MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[petemcb]

Millikin33,
               Couldn't disagree with you more,a good D3 team could keep up with a bad D1 school. Size is a very big factor I agree, I'm new to the CCIW but put 6 inches on Kent Raymond and maybe somebody like Villanova University or West Virginia may have called. You can teach somebody to play ball but you can't teach him to be tall, there is alot of talent in D3 that could be good D1 players.

One night, Raymond's freshman year, I was at a Wheaton game sitting beside a lady who seemed to know a lot about basketball and wasn't afraid to share that knowledge with those around her OR the refs on the floor.  Her understanding of the game was pretty impressive, and her accent suggested she wasn't from around these parts so I asked her if she had somebody playing in the game.  She turned out to be Kent Raymond's mom.  During the conversation, I asked her if Raymond had any other collegiate playing opportunities.  She identified Butler and Harvard as the two other leading candidates.  FWIW.

[north central]

Millikin33,
               Couldn't disagree with you more,a good D3 team could keep up with a bad D1 school. Size is a very big factor I agree, I'm new to the CCIW but put 6 inches on Kent Raymond and maybe somebody like Villanova University or West Virginia may have called. You can teach somebody to play ball but you can't teach him to be tall, there is alot of talent in D3 that could be good D1 players. Look at NIU's  Michael Hart I couldn't tell you how he played at Carthage but he was starting at Center the two nights I saw him and I think he will do well at NIU.Why should D3 schools lose by 20 points? If D3 schools had athletic scholarships you would see a smaller gap between D3 and D1, how many players did your school lose because they couldn't afford to go to schools like Millikin or North Central that ended up at a CC  or yet smaller D3 school? How many D1 players would rather play at a D3 school than sit at a D1? Maybe I'm getting off track but I really believe a good D3 can compete with bad or average D1 and not expect to lose by 20.

Muskie fan your points are very valid. I think if you add 3 inches then 80 percent of cciw  d 3 players would be d 1. And ofcourse if d 3's had scholarship they would be able to compete with d 1's And those d 1 players who would sit at a d1 usually go d 2 or NAIA or juco instead of  d 3 if they are d 1 level talents. And for the exact reason you mentioned is why d 3's sholud lose to d1's because its usually a 2-4 inch height advantage at every position and usually a quickness advantage as well.  And actually if Kent Raymond  or any other very good d 3 player had six incches then like Sager said he maybe could be in the league one day.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[martin]

If you are sitting at your computer this evening and need a diversion, the Chicago-Northwestern game will be webcast.  The link is at this page. Tipoff is 7pm.

Northwestern makes you register to watch their webcasts.  The game will also be on the Big Ten Network.  Comcast does not carry it - Big Ten wants it as part of the basic cable package, Comcast wants to put it as an extra.  I think the satellite channels and RCN carry the Big Ten Network.

CORRECTION:  Big Ten Network will be showing the UWEC-Wisconsin game, not UC-NU.  The webcast information for the UC-NU game is correct. 

Click here for more info about Bo Ryan's return to his roots for 2007.

[Late nite]

The success that the 3 point shooters from last year (Delp, Brusveen and Swetalla) was mainly the direct result of Drew Wessels breaking down the defense and creating openings for the shooters---As I said before, I don't think that Augie has that type of point guard this year---Pelton may do a good job of running an offense, but he doesn't have the explosiveness off the dribble---I think you may see Delp playing more 1 guard---He is probably their quickest guard off the dribble and he won't have to depend on others to get him the ball in scoring position---A good point guard can make everyone look better---I hope that Pelton is that answer

[augiefan]

I feel properly chastised for my poor memory of Augie's 3 point shooting from last year. One thing is certain and that is one should know the facts before posting here. I have been wrong before due to an aging memory, but this one pretty much takes the cake.

There certainly was no evidence of 3 point shooting skill on Monday night, but it is after all only the exhibition season. Much fun and competition on the near horizon for CCIW loyalists.

[AndOne]

The success that the 3 point shooters from last year (Delp, Brusveen and Swetalla) was mainly the direct result of Drew Wessels breaking down the defense and creating openings for the shooters---As I said before, I don't think that Augie has that type of point guard this year---Pelton may do a good job of running an offense, but he doesn't have the explosiveness off the dribble---I think you may see Delp playing more 1 guard---He is probably their quickest guard off the dribble and he won't have to depend on others to get him the ball in scoring position---A good point guard can make everyone look better---I hope that Pelton is that answer

I think Late may have something here. Wessels didn't make 1st team all conference for nothing. One of the marks of a superior player is that he makes those around him better. I think he was indeed a big reason for Augie's success from 3 point land.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if Pelton will be the answer at point. First of all, with Wessels deservingly playing big minutes at point last year, how much experience did he really gain at the point position? Secondly, going by last year's stats, with his shooting % in the 55-56% range, point may be a misuse of his best talents. Perhaps he could best be used periodically in a 3 guard offense where he and Delp man the wings and launch their shots off feeds from whoever emerges as the Vikings best ballhandler/passer.

Lastly, I also don't look for Delp to switch from 2 to 1. He is too good from the 2 spot to risk trying to convert him to a PG. The bet here is that if he was to put his energies both from a physical, and especially a mental perspective into learning a new position, his shooting would suffer. I think Coach G is too crafty to risk that happening.

[AndOne]

Just out of curiosity, how did North Central end up bringing World Harvest Bible College into their Season opening tournament?  Checked them out on Google, could not find any athletics on the site, and they are not in the NCCAA or the ACCA, the 2 college associations that bring together most of the small Bible schools in the country together....

Todd Raridon was forced to scramble to find a last-minute replacement after UW-LaCrosse bowed out of the NCC Tipoff Tourney. Beggars can't be choosers, so NCC should be happy that there will be a fourth team representing any sort of educational institution whatsoever in the airplane hangar on opening weekend. However, when you can't find any indication on the school's website that it even has a basketball team, and the team doesn't appear to be a member of any known intercollegiate association ... well, that's a pretty ominous foreshadowing of the sort of quality that you can expect from that team.

My first prediction of the year is: North Central 105, World Harvest Bible 30

(And I am breathing a sigh of relief that Paul Brenegan was able to scare up a game with Cardinal Stritch at the last minute after Oberlin's head coach bailed on his contract to have the Yeomen visit the crackerbox two weeks from this coming Saturday. I would not want my alma mater's team to be the one stuck playing the likes of World Harvest Bible College.)

The other two teams in the NCC Tipoff Tourney, Lindenwood and Taylor, are fairly well-established, although not outstanding, NAIA-2 programs.

Wow, this is a real puzzler!  World Harvest Bible College is listed on one website as being a member of the USCAA , a separate athletic association for small schools.  Members listed on the sites include New Hampshire Tech, La Sierra, and Hesser.  The WHBC site does not have an athletics link.

The USCAA is actually something of a known quantity in CCIW circles, because Robert Morris College-Springfield is a member of that organization. In fact, RMCS has reached the USCAA Final Four in each of the last four seasons, for what that's worth. RMCS has played Millikin, NCC, and NPU pretty regularly, in addition to Rose-Hulman, DePauw, and several of the SLIAC schools. This year the Eagles have eleven games against D3 schools -- NPU, Rose-Hulman, Blackburn (twice), Dallas, Principia (twice), MacMurray, Schreiner, Fontbonne, and UW-Platteville -- on their docket.

Scramble indeed!
After Wisconsin, LaCrosse reneged and backed out of their commitment at the last minute, NCC was really forced to scramble to find a 4th team for its opening weekend tourney. The North Central coaching staff must have called 20-25 schools before being lucky enough to find one that didn't already have a commitment for Nov 16th-17th. And, as Greg notes above, "beggars can't be choosers."

Its interesting to note the LaCrosse schedule shows 25 games scheduled including  one vs Lakeland College on Sat., 11/17, but no game on Fri, the 16th.  Perhaps the boys in LaCrosse already had 24 games scheduled when they committed to a two day, TWO game tourney at North Central on 11/16 & 17, and failed to realize that 24 + 2 = 26, or one game over the NCAA mandated limit of 25??

At any rate, one things for certain. Todd Raridon didn't schedule World Harvest Bible because he wanted to.

[Titan Q]

Lastly, I also don't look for Delp to switch from 2 to 1. He is too good from the 2 spot to risk trying to convert him to a PG. The bet here is that if he was to put his energies both from a physical, and especially a mental perspective into learning a new position, his shooting would suffer. I think Coach G is too crafty to risk that happening.

I agree - despite starting the NIU exhibition at the point, I doubt Delp will see much time there this season.  Just because a 2-guard handles the ball pretty well, doesn't necessarily mean he can play the point effectively.  Playing point seems to be as much about the player's mindset as it does physical skills, and if you don't think like a point-guard and see the floor like one, you're probably not going to be a good point-guard.

IWU has a freshman guard, 6-1 Sean Johnson (Washington H.S.), that compares very favorably to Jordan Delp (I think his upside is actually higher).  Johnson is about the same size and has a similar skill set.  Sean is going to be forced to play the point at the beginning of the year due to injuries to Travis Rosenkranz and Sean Dwyer.  I have noticed in scrimmages how different his game is, and his entire on-court demeanor, when he has to worry about bringing it up the floor and run the offense.  He is a completely different looking player at his natural 2-guard position (where he scored 18 points per game last year on a great Washington team and earned all-state honors.)

Jordan Delp is a good 2-guard and I think we'll see Coach G & Co. let him be one.

PS  Heard a good line just last week.  "'Combo guard' usually means the kid doesn't handle it well enough to be a point, and doesn't shoot it well enough to play the 2."

[Titan Q]

Regarding World Harvest Bible, here is an e-mail that was sent to Greg Sager and I today from an NAIA head coach who is a regular CCIW Chat lurker...

Saw the comments on the CCIW board this morning and I wanted to share my experience with World Harvest. We played them in a JV game about 8-10 years ago. World Harvest was a first year program, so I figured my JV would be able to compete.

We are met by some of the biggest, strongest, most athletic looking men you would ever want to meet (average age had to be close to 30). They were coached by a woman that was previously the head coach at an Ohio D1 (Toledo? Miami?). They rolled us by about 50 and we spent the night at the Columbus ER as one of my guys had a few teeth knocked out. Come to find out a few weeks later that 1 of their players had played 2 years in the CBA—they neglected to mention that they weren't going to follow any amateur status or eligibility rules.

Anyway, I don't know what their act is like today, but you may be surprised with what rolls into the Hanger as you call it.

[AndOne]

Maybe that explains the football blocking dummy (not a person) at practice at NCC this afternoon!           

[martin]

Does NCC have a clue who will show up to represent World Harvest Bible?

This is from their current web page:

Are there any athletic opportunities at World Harvest Bible College?
Intramural sports are available at WHBC, including soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc., as well as open gym twice per week.

This is from their 2003-05 catalog Pg. 72-3:

Intercollegiate Athletics
The WHBC Athletic Department is continuing to develop its premier men's basketball program, which has in three years of competition been singled out for multiple honors, including the National Bible College Athletic Association (NBCAA) Division 1 Runner-up in 2000-2001 and the NBCAA Division 1 Champion in 2001-2002. The Warriors hold membership with the United States Collegiate Athletic Association as well and have earned 3rd place at the USCAA Division 1 tournament in 2002.

For further information, please contact the WHBC Athletic Department at 614-837-1990, ext 322.

[AndOne]

So-----follow through Martin!

You have the number.
Give them a call.
Ask the tough questions.
Then enlighten the rest of us who are waiting with baited breath for the answer to your query.   

NCC is not the bad guy here. They did what they had to in order to fill their last tournament slot. By the time LaCrosse pulled out, schedules for virtually everyone were already set.

[Gregory Sager]

The success that the 3 point shooters from last year (Delp, Brusveen and Swetalla) was mainly the direct result of Drew Wessels breaking down the defense and creating openings for the shooters---As I said before, I don't think that Augie has that type of point guard this year---Pelton may do a good job of running an offense, but he doesn't have the explosiveness off the dribble---I think you may see Delp playing more 1 guard---He is probably their quickest guard off the dribble and he won't have to depend on others to get him the ball in scoring position---A good point guard can make everyone look better---I hope that Pelton is that answer

I think Late may have something here. Wessels didn't make 1st team all conference for nothing. One of the marks of a superior player is that he makes those around him better. I think he was indeed a big reason for Augie's success from 3 point land.

I second that. Good observation, Late Nite.

So-----follow through Martin!

You have the number.
Give them a call.
Ask the tough questions.
Then enlighten the rest of us who are waiting with baited breath for the answer to your query.  

NCC is not the bad guy here. They did what they had to in order to fill their last tournament slot. By the time LaCrosse pulled out, schedules for virtually everyone were already set.

I agree. Todd Raridon is the victim, not the culprit. I just hope for NCC's sake that the Cardinals aren't further made victims on the evening of Nov. 16 -- either because they're facing grown men from World Harvest Bible College who from an eligibility standpoint have no business participating in a college basketball game, or because said WHBC players either intentionally or unintentionally send an NCC player or players to the emergency room.

[Gregory Sager]

North Park played its second and final scrimmage this evening, hosting Benedictine in the crackerbox. The Vikings looked very impressive for the most part, easily beating the Eagles, 37-24 and 44-31. Nick Williams and Jay Alexander each scored 15, while Jason Gordon added 11, Ed Whitaker chipped in 9, an aggressive Joe Capalbo added 8, and Jorge "Gonzo" Gonzalez tallied 7. The Vikings did a great job of controlling the boards, garnering 34 rebounds by my unofficial count. Gonzalez led with 10 caroms, while Williams and Capalbo grabbed 5 apiece.

More fine-tuning remains to be done by NPU, as the guards were frequently caught too far upcourt and Benedictine thus had a lot of easy runout baskets. The Vikings also need to communicate a little better on switches and screens. But for the most part the defense was very solid in the halfcourt, and on offense they easily exposed a pretty green BU team that looks like it's headed for the middle of the pack in this season's NAthCon.

In terms of standouts, I thought that Jay Alexander and Jason Gordon had particularly good nights. Nick Williams, Mike Ventura, and Antonio Stevens gave the NPU coaches pretty much what they will expect from them every night, and Joe Capalbo looked much more energized than he did against Dominican. Jorge Gonzalez continues to improve as the team's inside "x factor" and energy guy. And it was good to see Dan Oziminski out on the floor again, as he gives the Vikings the luxury of an experienced point guard to go along with Bruce Durham and Chris Brown.

The JV half was more of the same, as NPU triumped, 48-38. The JV team did a very nice job of feeding the low post, as Phil Schniedermeier talled 13 points and Glenn Woodside added 11. Ali Tai canned three of four trey attempts to add 9 points to the cause.

North Park fans can look forward to an exciting season of basketball in 2007-08. Even a discriminating connoisseur like Rob Berki is giving this team the thumbs-up. This will be a Vikings squad that will definitely make a trip to the corner of Foster & Kedzie worthwhile.

[cardinalpride]

I agree. Todd Raridon is the victim, not the culprit. I just hope for NCC's sake that the Cardinals aren't further made victims on the evening of Nov. 16 -- either because they're facing grown men from World Harvest Bible College who from an eligibility standpoint have no business participating in a college basketball game, or because said WHBC players either intentionally or unintentionally send an NCC player or players to the emergency room.

It sounds as if NCC has already had their fair share of emergency room visitors.  The total is up to 5 since practice began 2 1/2 weeks ago!