MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Greek Tragedy]

...and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

Even when Gustavus Adolphus went to the Final Four? 

[79jaybird]

Freeman is a great player no doubt, but I base my votes on games that I saw and Gensler played a great game in the game I saw.  Raymond too.  To each his (or her) own opinion, but the 5 guys I chose are based upon real games not numbers.
The question about me putting Wessels there over Freeman...  both are great talents, Wessels gives you more options.  Drew can score, dish out assists, plays great defense, and that to me is worth a lot.  Zach is a great scorer, but I don't think he can compare to Wessels assist capabilities and defense.

[Pat Coleman]

Hypothetical here and just asking (not implying) but if IWU was in the same situation as Elmhurst this year, would they be sitting at home also? 
I get this strange feeling that the people out east and the selectors don't like (something about) Elmhurst? 

Please...

[usee]

Freeman is a great player no doubt, but I base my votes on games that I saw and Gensler played a great game in the game I saw.  Raymond too.  To each his (or her) own opinion, but the 5 guys I chose are based upon real games not numbers.
The question about me putting Wessels there over Freeman...  both are great talents, Wessels gives you more options.  Drew can score, dish out assists, plays great defense, and that to me is worth a lot.  Zach is a great scorer, but I don't think he can compare to Wessels assist capabilities and defense.

this isn't even worth a response.

[Mugsy]

Hypothetical here and just asking (not implying) but if IWU was in the same situation as Elmhurst this year, would they be sitting at home also? 
I get this strange feeling that the people out east and the selectors don't like (something about) Elmhurst? 

Please...

Well stated.  Short, to the point, with just the right tone...  

[Greek Tragedy]

Two years ago we beat Gustavas by 15 at their place and then got killed at Point.  Of course the NCAA pretty much made sure we were screwed by having us travel over 10 hours and then have a game about 40 hours later. 

I do realize it was tough for LU to do all that traveling, but Gustavus Adolphus was the higher seed.  I'm sure the NCAA doesn't assume anything, but they must have been thinking that Gustavus would win and then move on to Point, just like you are assuming Augie wins and travels just once.  What if Carroll knocks off Augie, then Carroll has the same argument for traveling.  I realize it's a shorter distance, I think, but if Loras travels to St. John's and wins, they then have to travel to Point.  Someone always travels.

isn't even worth a response.

Yet you've responded. 

And what is the old Rush quote, "If you don't choose, you still have made a choice,"? lol

[sac]

And what is the old Rush quote

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice 

[TheHerr]

Rather than echo the complaints (which I agree with whole-heartedly), I'm thinking that, at least for the Chicago and vicinity fans, we have an exciting and probably highly entertaining first and second round to witness right in our own back yard.  With Aurora hosting Calvin, Chicago, and Hope this weekend, we can still see some great games locally before we drop the curtain on this season (as spectators).  Anyone posters up for Friday/Saturday in Aurora this weekend?  I hear it's beautiful this time of year.........

Those should be some good games to watch. Since my dad is a Calvin alum, I will be heading to that game on Friday with him and probably some other Elmhurst College Alums, although it won't be easy to cheer for a team that was the partial reason for Elmhurst not making it. BTW when do the times get set?

[The Roop]

...and the MIAC has never impressed me so I wouldn't worry about the seedings.

Even when Gustavus Adolphus went to the Final Four? 

I was not exposed to the D3Hoops.com universe when GA went to the Final Four. Since then the conference as ridden on their laurels I think. The only MIAC team I've ever seen was Hamline in 1977. They made the Final Four that year and the field was 28 teams. 7 four team regionals and the midwest winner got a bye as there was no west region at the time.

I still am not fond of the number of automatics bids but a 59 team field is much better than a 28 team field. Augie goes to MN and wins easily.

[petemcb]

Rather than echo the complaints (which I agree with whole-heartedly), I'm thinking that, at least for the Chicago and vicinity fans, we have an exciting and probably highly entertaining first and second round to witness right in our own back yard.  With Aurora hosting Calvin, Chicago, and Hope this weekend, we can still see some great games locally before we drop the curtain on this season (as spectators).  Anyone posters up for Friday/Saturday in Aurora this weekend?  I hear it's beautiful this time of year.........

Those should be some good games to watch. Since my dad is a Calvin alum, I will be heading to that game on Friday with him and probably some other Elmhurst College Alums, although it won't be easy to cheer for a team that was the partial reason for Elmhurst not making it. BTW when do the times get set?

Aurora's website indicates that Chicago and Hope will square off at 6:00 and Calvin/Aurora at 8:00. 

[Stout survivor]

On the WIAC board we are talking of a WIAC/CCIW  challange where in november the teams would play eachother to start the year for the rights to be the strongest conference in DIII (since we both feel that we got jobbed a little in the selection proccess)

OF course it is all in fun but as a former player i think it would be great to start the year with a compitition like this.

[Gregory Sager]

None. But the league has an outstanding track record that extends back to the very beginning of D3. It's having a down decade by its usual tourney standards -- only one second-place finish and two Elite Eights in the oughts -- but it's certainly beating up on its neighbors at the usual clip. The NJAC went 81-38 (.681) in non-con play this season.

Yeah -- those neighbors are stellar, too. A down decade? Thanks -- that's precisely what I'm getting at.

Huh? Last year Illinois Wesleyan lost to an 11-14 Wheaton team.

Not at home.

So it doesn't count, then?

C'mon, Pat. You're grasping at straws in an effort to put down Elmhurst. Do I need to point out to you (no pun intended) that UWSP lost both games of their home-and-home with a 12-14 UW-Superior team back in 2004 when the Pointers went on to win their first national title? Sure, UW-Superior had Vince Thomas, but they lost to freakin' Finlandia, for crying out loud. And they beat the Pointers ... twice.

What part of "a Millikin-type loss" did you not understand? Trying to compare apples to apples, that is, home games to home games.

I can tell you're upset but you start by lashing out at me for reporting how many teams are in a region? Come on, where's the sense in that?

You directed that post at my reply to 79jaybird, Pat, not to 79jaybird himself.

Yeah, sorry I couldn't get that post to the board sooner. I kinda had other stuff going on today. I was just following up on yours.

I'm sorry if this is insulting to Elmhurst. I feel they are not a national title team, merely a Sweet 16 team. Obviously that means I have no respect whatsoever. [/sarcasm]

It's a down decade by NJAC standards, Pat. That doesn't mean that they've ceased to be a power conference. The locals upon whom they beat up aren't very good ... but the locals that every power conference beats up aren't very good. That's what makes power conferences become power conferences in the first place.

A .681 mark is still the sign of a power conference.

What part of a UW-Superior sweep of UWSP do you not understand? A home-and-home sweep means that the Pointers lost a game on their home floor to the last-place team in the WIAC. How do you like those apples?

You said before that you could see Elmhurst as an Elite Eight team but not a Final Four team. Leaving aside the minute hair-splitting necessary to envision teams in "Elite Eight but not Final Four" terms, the fact of the matter is that any team coming out of the Great Lakes, Midwest, and West that can make it to the Elite Eight is by any sane de facto standards a Final Four caliber team. This isn't the NESCAC/Rochester Speed Bump Festival out here. If you're playing on the second weekend of the dance hereabouts -- especially if you make it to the Saturday night of the second weekend -- you're a national contender. End of story.

You sold Elmhurst short, Pat. You can't spin your way out of it.

[petemcb]

On the WIAC board we are talking of a WIAC/CCIW  challange where in november the teams would play eachother to start the year for the rights to be the strongest conference in DIII (since we both feel that we got jobbed a little in the selection proccess)

OF course it is all in fun but as a former player i think it would be great to start the year with a compitition like this.

That might go over pretty well now:  How many CCIW/WIAC fans do you think you could get to a place like the AllState for a two or three day tournament between all the Cinderallas who missed the dance?

[Pat Coleman]

Nah. I stand by it. You obviously disagree. I don't think it's worth the endless string of quotes and I'm not sure even the Elmhurst fans want to see this conversation continue.

Not a final four team. Not a national champion. End. of. story.

[ecdubb420]

The first team doesn't need to be discussed as they are no-brainers.  79jaybird got three right, but the two he missed should (nee could) be on many All-American teams. Though I would have to give serious consideration to Ryan Burks (who did a great job at the 3 this year with Strzemp out) over fellow super Soph Brent Ruch, its just that Burks on paper doesn't have the boards, blocks and steals that Ruch has.  
Interesting Side-By-Side
Burks 06-07: 17.4ppg, 3.3rpg, 48% (43% 3's 61 made), 90% FT
Amelianovich 03-04: 17.9ppg, 5.1rpg, 51% (50% 3's 82made), 83% FT

Not bad for two guys who saw virtually no varsity action their freshman years (as has been previously posted about Keelan).

Speaking of super sophs, after the Wheaton game, when asking Coach Scherer how Raymond ranks amongst players he's coached against while at EC, he said he is one of the best, but to not overlook or forget that EC has a pair of sophomores that have lots and lots of CCIW basketball ahead of them.
I know its late, but Wessels instead of Walton as a Jostens Award finalist. I was surprised by this, anyone else?

On a side note, for those looking at EC in 07-08, it looks like we may have another Hintszche playing for the Jays.  Wonder when a team had three brothers (non-twins/redshirts) on one team?