MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[AndOne]

And mine was meant as a (probably feeble) joke in keeping with the Bosko-speak theme that was initiated by another poster. I had no idea anyone would take it so seriously. In fact, I made it a point to add the smiley face at the end of my post to
reinforce that line of thought.

And Greg-----I'm sure Bosko thanks you for your defense and support!

[Titan Q]

Q, any details on the Titans' trip out here to SoCal in December?  Will you be enjoying a warm weather New Year's Eve party?

devildog, I'm trying to work through a couple conflicts to get out there, but nothing confired yet.  I've made the last five IWU holiday trips and always had a great time...hoping to be in L.A.!

[kenoshamark]

Portion of Greg's post...

But the thing that you have to remember is that Bosko is not the least bit interested in what a gaggle of Internet bozos thinks of his comments. He's interested in what his players think of his comments, because that's his intended audience. (Carthage's fan base is also an intended audience to a lesser degree; he wants to see fannies occupying the seats in the Carthage gym this winter, so his praise of his team serves the dual purpose of getting the Red Men faithful excited.) The next time that Bosko reads CCIW Chat will be the first time. We are not on his radar in terms of those to whom he feels he needs to explain himself. As K-Mark will tell you, the existence of this room is a source of amusement to Bosko. Don't be offended by that; K-Mark isn't offended, and I'm not, either. Armchair generals (and armchair coaches) ought to have a healthy sense of their own relative lack of importance.


Greg, well said, and I would think Bosko feels the term "bozos" might be to kind.   

I would say there are plenty of times over the past 10 years that I have scratched my head over a comment he made, choice of who he was playing, or strategy during the game but once I gather my thoughts I go back to what Greg pointed out....this man has 5 National Championship rings.   We sit here and analyze comments, recruiting, personnel, etc  and the majority of us may have been lucky enough to coach a grade school or travel team at best.   I like that he is willing to step out and say what he feels - good to see that type of personality.  Who knows....maybe he just might be right.....stay tuned !!!!

[Gregory Sager]

But the thing that you have to remember is that Bosko is not the least bit interested in what a gaggle of Internet bozos thinks of his comments. He's interested in what his players think of his comments, because that's his intended audience. (Carthage's fan base is also an intended audience to a lesser degree; he wants to see fannies occupying the seats in the Carthage gym this winter, so his praise of his team serves the dual purpose of getting the Red Men faithful excited.) The next time that Bosko reads CCIW Chat will be the first time. We are not on his radar in terms of those to whom he feels he needs to explain himself. As K-Mark will tell you, the existence of this room is a source of amusement to Bosko. Don't be offended by that; K-Mark isn't offended, and I'm not, either. Armchair generals (and armchair coaches) ought to have a healthy sense of their own relative lack of importance.

I'm sure this is true Greg, but the fact that the Trey Bowen quote (something like "he is better as a freshman than Antoine McDaniel was a freshman") disappeared from Bowen's profile a few weeks into that season - after it was absolutely picked apart here - makes me think that he just might care about how it sounds.

We don't know that Bosko asked to have that removed. Somebody else might've asked to have it removed, or Steve Marovich could've removed it on his own. Also, it's just as likely that Bosko could've asked to have it removed because it was not having the desired effect in terms of Bowens' reaction to it. In other words, we can't say with any certainty that Bosko had it removed for PR reasons.

Also, you mention the principles of "coachspeak" and that Bosko is a master at it:

* don't let your words draw undue attention to you;
* never say more than you have to;
* use cliches as often as possible, because they're safe;
* state the obvious again and again, as though you hold stock in Obvious, Inc.;
* always praise an opponent (although if you're excessive about it the way that Lou Holtz used to be, you'll only draw further attention to yourself); and
* never give an opponent locker-room bulletin board material

Is it possible that the quote, "I wouldn't trade our group of perimeter players with any coach in the league" goes against at least a couple of those above?  This is a league with Kent Raymond and Ryan Burks and Jordan Delp/Matt Pelton/Brett Wessels among other good backcourt players.  We all know that a lot of players and coaches read this board -- it would seem to me that a quote like that (about a cast that has never contended for a CCIW title) might just fire up opposing perimeter players just a bit.

This is what I referred to in my post last night as the "diminishing returns" that comes with such hyperbole. Sooner or later you might praise your own players so much that opposing players will resent it. Or, as I suspect might've happened with Bowens, you may praise a player who does not respond positively to it. I said that Bosko was very good with Coachspeak. I didn't say that he was infallible when it came to its use. As I think I made pretty clear last night, he's said a number of things over the past few years that've puzzled me.

I have to temper my suspicion that he's cranked up his hype machine too high with the realization that he's the expert on basketball player psychology and I'm not. He's earned the benefit of the doubt. I, like every other Internet bozo, do not have five national championship rings in my sock drawer.

True, but he is also just 28-28 in CCIW play over the course of the last four seasons and I would guess that the Red Men are heading for about 7-7 again.  If some internet bozos want to call his recent "basketball player psychology" into question, it's pretty fair.

So the last four years invalidates all of his previous success at NPU and Carthage? Come on, Bob. Bosko hasn't forgotten how to coach basketball ... and a significant part of coaching basketball is mastering player psychology.

Greg, mine was the only reference to the beloved Yogi Berra and it was only in relation to the mathematical impossibility of half of you over here, half of you over there, and the rest stay with me..........unless, of course, he was just looking for a little privacy at that point of the practice.  In that case, it makes perfect sense and is, in fact, a crystal clear, highly effective semantical delight.  Possible.

And mine was meant as a (probably feeble) joke in keeping with the Bosko-speak theme that was initiated by another poster. I had no idea anyone would take it so seriously. In fact, I made it a point to add the smiley face at the end of my post to
reinforce that line of thought.

And Greg-----I'm sure Bosko thanks you for your defense and support!

Thanks, guys. I wasn't really taking your comments that seriously. I just wanted to state for the record that there is a method to Bosko's madness ... even if it isn't always apparent to the layman. As for Bosko thanking me for my defense and support, he'd have to know that I had done so in the first place in order to thank me, and since he doesn't read CCIW Chat he probably never will. As I said, I'm more interested in setting the record straight than I am in defending him.

Greg, well said, and I would think Bosko feels the term "bozos" might be to kind.   

I would say there are plenty of times over the past 10 years that I have scratched my head over a comment he made, choice of who he was playing, or strategy during the game but once I gather my thoughts I go back to what Greg pointed out....this man has 5 National Championship rings.   We sit here and analyze comments, recruiting, personnel, etc  and the majority of us may have been lucky enough to coach a grade school or travel team at best.

Exactly. Not a Carthage game goes by when Bosko doesn't make some sort of coaching move that leads me to cock a quizzical eyebrow. But they usually work, and they usually make sense in retrospect. In a larger sense, I think that this conversation is really more about recognizing our limitations as fans, no matter how into the game, the teams, and our league we are and no matter how much experience we have in following the CCIW and D3 basketball. As you say, most of us are lucky if we ever coached a grade school team. I question the methodology of lots of other successful coaches besides Bosko -- Bill Harris's decisions are frequently an enigma to me, for example, and I've seen enough Calvin games to say that I don't quite "get" Kevin VandeStreek, either. But those guys obviously know what they're doing, because their records speak for themselves. It's more about understanding my limitations as a basketball aficionado than it is about second-guessing them. I think that I have a good understanding of the game for a fan, but the gulf between my grasp of the game and theirs is considerable ... and I'm not ashamed to admit that.

Does that mean that I'm never going to second-guess a coach? Not on your life. I'll never give up my right to throw in my two cents about particular coaching decisions. But since I'm aware that I'm a dilettante who has no actual experience as a college basketball coach, I'll throw in those two cents with as much humility as I can muster.

[Titan Q]

IWU scrimmages NAIA St. Francis tomorrow night in Joliet.  Pure speculation on my part, but my best guess is that Ron Rose will start...

G Sean Johnson (6-1/175, FR)
G Jordan Morris (6-3/195, JR)
F Duncan Lawson (6-8/225, FR) or Matt Schick (6-4/190, FR)
F Darius Gant (6-4/210, SR)
C Doug Sexauer (6-7/210, FR) or Edmond O'Callaghan (6-7/120, FR)


I'm guessing this one will probably not be pretty.  IWU may have 3 freshmen starting...St. Francis has been practicing for almost a month, IWU for a week...IWU will not have a true point-guard on the floor with Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Dwyer still out (Sean Johnson was 2 at Washington HS)...Zach Freeman is in Germany.

I won't be up there but will try to post some information when I get it.

[MilkMan25]

Just curious if anyone knows, but out of the graduating seniors from last year are any others playing ball overseas besides for Freeman???

[byitisee]

The Wheaton 2007-2008 roster is available on the school's website.

Five new freshman join the Thunder along with sophomore transfer Jacob Carwell.

Also, John Mohan is not listed on the Wheaton roster for this season.

[Titan Q]

Just a reminder that men's basketball institutes the conference tournament "play-in" next year (2008-09).  Sounds like it will be identical to what volleyball does...

http://www.cciw.org/fall_volleyball/2007playin.php

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So they've simply added a "play-in" round, but the official tournament is still just 4 teams?  That's seems very CCIW of them.

[petemcb]

IWU scrimmages NAIA St. Francis tomorrow night in Joliet.  Pure speculation on my part, but my best guess is that Ron Rose will start...

G Sean Johnson (6-1/175, FR)
G Jordan Morris (6-3/195, JR)
F Duncan Lawson (6-8/225, FR) or Matt Schick (6-4/190, FR)
F Darius Gant (6-4/210, SR)
C Doug Sexauer (6-7/210, FR) or Edmond O'Callaghan (6-7/120, FR)


I'm guessing this one will probably not be pretty.  IWU may have 3 freshmen starting...St. Francis has been practicing for almost a month, IWU for a week...IWU will not have a true point-guard on the floor with Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Dwyer still out (Sean Johnson was 2 at Washington HS)...Zach Freeman is in Germany.

I won't be up there but will try to post some information when I get it.

Q, any idea what time that scrimmage is?  I might be able to make that one.  In fact, my son's coach at Prospect (the one who bleeds green) might be interested in taking the team down there.  He's got them at the Bulls preseason game tonight.  He is really off to an exciting start with the program.

[Titan Q]

Pete, I will find out the time later this evening and post.

[Titan Q]

So they've simply added a "play-in" round, but the official tournament is still just 4 teams?  That's seems very CCIW of them.

I still do not understand it.  Seems to me it only hurts the CCIW teams.  Since it is not officially considered an 8-team tournament, the "play-in" game is not exempt -- meaning, each CCIW team will have to lose one of their 11 non-conference games to open up a spot for what we are not, I guess, supposed to refer to as a the "first round."  So basically, you have 8 teams all losing the opportunity to win a regional game in November and December (the cumulative affect of which is significant), and you are replacing it with a night in which 4 CCIW teams are guaranteed to lose. 

This has something to do with the CCIW wanting all teams, all sports to have the same conference tournament setup and I guess a few sports do not want an 8-team tournament.  But if you create an 8-team "play-in" to a 4-team tournament, guess what -- you have an 8-team tournament.   

It seems not only silly to me, it seems like it is bad for the league.   Just call it an 8-team tournament.

[petemcb]

Thanks, Bob.  If I can get there tomorrow night, I'll be sure to post as well.  By the way, my son and I are trying to make it down to IWU to see the Carthage @ IWU soccer game Saturday afternoon.  He's looking at both schools for next year and hoping to play soccer wherever he goes.  Any recommendations for a good supper at a place that a kid considering IWU should not miss?

[Titan Q]

Thanks, Bob.  If I can get there tomorrow night, I'll be sure to post as well.  By the way, my son and I are trying to make it down to IWU to see the Carthage @ IWU soccer game Saturday afternoon.  He's looking at both schools for next year and hoping to play soccer wherever he goes.  Any recommendations for a good supper at a place that a kid considering IWU should not miss?

Wow - the Titans are still in the mix?  This is getting serious.  Drop me an e-mail -- let's figure out where to send the young man.  There are some things at the Pub II on ISU's campus I think he might want to see, but probably not until his junior year. 

PS  Coach Camardella was in town last week to watch Ron Rose's practice.  He was wearing glasses and had a clipboard.  Coaching seems to be treating him well so far -- he looked more studious.  Of course, the Knights haven't played a game yet.  I'll be carefully monitoring his hair color over the course of the next few seasons.

[Titan Q]

The IWU/St. Francis scrimmage is at 7:00pm.

http://www.stfrancis.edu/visitors/regmap.htm


Again, be prepared - it aint going to be pretty.