAA teams that received Pool C bids.

I'd put the Bluejays on the same level as Wash U, probably a touch above because of their superior depth.  In fact, Elmhurst vs. Wash U, with the inside matchup of Brent Ruch vs. Troy Ruths, would have been a terrific first-round NCAA game.

[TheHerr]

I'm a UChicago fan who saw Elmhurst play this season, in addition to a handful of UAA games.  My opinion is that Elmhurst, had it been selected, would have had a better chance of advancing to the Final Four than any of the three UAA teams that received Pool C bids.

I'd put the Bluejays on the same level as Wash U, probably a touch above because of their superior depth.  In fact, Elmhurst vs. Wash U, with the inside matchup of Brent Ruch vs. Troy Ruths, would have been a terrific first-round NCAA game.

Hoops Dream -

Thanks for the kind words. To me it is posts like this that makes it even harder to swallow that Elmhurst is not in the Tournament. If it is so easy for so many people to see that Elmhurst was deserving, why is it so difficult for the NCAA selection committee?

[usee]

I'm a UChicago fan who saw Elmhurst play this season, in addition to a handful of UAA games.  My opinion is that Elmhurst, had it been selected, would have had a better chance of advancing to the Final Four than any of the three UAA teams that received Pool C bids.

I'd put the Bluejays on the same level as Wash U, probably a touch above because of their superior depth.  In fact, Elmhurst vs. Wash U, with the inside matchup of Brent Ruch vs. Troy Ruths, would have been a terrific first-round NCAA game.

Hoops Dream -

Thanks for the kind words. To me it is posts like this that makes it even harder to swallow that Elmhurst is not in the Tournament. If it is so easy for so many people to see that Elmhurst was deserving, why is it so difficult for the NCAA selection committee?

I am not so sure this probelm is even that of the selection comittee as much as it is a problem of the selection criteria. as such that is determined by ? I don't know.

the committee is playing the hand it is dealt. it doesn't appear to me that much discretion is given in the criteria for any kind judgement. the committee may in fact "see it" but has no power to do anything about it. I may be wrong on this. interested to know thoughts from other more educated posters.

[joehakes]

usee,

You're right.  The committees don't have the power to change the rules.  This is the system that is in place, which came from proposals from the Presidents' Council a couple of years ago.  The condemnation of the committee really misses the point of the issue.  Next year, opponent's opponents record will come into play and that should help some in the schedule issue.

[TheHerr]

usee,

You're right.  The committees don't have the power to change the rules.  This is the system that is in place, which came from proposals from the Presidents' Council a couple of years ago.  The condemnation of the committee really misses the point of the issue.  Next year, opponent's opponents record will come into play and that should help some in the schedule issue.

Yes, usee is right. You would think though the committee would be able to look passed some of those numbers to make sure the best teams are in. Unless their hands are totally tied, and if that is the case why not just have a computer pick the teams?

[devildog29]

Someone posted this earlier, but I am too lazy to flip back that many pages.  However, I think it deserves repeating now that the bids have been announced.  From the NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Handbook:

Division III Philosophy
The Division III championships philosophy is to field the most competitive teams possible while minimizing missed class time; to emphasize regional competition in regular-season scheduling; and to provide representation in NCAA championship competition by allocating berths to eligible conferences, independent institutions and a limited number of at-large teams, realizing that this may be done at the expense of leaving out some championship-caliber teams.[/b]

Unfortunately for the CCIW and WIAC, that one kinda hits you right between the eyes.  As has been mentioned, the committee is merely playing the hand it's been dealt.  Too bad that hand is an off-suited 2 and an 8.

[augiefan]

No sense in whinning, but there does seem to be a consensus that Augie got hosed in the seedings. Carroll is a tough first round match up, but Augie has to win that one at home. The trip to St. Paul for the 2nd game just does not seem fair for a team that has one bad loss all season against NAIA St. Ambrose.

Based on the lousy seeding Augie received, they would have probably been no worse off had they lost the CCIW tourney. At least that would have assured two CCIW representatives in the big tourney. However, you always play to win, and this year our talented 2nd, 3rd and 4th place teams were simply unable to pull an upset on Augie's home court this past weekend.

It looks like what we perceived as parity among many good teams in the CCIw was interpreted by the NCAA committe as mediocrity. Of course, the several undeserving conference champion AQs mess things up even further. I guess I would ask that Pat or Titan Q give us a refresher on why there is not just a 64 team tourney. What harm is there in adding five more teams and having everyone play a first round game? Elmhurst would surely have been in the next 5 qualifiers.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Augie got seeded 7th, in essence, for the bracket.

What the committee did, was apparently seed the West teams higher than the Midwest teams in general.

SP, St Thomas and Whitworth would be the top three in the West.

That leaves Aurora, Chicago and WashU over Augie, which all had better QOWI numbers than Augie.

You really can't argue too much, especially with the stated criteria from the NCAA.


Besides, Hope got it worse anyway.