MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

Sead Odzic transfered to Illinois State in December of this season.  He will be eligible at ISU in December of the 2007-08 season.

[usee]

CCIW Watcher, that would be a certain #4 named Ryan Knuppel and that particular 3 point shot to win the game, is one of my single-most memorable moments at Elmhurst.  I was the mascot (Victor E. Bluejay) that year, and as luck would have it, I was under the basket just as Knuppel let go the "shot heard around campus".  I literally saw that orange ball sail through the orange cylinder, and we all immediately started a "mosh pit" at the center court!  Great memories.
I too am glad to see Wash U. gaining success in the big dance.  If you haven't had a chance to see/tour Wash U. in St. Louis, I suggest doing it.  The Bears have a great campus, in a pleasant neighborhood, and their athletic teams are pretty shabby also!

a freudian slip???

[Gregory Sager]

CCIW Watcher, that would be a certain #4 named Ryan Knuppel and that particular 3 point shot to win the game, is one of my single-most memorable moments at Elmhurst.

Hiker Jim and I were at that 2001 Elmhurst tourney game against Wash U, and I would imagine that each of us celebrated more when Ryan hit that shot than we have ever celebrated for a CCIW team other than our respective alma maters. All the more so because that Bears team led by Chris Jeffries and Chris Alexander was pretty darn good.

Now that Valpo has officially announced this, I think I can let the cat out of the bag.

http://nwitimes.com/articles/2007/03/10/sports/college_sports/doc037dbf456e0e00ba8625729a000eed1f.txt

My old NPC schoolmate Mark LaBarbera is the AD at Valparaiso, and I am going to personally hold him responsible for not slipping a few hundred bucks into the kid's gym bag in order to get him to transfer to St. Ambrose or Coe or Wartburg instead of Augustana.

This looks to be a CCIW M.O.P. candidate.

Let's not leap to any drastic conclusions about Keaton Frye, sight unseen. Or am I the only one here who remembers the last great Valpo hoops phenom who transferred to a CCIW school, the immortal Cory Gibson?

A kid whose last name is Odzic attended Niles West HS, and he went to play ball for Tim Floyd at USC two years ago.  I saw Odzic's name in a box score or two during the season, but he didn't play at all in yesterday's blowout to the Ducks.

Are Division 1 basketball scholarships irrevocable for four years? 

No, they are annually revocable at the discretion of the head coach.

The typical practice in D1 when a player has his scholie revoked for non-disciplinary and non-academic reasons is for the school's sports information office to not announce it as such to the press. The player is typically informed by the coach that he will not be allowed to retain his scholarship next year either during the season or immediately after its conclusion, which gives the player enough time to latch on somewhere else. The subsequent press release by the school usually states that the player is going to transfer to another school in order to seek increased playing time. It's a deceptive but well-intentioned practice; it allows the player to save face and avoid the stigma of having the whole world know that he had his scholarship taken away from him.

[Gregory Sager]

The article about Frye states that a concussion ended his season early into the conference season, yet Frye hopes to earn a medical redshirt.  I say he's got less than 1% of a chance of being granted a medical redshirt.

His chances are considerably higher than that, Mark. Frye played in less than a third of his team's games, and since his last appearance for Valpo was in the team's 15th game of the season (out of a total of 31 games played) he clearly was hurt in the first half of the season. Those are the two criteria for hardship waiver eligibility as spelled out in 14.2.5 of the D3 Bylaws. Of course, he will have to provide medical documentation to support his assertion that a concussion ended his season; whether that is a sticking point or not is something Ill bet none of us knows yet (though Dansand is welcome to dazzle us with what would be an unprecedented insider scoop ).

[advoice]

Sager,

The D3 bylaw is irrelevant. Valporaiso has to apply for the medical hardship so the DI rules the ones that matter. Don't know them off the top of my head.

You are correct that the concussion must be proven as "season ending." That could be difficult to prove. If the injury happened sometime in early January he probably COULD have played sometime in February. If it was a coaches decision for him not to play the last few games or if he intentionally did not play in hopes of getting the medical redshirt approved, he will not be granted the year. The NCAA committee that decides these has really tightened up lately on this point.

Example from real life...track kid pulls a hamstring in January...sits out two weeks and decides the injury will not let him compete...Medical is denied because he COULD have competed. Doesn't even matter that he would not have been at full strength.

[Late nite]

Keaton Frye Signs With Valpo

The Valparaiso University men’s basketball team today announced they have signed Keaton Frye to a National Letter of Intent.

A 6’3” guard from North Scott High School in Eldridge, Iowa, Frye earned First Team All-Conference honors last season while playing in the post. He averaged 16.5 points and 9.7 rebounds per game, finishing second in the conference in scoring and first in rebounding. A three-year starter, Frye shot 77% from the free throw line and 48% from the floor as a junior. Frye played a guard position as a sophomore and will return to the backcourt in his senior season. His coach this year at North Scott is Dave Wessel.

“He’s (Frye) not only a great player but a really great kid,” Wessel said, “He’s very well respected and a model for the younger players.”


http://www.valpo.edu/athletics/index.php?a=s&a2=vnr&sid=2&nrid=2224

http://www.valpo.edu/athletics/index.php?a=s&sid=2&a2=vrs&a3=rd&teamplayerid=2247
---------------

This looks to be a CCIW M.O.P. candidate.

Let's not jump to conclusions---Many players have chosen DI programs and had no business being there---Frye played in the summer with some Augie players before he committed and he didn't knock their socks off

[79jaybird]

Greg-- As I recall there were a few (not too many) non Elmhurst/Wash U jackets and hats in the stands.  I also recall Wash U being slightly favored and the 2 guys you mentioned having big performances during the playoffs that year.  Well, the "snubs" don't end at the Division III level,  look at Syracuse, Air Force, and West Virginia in D-1.  I feel real bad for Air Force as I would have liked to see the Cadets/Falcons make the big dance.

[Gregory Sager]

Sager,

The D3 bylaw is irrelevant. Valporaiso has to apply for the medical hardship so the DI rules the ones that matter.

First of all, the student-athlete and not the school is responsible for the application, because he or she is the only person legally authorized to secure that medical documentation. Second, if the student-athlete transfers, the institution which he or she is attending at the time the application is made is the one whose rules apply. That's the way it was in the Sneed Deaderick case; D3's rules (which state that a student-athlete can't participate in more than a third of his or her team's contests; the D1 rule is that he or she can't participate in more than a fifth of them) were observed in his case because he was a North Park student at the time he made the application, even though he was a D1 student-athlete (DePaul) during the season he later sought to have restored to his eligibility via the hardship waiver. The bylaws of both divisions state that the waiver is administered by the appropriate member conference of the NCAA (and by the NCAA Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement on appeal), and in Deaderick's case his application was administered (and denied) by the CCIW rather than Conference USA.

Of course it's possible that the rule has been changed since then. But that was in the fall of '03, which wasn't that long ago, and I can't find anything specific in either the D1 or D3 bylaws that would countermand it.

You are correct that the concussion must be proven as "season ending." That could be difficult to prove. If the injury happened sometime in early January he probably COULD have played sometime in February. If it was a coaches decision for him not to play the last few games or if he intentionally did not play in hopes of getting the medical redshirt approved, he will not be granted the year. The NCAA committee that decides these has really tightened up lately on this point.

As I said, it's the conference that is the adjudicator in medical redshirt cases, not the NCAA, according to the bylaws of all three NCAA divisions (section 14.2.5.1, to be precise, for D2 and D3; and section 14.2.4.2 in the D1 bylaws). The NCAA Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement strictly functions as an appeals court.

I don't doubt that it's getting harder for student-athletes to get a thumbs-up for a medical redshirt. But it's important to know to whom those thumbs belong.

[Gregory Sager]

All this talk about Keaton Frye piqued my curiosity about the legacy of D1 transfers in CCIW men's basketball history. So I did a little research -- and what I found was enlightening.

My personal recollection of the league doesn't go back beyond the 1979-80 season, so Dennis Prikkel will have to fill in any details for seasons prior to that. But to the best of my knowledge, not one of the league's 42 MOP awards that have been handed out over the years has ever gone to a D1 transfer. In fact, the only two transfers I can identify who've won the MOP were Michael Starks (1987) and Mike Barach (1988), both of whom transferred to North Park from junior colleges.

These are the D1 transfers I can identify who have made the All-CCIW team:

player	school	D1	year	team
Brian Schlemm	Carthage	Air Force	2007	2nd
Anthony Lenoir	North Park	Western Illinois	2007	3rd
Kevin Menard	Carthage	Marquette	2004	2nd
Sneed Deaderick	North Park	DePaul	2003	2nd
Greg Ktistou	Carthage	Eastern Illinois	2001	3rd
Anthony Figueroa	Millikin	Chicago State	2000	2nd
Michael Collins	Wheaton	Bradley	2000	3rd
Michael Collins	Wheaton	Bradley	1999	3rd
Jon Litwiller	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1996	2nd
Jon Litwiller	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1995	3rd
Chuck Murphy	North Park	DePaul	1992	3rd
Carlos Harris	North Park	Northeastern Illinois	1991	3rd
Danny James	North Park	Alabama-Birmingham	1990	3rd
Bill Braksick	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1988	1st
Roger Wood	North Park	Kentucky	1977	3rd

What's particularly interesting is that only one of these guys, ol' "Herman Munster" Braksick of Illinois Wesleyan, was a first-teamer.

I can recall at least twelve D1 transfers in the CCIW over the past decade who didn't make the All-CCIW team. They ranged in impact and ability in this league anywhere from being a productive starter to being a pretty marginal bench player. Based upon the past decade, then, it would seem that about one out of every three D1 transfers turns out to be an All-CCIW player -- and that the league hasn't seen one make first team in twenty years, and none of them have ever made MOP.

[joehakes]

Greg,

Did Ernest Hubbard not make an All-CCIW team in '85?  He transferred from SIU and was the MVP of the national final four that year, I believe.

[Titan Q]

All this talk about Keaton Frye piqued my curiosity about the legacy of D1 transfers in CCIW men's basketball history. So I did a little research -- and what I found was enlightening.

My personal recollection of the league doesn't go back beyond the 1979-80 season, so Dennis Prikkel will have to fill in any details for seasons prior to that. But to the best of my knowledge, not one of the league's 42 MOP awards that have been handed out over the years has ever gone to a D1 transfer. In fact, the only two transfers I can identify who've won the MOP were Michael Starks (1987) and Mike Barach (1988), both of whom transferred to North Park from junior colleges.

These are the D1 transfers I can identify who have made the All-CCIW team:

player	school	D1	year	team
Brian Schlemm	Carthage	Air Force	2007	2nd
Anthony Lenoir	North Park	Western Illinois	2007	3rd
Kevin Menard	Carthage	Marquette	2004	2nd
Sneed Deaderick	North Park	DePaul	2003	2nd
Greg Ktistou	Carthage	Eastern Illinois	2001	3rd
Anthony Figueroa	Millikin	Chicago State	2000	2nd
Michael Collins	Wheaton	Bradley	2000	3rd
Michael Collins	Wheaton	Bradley	1999	3rd
Jon Litwiller	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1996	2nd
Jon Litwiller	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1995	3rd
Chuck Murphy	North Park	DePaul	1992	3rd
Carlos Harris	North Park	Northeastern Illinois	1991	3rd
Danny James	North Park	Alabama-Birmingham	1990	3rd
Bill Braksick	Illinois Wesleyan	Illinois State	1988	1st
Roger Wood	North Park	Kentucky	1977	3rd

What's particularly interesting is that only one of these guys, ol' "Herman Munster" Braksick of Illinois Wesleyan, was a first-teamer.

I can recall at least twelve D1 transfers in the CCIW over the past decade who didn't make the All-CCIW team. They ranged in impact and ability in this league anywhere from being a productive starter to being a pretty marginal bench player. Based upon the past decade, then, it would seem that about one out of every three D1 transfers turns out to be an All-CCIW player -- and that the league hasn't seen one make first team in twenty years, and none of them have ever made MOP.

Great post.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of these players transfered after their sophomore season...some even after their junior season.  I think we would all agree, based on history, that transfers have about a pretty significant basketball transition process to go through when they get to their Division III school.  It seems like that first year is always a little inconsistent and then the next year we see the player we expected.

I think back to Jon Litwiller who started for Illinois State as a freshman before transfering to IWU after his sophomore year at ISU.  Jon had a good junior year (the season IWU made the Elite 8 and lost at home to Steve Alford's Manchester team), but not a great one.  He was much better, and looked so much more comfortable, as a senior.  I could say that about a lot of the guys above.

A player like Keaton Frye, who is coming in as a sophomore (maybe even a freshman based on the medical redshirt ruling), has more time to settle as a CCIW player and may end up being a better player as a senior because of it.  Just a thought. 

[Dennis_Prikkel]

The Fred Young MOP award has only been formally presented since the end of the 1968 season.  Filling in GS' gap from 68 to 80 none of the MOP winners have been D1 transfers.

You can add Fred Evans, IWU 1970 as a first team all-CCIW player and a D1 transfer (me believes it was ISU, but I'm sure Ancient Titan will know for sure).  Evans was an amazing one season wonder for the Titans, certainly my MVP of that undefeated CCIW champion, but Tom Gramkow was rightly named the Most Outstanding Player of the league.  Gramkow was the only CCIW guard I ever saw who would distain a breakaway layup for a top of the key jumper.  He was a deadly shooter - just ask ISU - "last shot, last game".

Evans defensive ability and his quickness allowed the generally slow Titans to play a very agressive half-court trapping defense that turned many a shallow IWU lead into a rout and turned around several close games in which the Titans were trailing.

I seem to remember he did not return to IWU for his senior year.

MW 70:3

[Mr. Ypsi]

I was a senior at IWU in 1970 - while I am going solely from memory on this, my memories match well with Dennis'.  Aside from 'the shot' by Gramkow, one of my favorite memories of that year was when Fred (roughly 6'6") outrebounded 7'1" (and future 1st round NBA selection) Elmore Smith in KC - alas, we lost anyway, but....

[Gregory Sager]

Greg,

Did Ernest Hubbard not make an All-CCIW team in '85?  He transferred from SIU and was the MVP of the national final four that year, I believe.

Hubs was an All-CCIW first-teamer in '85, but he was not a D1 transfer. He came to NPC from the Southern Illinois University campus in Edwardsville, not the one in Carbondale, and SIUE was and is a D2 program. Not for long, however, as two weeks ago SIUE's Board of Trustees decided to have the school apply to the NCAA to move to D1.

Great post.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of these players transfered after their sophomore season...some even after their junior season.  I think we would all agree, based on history, that transfers have about a pretty significant basketball transition process to go through when they get to their Division III school.  It seems like that first year is always a little inconsistent and then the next year we see the player we expected.

I think back to Jon Litwiller who started for Illinois State as a freshman before transfering to IWU after his sophomore year at ISU.  Jon had a good junior year (the season IWU made the Elite 8 and lost at home to Steve Alford's Manchester team), but not a great one.  He was much better, and looked so much more comfortable, as a senior.  I could say that about a lot of the guys above.

A player like Keaton Frye, who is coming in as a sophomore (maybe even a freshman based on the medical redshirt ruling), has more time to settle as a CCIW player and may end up being a better player as a senior because of it.  Just a thought. 

Good point, Bob.

The Fred Young MOP award has only been formally presented since the end of the 1968 season.  Filling in GS' gap from 68 to 80 none of the MOP winners have been D1 transfers.

You can add Fred Evans, IWU 1970 as a first team all-CCIW player and a D1 transfer (me believes it was ISU, but I'm sure Ancient Titan will know for sure).  Evans was an amazing one season wonder for the Titans, certainly my MVP of that undefeated CCIW champion, but Tom Gramkow was rightly named the Most Outstanding Player of the league.  Gramkow was the only CCIW guard I ever saw who would distain a breakaway layup for a top of the key jumper.  He was a deadly shooter - just ask ISU - "last shot, last game".

Evans defensive ability and his quickness allowed the generally slow Titans to play a very agressive half-court trapping defense that turned many a shallow IWU lead into a rout and turned around several close games in which the Titans were trailing.

I seem to remember he did not return to IWU for his senior year.

MW 70:3

Thanks for adding Evans to the list, Dennis.

Since Dennis goes back to the mid-sixties with this league, that means that only on 16 different occasions (involving 14 different players) over the past four decades has a D1 transfer made the All-CCIW team -- and only twice has a D1 transfer been named a first-teamer. Food for thought.

[diehardfan]

Great post.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of these players transfered after their sophomore season...some even after their junior season.  I think we would all agree, based on history, that transfers have about a pretty significant basketball transition process to go through when they get to their Division III school.  It seems like that first year is always a little inconsistent and then the next year we see the player we expected.

I think back to Jon Litwiller who started for Illinois State as a freshman before transfering to IWU after his sophomore year at ISU.  Jon had a good junior year (the season IWU made the Elite 8 and lost at home to Steve Alford's Manchester team), but not a great one.  He was much better, and looked so much more comfortable, as a senior.  I could say that about a lot of the guys above.

A player like Keaton Frye, who is coming in as a sophomore (maybe even a freshman based on the medical redshirt ruling), has more time to settle as a CCIW player and may end up being a better player as a senior because of it.  Just a thought. 

Good point, Bob.

Was the good point his actual point, or the fact that he thought you made a great post.