MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

Responding to the topic of Coach Scherrer-

Guys, Coach Scherrer is not going anywhere.  He is happy at Elmhurst and is well set coaching the Jays, having his family reside and grow up in Elmhurst, and helping the Athletics programs succeed. 
Coach Baines?  Well I don't have an answer here.  I think it is every Assistant Coach's dream to get a shot at an HC role.  I wouldn't doubt Coach Baines applying for the Millikin job, AND if he does apply, I hope he gets that position.  I think Coach Baines is a great leader and someday will be a great HC.

It makes sense that Scherer is not thinking of leaving EC.

I agree Baines will make a good head coach. I think it was silly when some people blamed Baines for Elmhurst's loss to North Central the night he took over the team while Coach Scherer was attending his mom's funeral.

[AndOne]

The results are in!

Zach Freeman:
21.6 ppg., 9.1 rpg., .691 fg%, .294 3pt fg%, .793 ft%,  35.2 min/gm
S.O.S. #6

Not worthy----(prorated at 35 min/gm)
22.4 ppg. 8.8 rpg., .479 fg%, .327 3pt fg%, .688 ft%,   25.1 min/gm
Played for a winning team, same conference---S.O.S.  #7


You're 1st team All American---Brian Schlemm!!!---Can't seem to find his name anywhere---Not even Honorable Mention---I guess he didn't play at the right place---If stats are the main criteria and the spot is awarded on results from THIS YEAR, he should be right there, but I'm sure he doesn't fit the profile---Not fair, but true

1. Zach Freeman was a unanimous 1st Team CCIW All Conference selection. Schlemm made the 2nd team.

2. Freeman made 1st Team All Region. Schlemm was not mentioned.

3. Freeman made 1st Team D3Hoops All American. Schlemm was not mentioned as one of the best 25 players

1. The CCIW All Conference team is voted on by the league coaches--there must be a conspiracy Carthage/Schlemm among the coaches!

2. All Region players are nominated by and voted for by the region's Sports Info Directors--there must be a conspiracy against Carthage/Schlemm among them too!

3. D3Hoops All Americans are voted on by, I believe, voters around the country. Looks like they don't like Carthage/Schlemm for reasons other than his basketball skills either!

Also----Why did Schelmm only average 25 mins a game to Freeman's 35. Could it have been that he was not in a physical condition that would allow him to play 10 more minutes a game?
And---If he HAD played 10 more minutes---Would his production actually have increased-----OR, very possibly actually gone DOWN?   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Wow I can't believe someone took the bait on that one.  wow.

[north central]

i dont know of any one else who applied for the millikin job  but it would be wise to hire an someone who either has millikin connections, cciw connections or was a head coach at the college level. I just hope Lori Kerans makes the right decision and brings in a winner cause millikin has sucked for a while now. their last winning record in conference was 1998-99  thats terrible.

[AndOne]

Wow I can't believe someone took the bait on that one.  wow.

The "bait" ?
Please explain least we all think that you and Late are just playing childish little games.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I can't imagine that he was proposing Schlemm was actually deserving of a first team All-American selection.  I think the point was that numbers aren't everything, especially when your team is relying on you to put up a lot of them.


The "bait" was my nice way of implying that you missed the point a little there.  It's not so much a Schlemm vs Freeman argument as it was a Freeman vs some other top post players argument where Schlemm's numbers were used in an attempt to make the whole argument seem a tad absurd.

[Late nite]

Good call---In no way did I believe that he was a 1st team All American---Schlemm had NO CHANCE of receiving any love this season because of how he carried himself and his past at Carthage---When Q presented numerous players and their comparative STATS, I presented a player with the STATS that were worthy, but had a snowball's chance in hell of being recognized---Once again, stats aren't everything   

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I can't imagine that he was proposing Schlemm was actually deserving of a first team All-American selection.  I think the point was that numbers aren't everything, especially when your team is relying on you to put up a lot of them.


The "bait" was my nice way of implying that you missed the point a little there.  It's not so much a Schlemm vs Freeman argument as it was a Freeman vs some other top post players argument where Schlemm's numbers were used in an attempt to make the whole argument seem a tad absurd.

[Late nite]

Schlemm's team won with him at 25 minutes a game---Maybe IWU would have won more if Freeman had played less---Did you ever think that was possiblilty?---I know that is blasphemy on this site---No matter how good the player, it's still takes 5 players to win---

The results are in!

Zach Freeman:
21.6 ppg., 9.1 rpg., .691 fg%, .294 3pt fg%, .793 ft%,  35.2 min/gm
S.O.S. #6

Not worthy----(prorated at 35 min/gm)
22.4 ppg. 8.8 rpg., .479 fg%, .327 3pt fg%, .688 ft%,   25.1 min/gm
Played for a winning team, same conference---S.O.S.  #7


You're 1st team All American---Brian Schlemm!!!---Can't seem to find his name anywhere---Not even Honorable Mention---I guess he didn't play at the right place---If stats are the main criteria and the spot is awarded on results from THIS YEAR, he should be right there, but I'm sure he doesn't fit the profile---Not fair, but true

1. Zach Freeman was a unanimous 1st Team CCIW All Conference selection. Schlemm made the 2nd team.

2. Freeman made 1st Team All Region. Schlemm was not mentioned.

3. Freeman made 1st Team D3Hoops All American. Schlemm was not mentioned as one of the best 25 players

1. The CCIW All Conference team is voted on by the league coaches--there must be a conspiracy Carthage/Schlemm among the coaches!

2. All Region players are nominated by and voted for by the region's Sports Info Directors--there must be a conspiracy against Carthage/Schlemm among them too!

3. D3Hoops All Americans are voted on by, I believe, voters around the country. Looks like they don't like Carthage/Schlemm for reasons other than his basketball skills either!

Also----Why did Schelmm only average 25 mins a game to Freeman's 35. Could it have been that he was not in a physical condition that would allow him to play 10 more minutes a game?
And---If he HAD played 10 more minutes---Would his production actually have increased-----OR, very possibly actually gone DOWN?  

[Titan Q]

IWU's Elias Washington (6 min/game) prorated to 35 min. per game...

23.3 ppg
5.8 rpg
4.8 apg


If anyone got screwed by getting left off the 1st Team All-American squad, it was Elias.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/TEAMCUME.HTM

[Late nite]

Thanks for proving my point---Individual stats are overrated---Most people will ask, "How did your team do?", not "How many points and rebounds did you average?"

IWU's Elias Washington (6 min/game) prorated to 35 min. per game...

23.3 ppg
5.8 rpg
4.8 apg


If anyone got screwed by getting left off the 1st Team All-American squad, it was Elias.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/TEAMCUME.HTM

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks for proving my point---Individual stats are overrated---Most people will ask, "How did your team do?", not "How many points and rebounds did you average?"

IWU's Elias Washington (6 min/game) prorated to 35 min. per game...

23.3 ppg
5.8 rpg
4.8 apg


If anyone got screwed by getting left off the 1st Team All-American squad, it was Elias.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2007/TEAMCUME.HTM

I, for one, have long since forgotten what your 'point' was, but to take your latest post to it's (illogical) conclusion (since individual stats are misleading and team outcomes all that matters - and, previous post, it takes 5 players to win) 1st team all-conference should be the starting line-up of the league champs, and 1st team AA should be the Amherst starting five (oops! what about key subs?!).

Yes, individual stats CAN be misleading (which is why many of us fully supported Drew Wessels for 1st team all-conference), and your alternative is ... what, exactly?  I assume your crack about IWU winning more if Zach had played less was sarcasm, but I'll take it seriously for a moment.  With Zach, the Titans were still mathematically alive for the conference tourney up to the last week; without Zach, they might well have not won a game.  Since it DOES take 5 players to win, an AA on a good team may lift them to a title; an AA on a bad team may lift them to mediocrity.  Ernie Banks and Dan Marino need not be stripped of HoF credentials just because their teams never won a title.

[Late nite]

I, for one, have long since forgotten what your 'point' was, but to take your latest post to it's (illogical) conclusion (since individual stats are misleading and team outcomes all that matters - and, previous post, it takes 5 players to win) 1st team all-conference should be the starting line-up of the league champs, and 1st team AA should be the Amherst starting five (oops! what about key subs?!).

Yes, individual stats CAN be misleading (which is why many of us fully supported Drew Wessels for 1st team all-conference), and your alternative is ... what, exactly?  I assume your crack about IWU winning more if Zach had played less was sarcasm, but I'll take it seriously for a moment.  With Zach, the Titans were still mathematically alive for the conference tourney up to the last week; without Zach, they might well have not won a game.  Since it DOES take 5 players to win, an AA on a good team may lift them to a title; an AA on a bad team may lift them to mediocrity.  Ernie Banks and Dan Marino need not be stripped of HoF credentials just because their teams never won a title.

I wasn't the one to originally throw out the stats, but you have to compare apples to apples if you're going to use them---As stated before, when you are playing heavy minutes on a team that is in alot of close games, there will always be more opportunities to build up stats---That's why I choose to award a player with good stats AND contributing to a winning team

Last comment---I never said that individual stats aren't important---My "point" being, a First team All American should have both---good stats and a winning ballclub---Those who selected the team must feel the same way, because every frontline player listed had impressive individual stats and played winning basketball---Almost everyone

(modified by GS for quote formatting)

[Pat Coleman]

That's your opinion. It's not ours. You do not have to be on a winning team to be eligible for any of our individual awards. That's why they're called individual awards, after all. Two of our first-teamers were on sub-.500 clubs, in fact.

[Gregory Sager]

That's your opinion. It's not ours. You do not have to be on a winning team to be eligible for any of our individual awards. That's why they're called individual awards, after all. Two of our first-teamers were on sub-.500 clubs, in fact.

For those who are wondering, the other AA first-teamer from a losing team is Mt. St. Mary guard Mike Hoyt. His team finished 9-16 and went 6-10 in the Skyline Conference, good for eighth place out of eleven teams.

[Gregory Sager]

I know Thomas transferred to Iowa just to go to school.  I have no idea what happened to Kolze.

Kolze did the same thing as Thomas -- transferred to Iowa and settled for playing intramurals.