MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[79jaybird]

GoBigBlue-- that is very disappointing news from Millikin.. .did MU give a reason behind the firing?  After 25 years of loyalty, I can't see a school just "letting go" a Coach based upon a bad year??  I mean 25 years of service is not just "some joe off the block"  and often a school will find a way to keep the coach in a different role.
I talked to Coach Littrell after both MU/EC games and he seems like a very down to earth guy.

Usee/Pat-- I stand by my thoughts and I respect your opinions, but I do think EC got hosed.   
Looking at this week's 1st/2nd round  I think Hope has a great chance to win the Aurora bracket and I don't think Augie's 1st round vs. Carroll is going to be a pushover.  I think the Vikings will win, but I wouldn't walk into Carver thinking it's going to be an easy stroll to St. Thomas.

[79jaybird]

TitanQ-- I agree with your points and this is partially why the snub "stings" so much.  I would have loved to see EC/W/NC have a chance just to compete against the so-called "best", because of players like Ruch, Raymond, Walton, etc.  that are heads above the rest.  We have played sports, we have sweat, competed, etc. and know that no computer generation, RPI index, poll, etc.  replaces the human spirit on the game field. 
Pat-- Is the current system going to stay in tact? and if so,  are their plans to "discuss"  the system and ways to make the system better?
There are some great Sophomores (to be Juniors) in the league and we should look forward to some great games in 2007-08

[markerickson]

AC Team  (only picking a starting 5 guys)
G Raymond
F Ruch
F Wessels
G Gensler
C D. Swetalla

This lineup supports my belief that the overall talent in the CCIW is not on par with past seasons.

[AndOne]

AC Team  (only picking a starting 5 guys)
G Raymond
F Ruch
F Wessels
G Gensler
C D. Swetalla

This lineup supports my belief that the overall talent in the CCIW is not on par with past seasons.

I believe the all conference team is picked by individual, not by position

My all-conference 1st team:

Z. Freeman----Leading scorer AND rebounder in the conference. Simply, one of the
                       best players in the nation.

K. Raymond---Otherwise known as "dead eye dick." Likely All-America as a soph

B. Ruch---------6th in scoring, 2nd in rebounds, 1st in FG%, T13th in assists, 3rd in
                       FG%, 3rd in steals, T3rd in blocks, third in off, rebounds, 2nd in def
                       rebounds.

D. Walton-----5th in scoring, 5th in rebounds, 5th in FG%, 14th in assists, 15th in
                      FT%, T5th in steals, T6th in blocks, 10th in off rebounds, 1st in def
                      rebounds 

A. Simmons---7th in scoring, 6th in rebounds, 5th in assists, 5th in 3 point FG%,
                      5th in blocks, 13th in off rebounds, 4th in def rebounds, 6th in
                      assist/turnover ratio, 11th in FT%, OR---

D. Wessels---The "little engine that could." The quarterback and director of both
                      the CCIW regular season and conference tourney champions.

2nd Team

Wessels OR Simmons
Schlemm
Gensler
D. Swetalla
R. Burks

3rd Team

Michael
B. Smith
Lee
Delp
Standard

[ecdubb420]

For those who have Gensler on the AC team.....explain how he achieves that instead of Ryan Burks? I mean placing him on  the team over Freeman and Walton is just a joke, but stacked up against Ryan, I'm having a tough time following.
This isn't a homer pick as Gensler killed EC in his first three games (and was the only glimmer of hope in the season finale), but if a coach was building a team they would choose the long-body, automatic from the line, marksman from Manito over the stop up and shoot, dishing Gensler. 
This is not a knock on Drew at all, just a question for those who believe he is a player worthy of being called an All-Conference 5 player.
Nationally the CCIW will likely have two players on the first three All-American teams (Raymond and Freeman) and a good chance of seeing a third or fourth get some Honorable mention love (Wessels, Walton).  Not that big of a drop off in my eyes.

[AndOne]

ecdubb----

I think BOTH Gensler AND Burks are deserving

[AndOne]

If you haven't checked out the RPI rankings on the front page, do so - fascinating!  As far I as could tell it still only dealt with regional games (rather than all d3 games) so could probably still be improved, BUT

While there are still 4 other criteria, if there had been RPI rather than QOWI this year, Elmhurst would have been a lock.  Duh!  But look further - both NCC and Wheaton certainly would have been probable, and even Carthage (who didn't make the CCIW tourney) would have been a bubble team!  (Both 'skosh and LaX would also have been locks.)

GOOD RIDDANCE to QOWI

Mr--------------

AMEN, Brother!

Man, did you hit the nail on the head when you said "Good riddance to QOWI."

It seems the RPI does not penalize a team for being in a stronger top to bottom conference like the CCIW where teams beat each other up all year.

Should RPI have been in place this season rather than QOWI, the CCIW would have had FIVE teams in the top 59:

Augie------------6th
Elmhurst--------23rd
North Central--31st
Wheaton-------37th
Carthage-------52nd

MUCH more reflective of the best conference in the nation! 

[Gregory Sager]

And just to clarify -- I am not trying to spin my way out of it. Standing by what I stated.

Well, yeah ... because you ran out of room to keep moving the goalposts back after my point about UW-Superior beating UWSP at home. First it was, show me a loss by last year's Wesleyan team that was like this year's EC loss to Millikin. So I showed you losses to .500 or worse teams by the last two Wesleyan teams to make the Final Four. Then it was, well, they weren't home losses. So I showed you a home loss by the 2004 national champion that was just as bad as EC's loss to Millikin this year (my apologies, UWSup fans, for calling you a ninth-place team when you were really a seventh-place team in 2004 ). Point Special's post further amplifies the point that UWSP would not have qualified for national contender status that year by the same bad-home-loss standard that you're holding up for Elmhurst. I checked the Pointers' 2003-04 record, and he's right -- winning the conference tournament probably saved UWSP from being left out of the field.

Your retort to my statement that you've wrongfully dismissed Elmhurst sight unseen is that I also make judgments about teams that I haven't seen. You illustrate it by challenging me on the fact that I haven't been to a Final Four in recent years. Well, Bob goes to the Final Four every year ... and he agrees with me about the Bluejays.

Neither Bob nor I think that Elmhurst is one of those major D3 juggernauts that only seem to come around every three or four years. We've both struggled from the beginning of the season to ascertain whether Augie or Elmhurst, or anyone else in the CCIW for that matter, was a Final Four caliber team. But he's exactly right in judging Elmhurst based upon the context of this season's better teams. Given the quality of the better teams that we've both seen this season -- and I've seen Wash U, Chicago, Aurora, UWO, and DePauw as well as all the CCIW teams -- we both agree that Elmhurst fits the standard of a team that can definitely go very deep into the western section of the bracket and even win one of the two western-oriented sectionals. And a team that can go very deep into the western section of the bracket is, by virtue of the fact that this is the tougher half of the bracket, a Final Four caliber team.

You're right that this debate is probably boring even the Elmhurst people, so this is my last post on the subject. Go ahead and have the last word. But it won't change the fact that you're just plain flat-out wrong about Elmhurst not having what it takes to reach Salem.

[Gregory Sager]

AC Team  (only picking a starting 5 guys)
G Raymond
F Ruch
F Wessels
G Gensler
C D. Swetalla

This lineup supports my belief that the overall talent in the CCIW is not on par with past seasons.

Mark, I don't think you're following this discussion very well. You've posted 79jaybird's idea of an All-CCIW first team -- and it's been shot down by several people since he posted it, as well it should have been. Do you see Zach Freeman listed on this team? Do you see Dan Walton there? Anthony Simmons? Heck, he's even got Drew Wessels playing out of position -- Wessels is not only a point guard instead of a forward, he's about as prototypical of a point guard as you can get.

I don't think that this was an outstanding year for CCIW talent, but it certainly wasn't a bad one. If anything, this was a year in which a lot of teams demonstrated very strong chemistry and role function that made them even better than their raw material would've suggested. Augustana is the classic example of that, and Wheaton and Carthage both exhibited that tendency to a strong degree as well.

This was a very good year for the CCIW, Mark. The league set an all-time high in non-conference winning percentage, .750 (66-22). Think about that for a moment -- as dominant as this league has been over the years, this season it did so well top-to-bottom in non-conference play that it surpassed each of the 60 seasons that came before it. That's quite a testimony to this year's eight CCIW teams.

[Gregory Sager]

If you haven't checked out the RPI rankings on the front page, do so - fascinating!  As far I as could tell it still only dealt with regional games (rather than all d3 games) so could probably still be improved, BUT

While there are still 4 other criteria, if there had been RPI rather than QOWI this year, Elmhurst would have been a lock.  Duh!  But look further - both NCC and Wheaton certainly would have been probable, and even Carthage (who didn't make the CCIW tourney) would have been a bubble team!  (Both 'skosh and LaX would also have been locks.)

GOOD RIDDANCE to QOWI

Mr--------------

AMEN, Brother!

Man, did you hit the nail on the head when you said "Good riddance to QOWI."

It seems the RPI does not penalize a team for being in a stronger top to bottom conference like the CCIW where teams beat each other up all year.

Should RPI have been in place this season rather than QOWI, the CCIW would have had FIVE teams in the top 59:

Augie------------6th
Elmhurst--------23rd
North Central--31st
Wheaton-------37th
Carthage-------52nd

MUCH more reflective of the best conference in the nation! 

This is very exciting. I had a suspicion that the power conferences would really benefit from the addition of opponents' opponents regional winning percentage to the equation, and that certainly seems to be the case. Kudos to D3scoreboard.com for compiling this info, and to Pat for putting it up on the site.

This is the best news possible for the CCIW and WIAC after a disappointing but not-unexpected Selection Sunday. The implementation of this new formula could make a world of difference in terms of putting the most deserving teams in Pool C in coming seasons.

[Gregory Sager]

Does the league use tournament games when deciding statistical leaders?  Single season/career leaders?

No. Statistical records contained in the CCIW archives are for CCIW games only. The league's website does keep overall statistics for each season, and of course the CCIW tournament games and Augustana's NCAA tourney games will be a part of that for 2006-07. But those statistics do not have any bearing upon the CCIW record book.

[Gregory Sager]

GoBigBlue-- that is very disappointing news from Millikin.. .did MU give a reason behind the firing?  After 25 years of loyalty, I can't see a school just "letting go" a Coach based upon a bad year??  I mean 25 years of service is not just "some joe off the block"  and often a school will find a way to keep the coach in a different role.

I agree that that's a long period of service to one's alma mater, 79jb, and I feel badly for Tim Littrell. However, this is not a case of a coach being dismissed after only one poor season.

The last time that Millikin finished .500 in CCIW play was 1999-2000, when the Big Blue went 7-7 in conference and 15-10 overall. Since then, here's how they've done:

season	overall	CCIW	place
2006-07	9-16	2-12	8th
2005-06	10-15	3-11	7th
2004-05	12-13	4-10	7th
2003-04	14-11	6-8	5th
2002-03	7-18	2-12	7th (tie)
2001-02	8-17	3-11	8th
2000-01	10-15	3-11	7th

As you can see, this pink slip for Littrell has been a long time coming. The irony is that he was dismissed after landing one of the best freshman classes Millikin has had over the past twenty years. Zach Ott, Robert Rexroade, Joscar Demby, and Charles Warren all showed signs that they could become very good CCIW players over the next three seasons. The Big Blue might be a season away from making a lot of noise in this league.

Alas, Littrell's departure also means that CCIW fans will be deprived of the singular experience of seeing three head coaches in our league coach their own sons in 2007-08: Mitchell Raridon, Steve Djurickovic, and Wes Littrell.

GoBigBlue, I hope that you reconsider and stay an active part of CCIW Chat. Heaven knows we get very little input from Millikin here; it's the only school in the league that is chronically underrepresented in our room.

[Dennis_Prikkel]

Boy this board scrolls fast - and I wouldn't be surprised if I am reprising something GS already posted....

The Covenant Church newswire today cocncerns a story about Rus Bradburd, a reserve (write in 12th man) on North Park's first two national championship teams in 1978 and 1979.

http://www.covchurch.org/cov/news/item5422

After leaving North Park Bradburd spent many years as an assistant coach to Don Haskins at UTEP and then Lou Henson at New Mexico State, before deciding to become a writer.

His first book "Paddy on the Hardwood" tells about his sojourn in Ireland.  Sounds hilarious.

A month after the 1987 NPC championship win over Clark (which North Park had professionally filmed), Bradburd and Chicago radio sports personality Les Grobstein added play-by-play to the tape, while watching the video in the basement of the library.

Enjoy....

MW 70:3

[LU_nut]

USP Bum knees

I was not implying that Augie would beat St. Thomas.   All I stated was playing at St. Thomas was a lot easier than playing at Point.  I actually think Augie will lose there.    I just think they could have gotten a worse draw.

[LU_nut]

Old School

I know Gustavas was the higher seed and hence why LU traveled the country in way to short of time period.......but that gets back to how broken this system is.  No way Gustavas should have been the higher seed.....  if I remember right, we had a better record and I know we had a higher rank.  Again, I know the D3 rankings do not apply to the post season, but it is probably a pretty good proxy for how good a team is.  Works that way in d1.  The MIAC was down that year.   Gustavas just had not played anyone.     Let me make my point another way....................no one should have to travel over 6 hours each way within 48 hours of a game and play an opponent on their court who has sat at home getting ready for the entire week.  Point was the better team, but the NCAA robbed you and everyone else of the possibility of a rematch of one of the great games in d3 history the previous year when both team had similar environments.

Again, my point is that this is good b-ball.  it is not fair to the participants in places like Elmhurst and Oshkosh, who I think are top 10 teams and have the potential to be final 4 to not make the tourney.  Likewise, it is not right
to give someone like Carroll the draw they have been given.  Spread the game out an extra day........go to 64 teams and play 4 team regionals......there are plenty of options.  Most of all, change the way teams are selected so that the midwest (wiac/cciw) do not get screwed so the weak east coast teams go the the tourney.    This is like the ivy league runner up getting in and wisconsin getting left off from the d1 tourney because they lost to Ohio State by 1.......wouldn't there be an uproar with that?