MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

On another board a poster talked about 'walk-ons', and someone (Smedindy?) pointed out that (with no scholarships or letters of intent) technically ALL d3 players are walk-ons.  I responded that it was still a useful distinction, differentiating recruited players from those who truly were discovered on campus (whether open tryouts, dominating IMs, etc.).

So, Ron Rose (and hopefully his interpreter Q!) - what exactly is a 'recruited walk-on'?!  Was Rose simply very honest with the kid: 'I'd really like you to come and I'll give you an honest chance, but frankly your chances of seeing the floor much are slim'?

The term "recruited walk-on" that Ron Rose was quoted as using is really DI speak, but yes, I'd say the way you summed it up is close from what I know. 

Michael Kempf was a solid player at Hersey H.S. (Sean Dwyer's alma mater).  His college decision came down to Kenyon College and Illinois Wesleyan.  When Kempf expressed interest in IWU, Ron explained that he'd come in behind freshmen guards like Travis Rosenkranz, Sean Johnson, and Chris Stamas on the depth chart, and that if he still wanted to come to IWU, work hard, and work his way up, IWU would love to have him.

I've learned that you never know how things will turn out.  Matt Arnold turned out to be a huge part of the Class of 2006 (a starter his junior year), and he was a "recruited walk-on" at best coming in.  You won't find his name on my spring 2002 recruiting report, just as Michael's isn't on the spring 2006 list of "recruits"...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/recruiting2002a.html

http://www.iwuhoops.com/recr07.htm

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks, 33 and Q.  I figured that must be about it, but wasn't sure.  +k to you both.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

It makes it easier to do that sort of thing (recruited walk-on) when there aren't roster limitations.  Obviously the kid isn't a walk-on in the d3 sense (because the coach knows about him ahead of time), but he isn't getting any promises from the coach.  If the school is willing to have a long bench (or a JV team in this case), they can take a whole bunch of players beyond those they reasonably anticipate using over the next four years.

[cciwgrad]

Response to recent strings of thought....

As an ex-CCIW player...

1. Recruited is recruited [scholarships or not]... walk-on is a walk-on.  Kids take chances... risk is risk.

2. Yeah sure... some HS teams could beat a D3, but can some D3's beat D1's or D2's??... doesn't the NCAA tourney teach us... Could these HS teams beat the Sikma IWU NAIA teams of the mid 70's or the following North Park D3 champs three years running??

3.  Reason to go to school are far more complex.  It is not only a bball decision.  Best Student/althletes?? D3 players.

4. Players go where they "think" [or told] they can play.  Would kids go to a level to sit the bench [even Duke??...NC??..]

5.  Where can good small HS or good large HS players on bad teams go.

Conclusion...  Good thing there is D1 down to D3...  cream "usually" rises to the top and players should go to the level and school where it fits them best.  BUT LOVE OF THE GAME?!?!?!  How is that different at any level?? Even when the college career is over??.  Life is more than bball... but man it can be a GREAT add!!

[stepping off the soap box now]

ps... the CCIW has... and stiil has a "high quality level" of bball... stipulating that it is D3. 

[Gregory Sager]

Good point Sager and Titan Q  I think bottom line is that if Division 3 offered something more tangible and more obvious( ie: scholarships,monetary benifits, celebrity, fame, tv exposure, ) than the joys of basketball, the feeling of being on a team, the competition  and other reasons then it would be more popular.

True, but then it wouldn't be D3. The whole point of D3 is to put academics before athletics, the implication being that athletic scholarships, monetary benefits, celebrity, fame, TV exposure, etc., put the cart before the horse as far as a college education is concerned. If keeping priorities in proper order means that D3 thus has to suffer from a lack of popularity -- and from a plethora of misunderstandings about D3's quality of competition from those who are ignorant of it -- then so be it.

But Sager you must admit even though many of those reasons for not playing are stupid some are good points. Many good high school gyms are better than D 3 and a few teams could beat some d 3 teams.

It depends upon what you mean by a "good point". Are some high school gyms better than some D3 gyms? Yep, no doubt about it. But is that really a valid reason to dismiss out of hand the level of competition played in those unimpressive D3 gyms? I'd say no. The value of a gift isn't defined by the box it came in. And, yeah, there are isolated high school teams here and there that could beat some D3 teams. But there are precious few of them that could -- and keep in mind that D3 covers a huge spectrum of competitive levels, something that D3's naysayers don't take into account. In fact, that D3 spectrum overlaps the scholarship-level spectra as well, as cciwgrad stated in his second point. If you go by the Massey Ratings (which is a useful tool, but one that should be taken with a grain of salt), there's a huge overlap between D3 and the lower scholarship levels (D2, NAIA-1, and NAIA-2).

So, again, it depends upon what you mean by a "good point." In the hands of a naysayer, somewhere along the line a "good point" often crosses over into either ignorance or a rationalized excuse not to bother with D3.

3.  Reason to go to school are far more complex.  It is not only a bball decision.

Now that is a good point!

4. Players go where they "think" [or told] they can play.  Would kids go to a level to sit the bench [even Duke??...NC??..]

Some of them obviously do. If you're going to walk on at a high-level D1, even as a so-called "preferred walk-on", you must have some idea going in that you're the low man on the totem pole. Kids grow up watching the Dukes and Louisvilles and UNCs on TV, and thus they know darn well what long odds there are against a walk-on ever seeing anything but a token garbage minute in a blowout here or there (and even that usually only as an upperclassman). Sometimes the attraction of walking on at a D1 doesn't even have to be at a top-notch program in a power conference to have a greater appeal to a high school prospect than a D3 school. The prospect who was at the top of NPU's recruiting list this past year turned down the chance to come to the Park (where he would've been a key player right away) in favor of being a preferred walk-on at a Horizon League school.

We often talk on Posting Up about D1 walk-on kids not making the right decisions, many realizing after their career has already started that D3 is the best level for them (and if they're smart, they realize it and transfer before it's too late and their eligibility has come and gone). But it needs to be said that these kids, though often naive and guided by emotion, know full well what they're getting into when they decide to walk on at a D1. Some of them are doing exactly what they want to do by spending four or five years at the end of a D1 bench: soaking up the big-time atmosphere, basking in the reflected glory of their teammates, and being able to tell people that they wear/wore the uni of a Kansas or a Maryland or a UCLA. What they don't often know is how much better the alternative of going to a D3 school and actually playing rather than riding the pine for four or five years can be ... and that goes back to what I said last night about high school prospects often being uninformed as to what D3 is really all about.

[Titan Q]

Here is a video documenting a recent Phoenix Hagen game (the team Zach Freeman plays for in Germany).  Not a lot of Zach in the video but a real good look at what the atmosphere is like...

http://www.werthmedia.de/spielbericht.php?id=2

Zach had his career high as a professional this weekend, with 15 points (4-5 FG) in a win...

http://www.phoenix-hagen.de/index.php?area=1&p=news&newsid=24


Sounds like he is doing well so far.

Here are the video highlights from the game where Zach scored 15 over the weekend.  He appears in this one quite a bit, including an interview (he is #7)...

http://www.werthmedia.de/spielbericht.php?id=6

[Titan Q]

A blog entry covering Andrew Gilmore's health status...

http://iwuhoops.blogspot.com/

[Titan Q]

IWU freshman point-guard Travis Rosenkranz, a strong candidate to start, has suffered a stress fracture in his back.  Early word is that he is out for about 4 weeks.

With Sean Dwyer still about 6 weeks away, the Titans may start the season in that same predicament they were in last year -- without a true point guard.  It will be interesting to see who emerges as the leading candidate while Dwyer and Rosenkranz are out.  Hopefully both will be healthy and ready to go by sometime in mid/late December (even when cleared to play, I'm sure it will take both a while to be ready to play).

In a very talented group of freshmen, Matt Schick (6-4 G/F, Lincoln H.S.) seems to be the guy that caught the attention of the upperclassmen the most in preseason pickup games.  Matt, an IBCA Class AA 3rd Team All-stater, finished with some really impressive stats at one of the state's basketball powerhouses.  Matt started for 4 years at Lincoln and his teams went 109-26 (.807) with two trips to Peoria.  He is not the type to turn your head and is certainly not flashy, but just one of those guys you like to have on your team.  He has a chance to be a solid player for the Titans...

http://iwuhoops.blogspot.com/2007/04/lincolns-matt-schick-picks-wesleyan.html

IWU's list of injured/missing players here in the early days of practice is:

Robert Beauchamp (6-1 JR, PG) - football (transfer from Parkland CC)
Sean Dwyer (5-11 SO, PG) - broken foot
Andrew Gilmore (6-3 JR, G) - knee surgery (both knees)
Brian Nussbaum (6-6 SR, F) - broken nose
Travis Rosenkranz (6-0 FR, PG) - stress fracture in back
Dan Schouten (6-6 FR, F) - shoulder surgery

There are some talented guys there that the Titans need to get healthy.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wow - can't these guys at least wait for the season to start to get injured?!

Oh, well.  [Spin doctor alert!]  They have a chance for 'redemption' for 2006.  We ended the non-conference season undefeated, unanimously ranked #1 in the country, and (compared to expectations) 'laid an egg' in the CCIW (mostly redeemed by #3 in the d3 tourney).  This year the non-conference looks like rough going, no one will expect anything, but if everyone returns in fine form, who knows for the CCIW?   And just think of the game experience for players who wouldn't otherwise have gotten so much!

signed,
Pollyanna

[Dennis_Prikkel]

IWU freshman point-guard Travis Rosenkranz, a strong candidate to start, has suffered a stress fracture in his back.  Early word is that he is out for about 4 weeks.

With Sean Dwyer still about 6 weeks away, the Titans may start the season in that same predicament they were in last year -- without a true point guard.  It will be interesting to see who emerges as the leading candidate while Dwyer and Rosenkranz are out.  Hopefully both will be healthy and ready to go by sometime in mid/late December (even when cleared to play, I'm sure it will take both a while to be ready to play).

In a very talented group of freshmen, Matt Schick (6-4 G/F, Lincoln H.S.) seems to be the guy that caught the attention of the upperclassmen the most in preseason pickup games.  Matt, an IBCA Class AA 3rd Team All-stater, finished with some really impressive stats at one of the state's basketball powerhouses.  Matt started for 4 years at Lincoln and his teams went 109-26 (.807) with two trips to Peoria.  He is not the type to turn your head and is certainly not flashy, but just one of those guys you like to have on your team.  He has a chance to be a solid player for the Titans...

http://iwuhoops.blogspot.com/2007/04/lincolns-matt-schick-picks-wesleyan.html

IWU's list of injured/missing players here in the early days of practice is:

Robert Beauchamp (6-1 JR, PG) - football (transfer from Parkland CC)
Sean Dwyer (5-11 SO, PG) - broken foot
Andrew Gilmore (6-3 JR, G) - knee surgery (both knees)
Brian Nussbaum (6-6 SR, F) - broken nose
Travis Rosenkranz (6-0 FR, PG) - stress fracture in back
Dan Schouten (6-6 FR, F) - shoulder surgery

There are some talented guys there that the Titans need to get healthy.

Q - are most of these injuries occuring on the all-purpose floor at the Shirk or are they occuring on the main wooden floor?

MW

[Titan Q]

IWU freshman point-guard Travis Rosenkranz, a strong candidate to start, has suffered a stress fracture in his back.  Early word is that he is out for about 4 weeks.

With Sean Dwyer still about 6 weeks away, the Titans may start the season in that same predicament they were in last year -- without a true point guard.  It will be interesting to see who emerges as the leading candidate while Dwyer and Rosenkranz are out.  Hopefully both will be healthy and ready to go by sometime in mid/late December (even when cleared to play, I'm sure it will take both a while to be ready to play).

In a very talented group of freshmen, Matt Schick (6-4 G/F, Lincoln H.S.) seems to be the guy that caught the attention of the upperclassmen the most in preseason pickup games.  Matt, an IBCA Class AA 3rd Team All-stater, finished with some really impressive stats at one of the state's basketball powerhouses.  Matt started for 4 years at Lincoln and his teams went 109-26 (.807) with two trips to Peoria.  He is not the type to turn your head and is certainly not flashy, but just one of those guys you like to have on your team.  He has a chance to be a solid player for the Titans...

http://iwuhoops.blogspot.com/2007/04/lincolns-matt-schick-picks-wesleyan.html

IWU's list of injured/missing players here in the early days of practice is:

Robert Beauchamp (6-1 JR, PG) - football (transfer from Parkland CC)
Sean Dwyer (5-11 SO, PG) - broken foot
Andrew Gilmore (6-3 JR, G) - knee surgery (both knees)
Brian Nussbaum (6-6 SR, F) - broken nose
Travis Rosenkranz (6-0 FR, PG) - stress fracture in back
Dan Schouten (6-6 FR, F) - shoulder surgery

There are some talented guys there that the Titans need to get healthy.

Q - are most of these injuries occuring on the all-purpose floor at the Shirk or are they occuring on the main wooden floor?

MW

They have occured in different places, Dennis.  Dwyer got hurt @ UW-Whitewater last year...Schouten in a pickup game in the Chicago area this summer, etc.  Nussbaum's broken nose is just one of those bad luck things - he caught an elbow.  Gilmore's knee situation developed over a long period of time.  Rosenkranz's back injury was kind of a freak thing.

So, I don't think there is any tie to the playing surface.  But generally, the players are always on a regular wood floor surface at the Shirk Center (either the main arena or the practice gym), as opposed to this "all purpose" surface...

http://www.iwuhoops.com/shirk,rec.jpg 

[Titan Q]

Something about seeing Grinnell score with a "0" just doesn't compute in my head.

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/10/21/sports/doc471ad778c5099550064272.txt

[kenoshamark]

Here is a portion of the Carthage preview from their website:

2008 Season Outlook

Head coach Bosko Djurickovic (189-96 in 11 years at Carthage/385-175, 21 years overall) returns 13-of-16 letterwinners from last year's 16-9 team.  Lost to graduation are center Brian Schlemm, guard Scott Hood and guard Navarro Thompson.  Returning regulars include third-team All-CCIW guard Trey Bowens (13.2 points per game, started 20-of-25 games), guard Sean Fendley (7.8 points, played in 24-of-25 games and made five starts), forward Milos Vukosavljevic (Sr., Rockford, Ill./Oregon, 6.9 points, played in 20-of-25 games and made 10 starts), Neb Franciskovic (Sr., Subotica, Serbia, 5.9 points, played in all 25 games and made five starts), guard Billy Shemerdiak (Jr., Orland Park, Ill./Sandburg,, 4.7 points, played in all 25 games and made 12 starts), forward Billy Jacklin (3.7 points, played in all 25 games and made 15 starts), guard Joe Higgins (2.6 points, 4.0 assists, played in all 25 games and made 24 starts) and forward Dave Mikolaitis (Jr., Algonquin, Ill./Woodstock-Marian Central Catholic, 1.7 points per game, played in 14 games).



Leading newcomers are guard Logan Derrick (Fr., Waukegan, Ill./Warren Township, Illinois Basketball Coaches Association honorable mention all-state) and guard Steve Djurickovic (Fr., Kenosha, Wis./Bradford, Wisconsin Basketball Coaches Association Division 1 first-team all-state and Associated Press honorable mention all-state).



"I like this basketball team," says coach Djurickovic.  "I think we're going to be good this year, but I think we'll be even better over the next couple of years.  This freshmen class has a chance to be exceptional.  It's hard to compare classes, and we've had some great ones, but this is a good class.  This should also be a group very committed to getting better."



I wouldn't trade our group of perimeter players with any coach in the league," says Djurickovic, "and maybe anywhere in the country.  Between Trey Bowens, Sean Fendley and Joe Higgins, along with freshmen Logan Derrick and Steve Djurickovic, those are either exceptional players or players who can be exceptional.  If we rebound, we'll be very competitive in every game.  We're going to present some horrible matchup problems for everyone this year, since we're playing smaller people at all the other positions.  On the other hand, we'll have a problem matching up with the size-type teams.  We have enough flexibility so that if we do things right, we can attack certain places and make ourselves successful."

[kenoshamark]

This link will take you to the basketball page where you will find a profile on each player and comments from Bosko.

http://www.carthage.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/

[Titan Q]

"I wouldn't trade our group of perimeter players with any coach in the league," says Djurickovic, "and maybe anywhere in the country."

Oh boy...here we go again with Bosko hyperbole.