MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[north central]

Titan Q.   Very funny.And actually I really dont hate Weslyan that much because I found my self cheering for Weslyan at a track meet because my cousin was an all american long jumper there(he is now a lawyer)    I actually have some good friends that were Rice alums but I went there for a year so my image of rice is not good. But I must say it is a good school just like Weslyan and anyone who went to both is if nothing else well educated and privledged.

[Titan Q]

I posted IWU's tentative schedule a week or so ago...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/sch07-08.doc

For the second time in 3 years, Beloit has backed out of a commitment to play the Titans...not sure what the deal is, but IWU is scrambling to find a game now.

Ron Rose has filled the open spot in IWU's schedule with an in-region game vs Webster on Saturday 12/1.

http://www.iwuhoops.com/sch07-08.doc

[diehardfan]

Fund Tourney: Wittenberg, Benedictine, and Kalamazoo (so I'm assuming Ben first round and Witt second)

Has Wheaton really decided to discard the tradition of having its home tourney named after beloved former coach Lee Pfund in favor of a truth-in-advertising gesture of acknowledging that the tourney is a moneymaking proposition?

Ouch.... That's at least the third time that I've typed it like it sounds.... which is only since I stopped saying it like it's spelled. It's probably the first time I've done it publically though. On the plus side, I've never called him Coach P-fund to his face. 

One things for sure ,as much as i hate brother rice(almost as much as weslyan)

So what are your thoughts on someone who is a graduate of both Brother Rice H.S. and Illinois Wesleyan University?  Not good I assume.

so now remember gang unless you agree with GS - YOU'RE WRONG !!!

I'm going to have to add this to my signature tag at some point. It's sorta the epitome quote on the 10 yr Greg-Dennis feud: Dennis says something extreme, Greg contradicts it, Dennis makes fun of Greg.

[Gregory Sager]

Oh and Sager have you heard of Florentino Valencia (crane) who just finished up at Kent State.

Shhh. Don't help Dennis. He's supposed to be finding the answers on his own.

Well our resident guru is back and in usual form after giving us three weeks of bliss.

so now remember gang unless you agree with GS - YOU'RE WRONG !!!

Nice ad hominem to try to change the subject (as usual), Dennis. Are you going to bother responding to the questions or not?

Race and sports is a very ticklish subject, and I hope that nobody thinks I'm making light of it. But, as Mark indicated, there are oftentimes readily apparent general trends with regard to the participation (or lack thereof) of certain ethnic groups in certain sports. To be completely accurate, we should probably be using the word "culture" instead of "race" in this discussion. Baseball is a shrinking part of the culture of urban blacks ... and basketball has never been a part of the culture of most Hispanic groups, in particular the Mexicans and Central Americans who make up most of the Hispanic population of the northwest suburbs. Which is why I remain baffled by Dennis' assertion that the boys basketball programs at Prospect, Elk Grove, and Rolling Meadows are somehow impaired by the absence of Hispanics on their teams.

I would hope that the new coach at Prospect will play a more exciting style of ball than I saw under his predecessor, regardless of what race of students he has to work with.  Passing the ball around the  outside for the first 40 seconds of every possession makes for very boring basketball.

This is a complaint that's heard a lot in high school basketball circles, and it's not just confined to the northwest suburbs. It begs the question of whether or not a shot clock should be introduced in high school basketball, which is a very interesting debate in and of itself.

and... much like we've seen in college play, the 10 to 15 foot jump shot is nearly a thing of the past - it's either a layup or a three-point attempt.

Again, a truism not confined to the northwest suburban high schools. I think that all of us who've watched basketball for a lot of years would agree that the midrange shot is one of the great lost arts of basketball, along with the pullup jumper, the hook shot, and the up-and-under move in the low post.

One things for sure ,as much as i hate brother rice(almost as much as weslyan)

So what are your thoughts on someone who is a graduate of both Brother Rice H.S. and Illinois Wesleyan University?  Not good I assume.

If he hates the White Sox as well, you win the trifecta, Bob.

Fund Tourney: Wittenberg, Benedictine, and Kalamazoo (so I'm assuming Ben first round and Witt second)

Has Wheaton really decided to discard the tradition of having its home tourney named after beloved former coach Lee Pfund in favor of a truth-in-advertising gesture of acknowledging that the tourney is a moneymaking proposition?

Ouch.... That's at least the third time that I've typed it like it sounds.... which is only since I stopped saying it like it's spelled. It's probably the first time I've done it publically though. On the plus side, I've never called him Coach P-fund to his face. 

Pfair enough, April. Pfrom now on, I pfervently swear that I will pforego pfinding pfault and making pfun of you when it comes to the Pfund tourney.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, my own two eyes have watched Schniedermeier at the December Wheeling Hardwood Classic for a couple of years now  -  giving me an eight game sample.  You've got a gem of a sleeper.  He was a solid post player who came off the bench for some of Loyola's more highly touted big men.  There was no perceptible dropoff when he came in.  He was pretty close to starter minutes  -  just didn't start.  Great footwork down low.  Tireless work ethic.  Selfless play.  Physically strong.  Won't get pushed around in the CCIW.  Strong on the boards.  Good low post moves.  Passes decently for a big man.  I had him pegged as a CCIW player.  He is a nice pickup for North Park.

Thanks, Pete. It's good to read a positive assessment of Schniedermeier from a non-NPU fan who's seen him play several times.

[John Gleich]

I would hope that the new coach at Prospect will play a more exciting style of ball than I saw under his predecessor, regardless of what race of students he has to work with.  Passing the ball around the  outside for the first 40 seconds of every possession makes for very boring basketball.

This is a complaint that's heard a lot in high school basketball circles, and it's not just confined to the northwest suburbs. It begs the question of whether or not a shot clock should be introduced in high school basketball, which is a very interesting debate in and of itself.

My Junior year at Wheaton North, we played West Aurora in one of these types of games... After the first or second possession, we popped back in a 1-2-2 zone (which took WA by surprize I believe...), and WA started zipping the ball back and forth around the perimeter... for much of the first quarter.  It was 4-3 after the first, and 9-8 at halftime.  The thing was, it WASN'T the same boring hold-the-ball basketball that has been played to try to slow down a great team (we ended up 14-10 that year)... they were trying to find some holes in the zone, and didn't find (or attempt to create) any. 

I'm still bitter about how that game ended... down one with under 20 seconds, Jim Thomas made a nice move and took a contested, pull-up, leaning jumper at about 12 feet that just missed... and Terry Mitchel elevated over a much smaller WA player who just looked up (didn't box out, didn't do anything), and T Mitch tipped in the rebound with about 2 seconds to go... and was called over the back.  The other guy went down and nailed two free throws for a 37-34 WA win, but we totally got hosed.

... and this game was even IN WHEATON!

Oh well.

My senior year we beat a Streamwood team ranked about 8th in the state on a very similar play that WAS called in our favor... that one almost made up for the one the year before... but not quite (especially if I'm still bitter about it 8 years later!)

[sac]

Here's where I pull out my favorite trivial high school basketball score from Michigan......


January 16, 1996

Jackson Northwest 7 Haslett 6  ----------5 Overtimes

[Mr. Ypsi]

YIKES!!

I think I'd rather watch paint dry!

[John Gleich]

It seems like situations like that would definitely warrant some type of a shot clock, even if it was, say, 60 seconds.   In most situations, it wouldn't come into affect, but it would prevent teams from playing stall-ball...

Here's an article from 2006 in the Milwaukee Jounal Sentinal about the subject.

Here's another from 2006 from the Sun Times.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Aren't the refs charged with stopping activity disrespectful to the game?  Certainly this qualifies, doesn't it!?!

[AndOne]

Disrespectful for sure, Hoops. Unfortunately, not illegal (yet).   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Disrespectful for sure, Hoops. Unfortunately, not illegal (yet). 

Yeah, but the point is they can stop disrespectful behavior, it's in the job description.  Just have the refs tell them to shoot within 60 seconds or turn the ball over.  You'd just have to get a league commissioner on board.

Maybe they can split these teams into "old school" and "new school" divisions.  Let the slow teams play each other.

[north central]

well in high school some teams slowed the ball down on us and I played in like 3 games in the 20's which was painful.

As a head high school coach I would love to see a shot clock in high school but I must admit our only chance to win a couple of games this season was to slow it down a bit.

I dont think it will happen though because it would be most detrimental to the less talented, less athletic, class A schools and theres no way the IHSA would do anything to hurt those small schools. As we see thats why 2 extra classes were added to help those kind of teams, which are for the most part majority white.

[pylorus]

I disagree that playing a slowdown game in high school is disrespectful. The team that is on defense has the option of coming out and staying within 6 feet of the person with the ball for five continuous seconds and being awarded possession. If the team is unable to maintain a distance of 6 feet from the ball or is unable to force a turnover in another manner, they're not good enough defensively.

High school basketball, especially that played in small schools, causes coaches to vary their attack from year to year. If you don't have much talent, you had better adjust and find ways to win games or you'll get destroyed. Obviously in college if a coach doesn't have the talent, they need to hit the recruiting trail harder.   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I disagree that playing a slowdown game in high school is disrespectful. The team that is on defense has the option of coming out and staying within 6 feet of the person with the ball for five continuous seconds and being awarded possession. If the team is unable to maintain a distance of 6 feet from the ball or is unable to force a turnover in another manner, they're not good enough defensively.

I'm glad they've added that rule where you are.  Not every state uses it for high school basketball.